6 ms·

Like sofas, armchairs, refrigerators, washing machines, dishwashers, flat-screen TVs and oak beds? Great idea, but how would you feasibly transport them? The

Like sofas, armchairs, refrigerators, washing machines, dishwashers, flat-screen TVs and oak beds? Great idea, but how would you feasibly transport them? The deliveroo boxes are going to have to increase in size...

bildung 9y ago
Been there, done that :) Just buy a good trailer. You get 10 top notch bikes plus trailer for the price of a car.
majewsky 9y ago
Most of these could be transported on bike trailers. The bed will probably need to be shipped in disassembled form, but then again, I've never seen beds shipped in one piece. That said, there are certainly things that you absolutely have to transport with some sort of automobile. But there's no problem with exempting such transports from a possible car ban.
Heliosmaster 9y ago
In the Netherlands bakfiets (http://img.tweede-hands.net/pics/00/13/08/63/97/3c.jpg?d0cc3157e3 http://img.tweede-hands.net/pics/00/13/08/63/97/3c.jpg?d0cc3...) can be easily used to transport this kind of things. Also, realistically, do you need to transport these things on a daily basis? Can you not rent a (electric) truck whenever you need this kind of things?
- kazen44 9y ago
  Heck, a car in the netherlands is also very, very expensive. Especially if you live in the inner core of a relatively old city, which are not designed for cars and where parking space is at a premium. I'm fairly sure most people working normal office kind of jobs could easily live without a car, especially if cities use that money to make public transport available to more "remote" regions easily. My employer actually used this reasoning and has an office next to the train station, which makes traveling with public transport from other cities a breeze and prevents the company from having to pay massive fees for parking space.
  - IkmoIkmo 9y ago
    Western-European capital city here. I can indeed absolutely get-by without a car, as I have for literally all my life. There are certainly instances where a car is necessary, or sufficiently convenient. For example, I rent a truck when I move homes or get new furniture, and I get a taxi after surgery or a night out, and rent a car when doing something time/convenience-sensitive like hopping between locations on elaborate wedding days that involve a ceremony, food, drinks and after-party all around the city. But all in all, about 5% of my trips need to happen by personal vehicle, at most. Everything else is can be done via public transport or bicycles. Nowadays we have ride-sharing and electric 'public transportation' mini-cars available that you can rent for 15 minutes or a few days. The costs are about twice that of a normal car, but as I only use it in 5% of my trips my total expenses are barely affected, while giving me the convenience of a car when necessary. There's no real reason to keep a personal car myself. Actually I've never owned one, but it's become easier and more convenient over time. Borrowing a car from a friend or traveling far to a car rental, or expenses of renting aren't problems anymore. Having kids or working very far from home changes the incentives quite a bit. But I think there's a lot of value in optimising for distance. As a species we spend way too much time on mundane travel, even to the point of inefficiency. I've seen people chase a job that pays $300 more for $250 in self-paid traveling costs per month. These are people who will pay $10 for delivery of groceries instead of spending 30 minutes to go to the store, but are willing to travel 20 hours more each month for a $50 net benefit.
    - kazen44 9y ago
      > But I think there's a lot of value in optimising for distance. i definetly agree to this, spending time on travel is pure waste. One of the best decisions for my personal health and my career was getting a job which is located 10 minutes from my home by bicycle. The amount of free time you have left because you spend a lot less time traveling should not be understated. Also, i find commuting very boring and stressfull, and living close to work has done wonders for my mental health aswell.
- the-dude 9y ago
  No bakfiets, but fietsaanhanger : https://hollandbikeshop.com/fietskarren/bagage-fietskarren/ https://hollandbikeshop.com/fietskarren/bagage-fietskarren/ English : bicycle trailer.
CalRobert 9y ago
Yes, actually. All of those things can be transported by cargo bike. There is a place for automobiles, and vans, in cities (ambulances come to mind) - just like there is a place for helicopters, but what we have now is a gross distortion that came as a result of more or less legalizing killing people with your car (as long as it was an accident) and giving people ample free asphalt and parking.
- TomMarius 9y ago
  What do you mean, free asphalt and parking? I'm paying huge taxes and this stuff is built from taxes. Edit: To the people downvoting: We're talking about Europe. The US apparently works differently, but that's not how it's in the EU.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    You don't pay enough taxes to cover the cost of land in a big city. See for example this: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/business/economy/15view.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/business/economy/15view.ht...
  - majewsky 9y ago
    Grandparent probably doesn't mean "free", but "sunk cost".
    - CalRobert 9y ago
      I mean free at point of delivery. People using them don't necessarily pay for them (if I drive from SF to San Diego, I pay nothing to LA for the use of their roads, which doesn't really seem fair, though admittedly most of that drive would be on Interstate) I'd have no problem with tolled roads. Funny enough I would _love_ tolled bike paths - I'd pay several grand a year for them willingly - if I could even get them. But I can't because we give roads to cars for free and that can't be questioned. For that matter I'd love to lease some of the park and ride spots near transit so I could build an apartment on them (they're nearly free) but apparently I'm not allowed to do that. I can't even use them to park a mobile home permanently. How is that fair?
petecox 9y ago
Ask your great great grandparents - horses! In the 19th century, cemeteries had railway stations for transporting the dead by steam train.
megy 9y ago
Oh no, people might actually buy less things! Do we need to have personal cars just for delivery of those items? Or can we have trucks?

bildung 9y ago

Been there, done that :) Just buy a good trailer. You get 10 top notch bikes plus trailer for the price of a car.

majewsky 9y ago

Most of these could be transported on bike trailers. The bed will probably need to be shipped in disassembled form, but then again, I've never seen beds shipped in one piece. That said, there are certainly things that you absolutely have to transport with some sort of automobile. But there's no problem with exempting such transports from a possible car ban.

