6 ms·

Same here man. I'm getting sick and tired of immigration in this country. The whole country is worried about illegal aliens and no one cares about us. And this

by rvo 9y ago

Same here man. I'm getting sick and tired of immigration in this country. The whole country is worried about illegal aliens and no one cares about us. And this is not new with trump. Been on h1b for years. It just got worse over time under obama. Americans dont care about indians. Either we don't get our voices heard too much, or we are just a slightly wrong shade of brown ("people of color" - ha!). Go care about illegals.... I'm just tired of dealing with immigration and then getting shat on by "pro immigration" people who dont care about Indians (and frankly Chinese). To my american friends, you dont realize how racist the immigration system is currently. Forget refugees and "muslim bans". Those are really nothing compared to how Indians and Chinese are treated. I'll show you: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2018/visa-bulletin-for-march-2018.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v... Do a search for "FINAL ACTION DATES FOR EMPLOYMENT-BASED PREFERENCE CASES" See that table. There are a few salient points: 1. That table shows where the queue pointer is right now. "C" means at the head of the queue (no entries, everything being processed). If it is a date, that is the date that is currently being processed (for all intents and purposes). 2. Notice the special columns for the different nationalities. So they discriminate based on national origin. But, only 5 to 7 countries are special cased. Everyone else (including all refugee countries, muslim countries, etc) fall under "Rest of World" ("All chargeability areas.."). 3. Now notice the INDIA column. The date is 01Jan07 for EB3. This means, for someone with a Bachelors degree, they have to process people who applied 11 years ago. Let that sink in. No other race has to face this discrimination. EB2 (masters or phd) is not much better either. You have to be a genius (EB1) to get a greencard 'now' without a queue ... at the same level as a Bachelors graduate from Iran, Saudi, Somalia, whereever. . Anyway, hopefully you can empathize a little bit with Indians and Chinese who did things by the book and stop focussing so much on illegals.

