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Having lived in both SOMA and the Mission, I wholeheartedly disagree. The vast majority of people I met at coffee shops, restaurants or bars in the city worked

by mdolon 9y ago

Having lived in both SOMA and the Mission, I wholeheartedly disagree. The vast majority of people I met at coffee shops, restaurants or bars in the city worked in tech. Living in Manhattan (East Village) and Brooklyn provided a completely different experience. It was a rare to meet people who work in tech. In both circumstances, I haven't been going out of my way to try to meet people in any specific industry.

randomdata 9y ago
> Having lived in both SOMA and the Mission, I wholeheartedly disagree. No need to rely on anecdotes though. According to San Francisco’s Controller’s Office, a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry[1]. That is an unquestionably small minority of the overall population. If the people you have met predominantly worked in tech, it is likely due to a bubble you created yourself. Perhaps, for example, the majority of the population outside of tech cannot afford to spend time at those coffee shops and restaurants? [1] https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/why-san-francisco-isnt-the-new-new-york/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/why-san-francisco-...
- mbesto 9y ago
  > the majority of the population outside of tech cannot afford to spend time at those coffee shops and restaurants? That's probably the parent's point - your likely to see more people in your cohort in NYC that don't work in tech then those that do. > According to San Francisco’s Controller’s Office, a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry[1]. That is an unquestionably small minority of the overall population. SF is just one part of the bay area. Head down to PAMPA and MV/Cupertino where the big employers are and I'd be willing to bet that % is much higher.
- toephu2 9y ago
  "a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry" That was in 2013. 5 years ago. That article doesn't provide a source for that number either, it simply quotes the chief economist for San Francisco’s Controller’s Office who also doesn't provide a source. I'm sure the number is much higher now.
- mdolon 9y ago
  Sorry, I was simply sharing my own experience and point of view. Please do treat it as such. You can also say I created my own bubble by choosing to live in SOMA and the Mission (or anywhere downtown SF in general). I'm just sharing my experience of encountering mostly tech employees in those neighborhoods. If you've experienced otherwise, kudos to you! :)
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  Now what % of people between the ages of, say 22-30 in SF work in tech? A bit more than 6%. You aren't "creating a bubble" simply by hanging out with people your own age or liking certain foods or cafes. The fact is that in NYC there are plenty of young working professionals who are not in tech, who you will meet without having to go out of your way to alter you own interests.
  - randomdata 9y ago
    > You aren't "creating a bubble" simply by hanging out with people your own age or liking certain foods or cafes. If that is not the epitome of a bubble, what is? I completely understand why someone might find themselves in that kind of bubble, and even like it that way, but that is not the same as the bubble not existing. I expect you will find that 22-30 year olds in SF themselves are a minority.
    - CydeWeys 9y ago
      People have always hung out with their own age cohort. This isn't anything special or unique to SF, and it doesn't "make it a bubble". What makes it a bubble is that that age cohort in SF is so tech-focused, in a way that it isn't in other cities. So when you do the perfectly natural thing of hanging out with other people your own age in, say, NYC, you get a variety of professions and types of people. When you do it in SF, you end up with mostly techies.
      - randomdata 9y ago
        > People have always hung out with their own age cohort. That does not mean they are not living in a bubble. There are always people in other age cohorts that they could associate with. Nobody is saying that bubbles are not natural. You find them everywhere in nature! It is indeed natural to be in a bubble with your own age cohort, but remains a bubble of your own making. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from popping that bubble and exposing yourself to people in other age groups and careers. After all, those outside the bubble represent the majority of the population.
- JackFr 9y ago
  > a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry I'm sure many people are cooks, janitors, bus drivers and the like and I'm sure a many people work for the the state, county or city (especially including healthcare). Any city needs services both private and municipal -- but they are not the driver of the economic engine. I imagine that 6% would be much higher if we excluded non-service, non-municipal jobs.
- timr 9y ago
  "If the people you have met predominantly worked in tech, it is likely due to a bubble you created yourself. Perhaps, for example, the majority of the population outside of tech cannot afford to spend time at those coffee shops and restaurants?" And yet, since moving from SF (after nearly a decade) to NYC, I can confirm the OP's observation that I rarely encounter people who work at tech companies, anywhere in the city. Regardless of whether or not you think we're creating a bubble for ourselves by how we live our lives, the reality is that the bubble is different in New York. And it's not like there aren't tech workers here: there are just a lot more of other kinds of people. For me, personally, it's refreshing. San Francisco has descended into a form of groupthink self-parody that is uninspiring for people who like to make new things.
  - randomdata 9y ago
    > the reality is that the bubble is different in New York. I think that goes without saying. 6% is a minority, but 6% all working in the same industry remains significant. Where I currently live one of the largest industries makes up about 3% of the workforce. And even at that lower rate it already feels like everyone I meet works in that particular industry. Just imagine what 6% is like. I am not at all surprised that it feels like nobody does anything other than tech. 6% is staggering! Nobody denies that SF (and the Valley in general) is heavily weighted towards tech professionals. With 6% of the population involved, they are going to be everywhere. However, they still only make up a minority share of the entire population. There should be no shortage of opportunity to find people doing other things.
- savagedata 9y ago
  I couldn't find a more recent source (this is from 2013), but it claims that 12% of SF (San Francisco-San Mateo-Redwood City, CA) jobs are in "high tech" and 29% of San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA jobs. My guess is the difference between the two sources is that yours is looking at the whole population, which would include children and retired folks. Close to a third of jobs in one region being in tech is an insanely high number, and it's no wonder that people would feel that the Bay Area is lacking diversity. https://web.archive.org/web/20130308072135/http://www.bayareaeconomy.org/media/files/pdf/TechReport.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20130308072135/http://www.bayare...