Heliosmaster 9y ago

In the Netherlands bakfiets (http://img.tweede-hands.net/pics/00/13/08/63/97/3c.jpg?d0cc3157e3 http://img.tweede-hands.net/pics/00/13/08/63/97/3c.jpg?d0cc3...) can be easily used to transport this kind of things. Also, realistically, do you need to transport these things on a daily basis? Can you not rent a (electric) truck whenever you need this kind of things?

kazen44 9y ago
Heck, a car in the netherlands is also very, very expensive. Especially if you live in the inner core of a relatively old city, which are not designed for cars and where parking space is at a premium. I'm fairly sure most people working normal office kind of jobs could easily live without a car, especially if cities use that money to make public transport available to more "remote" regions easily. My employer actually used this reasoning and has an office next to the train station, which makes traveling with public transport from other cities a breeze and prevents the company from having to pay massive fees for parking space.
- IkmoIkmo 9y ago
  Western-European capital city here. I can indeed absolutely get-by without a car, as I have for literally all my life. There are certainly instances where a car is necessary, or sufficiently convenient. For example, I rent a truck when I move homes or get new furniture, and I get a taxi after surgery or a night out, and rent a car when doing something time/convenience-sensitive like hopping between locations on elaborate wedding days that involve a ceremony, food, drinks and after-party all around the city. But all in all, about 5% of my trips need to happen by personal vehicle, at most. Everything else is can be done via public transport or bicycles. Nowadays we have ride-sharing and electric 'public transportation' mini-cars available that you can rent for 15 minutes or a few days. The costs are about twice that of a normal car, but as I only use it in 5% of my trips my total expenses are barely affected, while giving me the convenience of a car when necessary. There's no real reason to keep a personal car myself. Actually I've never owned one, but it's become easier and more convenient over time. Borrowing a car from a friend or traveling far to a car rental, or expenses of renting aren't problems anymore. Having kids or working very far from home changes the incentives quite a bit. But I think there's a lot of value in optimising for distance. As a species we spend way too much time on mundane travel, even to the point of inefficiency. I've seen people chase a job that pays $300 more for $250 in self-paid traveling costs per month. These are people who will pay $10 for delivery of groceries instead of spending 30 minutes to go to the store, but are willing to travel 20 hours more each month for a $50 net benefit.
  - kazen44 9y ago
    > But I think there's a lot of value in optimising for distance. i definetly agree to this, spending time on travel is pure waste. One of the best decisions for my personal health and my career was getting a job which is located 10 minutes from my home by bicycle. The amount of free time you have left because you spend a lot less time traveling should not be understated. Also, i find commuting very boring and stressfull, and living close to work has done wonders for my mental health aswell.
the-dude 9y ago
No bakfiets, but fietsaanhanger : https://hollandbikeshop.com/fietskarren/bagage-fietskarren/ https://hollandbikeshop.com/fietskarren/bagage-fietskarren/ English : bicycle trailer.

CalRobert 9y ago

Yes, actually. All of those things can be transported by cargo bike. There is a place for automobiles, and vans, in cities (ambulances come to mind) - just like there is a place for helicopters, but what we have now is a gross distortion that came as a result of more or less legalizing killing people with your car (as long as it was an accident) and giving people ample free asphalt and parking.

TomMarius 9y ago
What do you mean, free asphalt and parking? I'm paying huge taxes and this stuff is built from taxes. Edit: To the people downvoting: We're talking about Europe. The US apparently works differently, but that's not how it's in the EU.
- adrianN 9y ago
  You don't pay enough taxes to cover the cost of land in a big city. See for example this: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/business/economy/15view.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/business/economy/15view.ht...
- majewsky 9y ago
  Grandparent probably doesn't mean "free", but "sunk cost".
  - CalRobert 9y ago
    I mean free at point of delivery. People using them don't necessarily pay for them (if I drive from SF to San Diego, I pay nothing to LA for the use of their roads, which doesn't really seem fair, though admittedly most of that drive would be on Interstate) I'd have no problem with tolled roads. Funny enough I would _love_ tolled bike paths - I'd pay several grand a year for them willingly - if I could even get them. But I can't because we give roads to cars for free and that can't be questioned. For that matter I'd love to lease some of the park and ride spots near transit so I could build an apartment on them (they're nearly free) but apparently I'm not allowed to do that. I can't even use them to park a mobile home permanently. How is that fair?

petecox 9y ago

Ask your great great grandparents - horses! In the 19th century, cemeteries had railway stations for transporting the dead by steam train.

megy 9y ago

Oh no, people might actually buy less things! Do we need to have personal cars just for delivery of those items? Or can we have trucks?