by mdolon 9y ago

randomdata 9y ago

> Having lived in both SOMA and the Mission, I wholeheartedly disagree. No need to rely on anecdotes though. According to San Francisco’s Controller’s Office, a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry[1]. That is an unquestionably small minority of the overall population. If the people you have met predominantly worked in tech, it is likely due to a bubble you created yourself. Perhaps, for example, the majority of the population outside of tech cannot afford to spend time at those coffee shops and restaurants? [1] https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/why-san-francisco-isnt-the-new-new-york/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/why-san-francisco-...

mbesto 9y ago
> the majority of the population outside of tech cannot afford to spend time at those coffee shops and restaurants? That's probably the parent's point - your likely to see more people in your cohort in NYC that don't work in tech then those that do. > According to San Francisco’s Controller’s Office, a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry[1]. That is an unquestionably small minority of the overall population. SF is just one part of the bay area. Head down to PAMPA and MV/Cupertino where the big employers are and I'd be willing to bet that % is much higher.
toephu2 9y ago
"a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry" That was in 2013. 5 years ago. That article doesn't provide a source for that number either, it simply quotes the chief economist for San Francisco’s Controller’s Office who also doesn't provide a source. I'm sure the number is much higher now.
mdolon 9y ago
Sorry, I was simply sharing my own experience and point of view. Please do treat it as such. You can also say I created my own bubble by choosing to live in SOMA and the Mission (or anywhere downtown SF in general). I'm just sharing my experience of encountering mostly tech employees in those neighborhoods. If you've experienced otherwise, kudos to you! :)
CydeWeys 9y ago
Now what % of people between the ages of, say 22-30 in SF work in tech? A bit more than 6%. You aren't "creating a bubble" simply by hanging out with people your own age or liking certain foods or cafes. The fact is that in NYC there are plenty of young working professionals who are not in tech, who you will meet without having to go out of your way to alter you own interests.
- randomdata 9y ago
  > You aren't "creating a bubble" simply by hanging out with people your own age or liking certain foods or cafes. If that is not the epitome of a bubble, what is? I completely understand why someone might find themselves in that kind of bubble, and even like it that way, but that is not the same as the bubble not existing. I expect you will find that 22-30 year olds in SF themselves are a minority.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    People have always hung out with their own age cohort. This isn't anything special or unique to SF, and it doesn't "make it a bubble". What makes it a bubble is that that age cohort in SF is so tech-focused, in a way that it isn't in other cities. So when you do the perfectly natural thing of hanging out with other people your own age in, say, NYC, you get a variety of professions and types of people. When you do it in SF, you end up with mostly techies.
    - randomdata 9y ago
      > People have always hung out with their own age cohort. That does not mean they are not living in a bubble. There are always people in other age cohorts that they could associate with. Nobody is saying that bubbles are not natural. You find them everywhere in nature! It is indeed natural to be in a bubble with your own age cohort, but remains a bubble of your own making. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from popping that bubble and exposing yourself to people in other age groups and careers. After all, those outside the bubble represent the majority of the population.
JackFr 9y ago
> a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry I'm sure many people are cooks, janitors, bus drivers and the like and I'm sure a many people work for the the state, county or city (especially including healthcare). Any city needs services both private and municipal -- but they are not the driver of the economic engine. I imagine that 6% would be much higher if we excluded non-service, non-municipal jobs.
timr 9y ago
"If the people you have met predominantly worked in tech, it is likely due to a bubble you created yourself. Perhaps, for example, the majority of the population outside of tech cannot afford to spend time at those coffee shops and restaurants?" And yet, since moving from SF (after nearly a decade) to NYC, I can confirm the OP's observation that I rarely encounter people who work at tech companies, anywhere in the city. Regardless of whether or not you think we're creating a bubble for ourselves by how we live our lives, the reality is that the bubble is different in New York. And it's not like there aren't tech workers here: there are just a lot more of other kinds of people. For me, personally, it's refreshing. San Francisco has descended into a form of groupthink self-parody that is uninspiring for people who like to make new things.
- randomdata 9y ago
  > the reality is that the bubble is different in New York. I think that goes without saying. 6% is a minority, but 6% all working in the same industry remains significant. Where I currently live one of the largest industries makes up about 3% of the workforce. And even at that lower rate it already feels like everyone I meet works in that particular industry. Just imagine what 6% is like. I am not at all surprised that it feels like nobody does anything other than tech. 6% is staggering! Nobody denies that SF (and the Valley in general) is heavily weighted towards tech professionals. With 6% of the population involved, they are going to be everywhere. However, they still only make up a minority share of the entire population. There should be no shortage of opportunity to find people doing other things.
savagedata 9y ago
I couldn't find a more recent source (this is from 2013), but it claims that 12% of SF (San Francisco-San Mateo-Redwood City, CA) jobs are in "high tech" and 29% of San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA jobs. My guess is the difference between the two sources is that yours is looking at the whole population, which would include children and retired folks. Close to a third of jobs in one region being in tech is an insanely high number, and it's no wonder that people would feel that the Bay Area is lacking diversity. https://web.archive.org/web/20130308072135/http://www.bayareaeconomy.org/media/files/pdf/TechReport.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20130308072135/http://www.bayare...