indemnity 9y ago
If there was zero discrimination no-one from any other country would stand a chance due to the sheer population size of India & China. Would have thought this was obvious. It’s fairer to the rest of us.
- bradleyjg 9y ago
  That's not true. People from every country would have the same chance. Petitions would be processed in the order they were received regardless of nationality. How would that be unfair to anyone?
  - suryacom 9y ago
    It is unfair because it doesn't allow someone to jump the line. A totally unfair system (sarcasm).
  - rvo 9y ago
    Trust me man, you haven't seen the ugly side of many liberal "pro immigration" folks. At least the guy you are responding to is being honest.
  - uiri 9y ago
    There is no "order they are received" for H-1B. You have to apply on the first of April and literally win a lottery. If you remove the national origin quotas (it has little to do with race and everything to do with where you were born), then it would be the exact same process for green cards except you only have a limited number of chances before you cap out the time on your visa and get sent back. How is that a better, less capricious system than the current one for anyone who isn't Indian or Chinese? The US political system gives disproportionate power to states with smaller population. The US immigration system is disproportionately more difficult for countries with lots of applicants. That's what the US looks at as fair - giving each state or country a fair shot, not each individual.
    - bradleyjg 9y ago
      > If you remove the national origin quotas (it has little to do with race and everything to do with where you were born) Yeah, those things aren't correlated at all. Come on. > then it would be the exact same process for green cards except you only have a limited number of chances before you cap out the time on your visa and get sent back. No it wouldn't. There's a different system in place for permanent visas than for temporary ones. Viz. a waiting list. The grandparent post linked the visa bulletin which explains how it works. You have the tools at hand to educate yourself, there's no excuse for ignorance. > How is that a better, less capricious system than the current one for anyone who isn't Indian or Chinese? Because human being are human beings, not 1 billionth of India or China. It is a bedrock principle of contemporary liberalism (small l) that people ought be to treated as individuals. The remnant of the pre-1965 racist national origin system is a disgusting anomaly of a worse time. > The US political system gives disproportionate power to states with smaller population. The US immigration system is disproportionately more difficult for countries with lots of applicants. That's what the US looks at as fair - giving each state or country a fair shot, not each individual. One terribly unjust system originally put in place to protect slavery doesn't define the United States' entire notion of fairness. In any event it is nonsensical to talk about giving a country a shot. Countries aren't going to immigrate to the US, people are.
taa4993 9y ago
If you're sick and tired of it and think the system is "racist", why not leave? I certainly wouldn't want to live in a country in which I felt that negatively about. Everyone seems to think they have an implicit right to live in the United States. I can see how considering the immigration policy for the last several decades has been entirely based around letting in anyone that can undercut salaries. Big business controls the borders!
- techsupporter 9y ago
  > Everyone seems to think they have an implicit right to live in the United States. I disagree with this statement, or at least your belief around the sentiment. To me, the angst seems to come from the United States putting out a welcome mat saying "please, come here and enrich our economy" but then, once someone does arrive, he or she is treated with near-contempt, especially if the person is from the "wrong" country like India or China or Russia or basically anywhere not western Europe, Australia, or Japan. Debate the number of arrivals or permissions to be given all we want. That's fine and reasonable. But once someone has taken up the United States on its offer to have the person relocate halfway across the globe, TREAT THEM WITH RESPECT. My spouse is a green card holder and has been for many years (and is not a green card holder by virtue of being married to me). If any US citizen had to regularly deal with the USCIS, it would be disbanded within a week. The IRS is more warm and inviting and has better understood rules and processes. And my spouse has the benefit of not being from the "wrong" country but, still, even doing something as simple as renewing a green card involves a trek to the most depressing-looking office building on the planet, a bag and person search that rivals going to an airport, and meeting with a dour clerk who wants my spouse to be in the country almost as little as the clerk wants to be at work that day. That's just for someone who's already made it through almost all of the hurdles of the U.S. immigration system. To be here on a "temporary" visa like H1B or on TN status is even worse since one wrong word from an immigration officer means you have ten days to self-deport or ICE is coming for you. It's one thing to say "potential immigrants keep out." It's quite another to abuse the immigrants who have arrived until they give up and quit the country. (To establish that I'm not ranting because I'm caught by this: I am a natural-born citizen of the United States who, through one parent, has a line of ancestry that traces back to the Mayflower. And I think our immigration system is obnoxious.)

by rvo 9y ago

indemnity 9y ago

If there was zero discrimination no-one from any other country would stand a chance due to the sheer population size of India & China. Would have thought this was obvious. It’s fairer to the rest of us.

bradleyjg 9y ago
That's not true. People from every country would have the same chance. Petitions would be processed in the order they were received regardless of nationality. How would that be unfair to anyone?
- suryacom 9y ago
  It is unfair because it doesn't allow someone to jump the line. A totally unfair system (sarcasm).
- rvo 9y ago
  Trust me man, you haven't seen the ugly side of many liberal "pro immigration" folks. At least the guy you are responding to is being honest.
- uiri 9y ago
  There is no "order they are received" for H-1B. You have to apply on the first of April and literally win a lottery. If you remove the national origin quotas (it has little to do with race and everything to do with where you were born), then it would be the exact same process for green cards except you only have a limited number of chances before you cap out the time on your visa and get sent back. How is that a better, less capricious system than the current one for anyone who isn't Indian or Chinese? The US political system gives disproportionate power to states with smaller population. The US immigration system is disproportionately more difficult for countries with lots of applicants. That's what the US looks at as fair - giving each state or country a fair shot, not each individual.
  - bradleyjg 9y ago
    > If you remove the national origin quotas (it has little to do with race and everything to do with where you were born) Yeah, those things aren't correlated at all. Come on. > then it would be the exact same process for green cards except you only have a limited number of chances before you cap out the time on your visa and get sent back. No it wouldn't. There's a different system in place for permanent visas than for temporary ones. Viz. a waiting list. The grandparent post linked the visa bulletin which explains how it works. You have the tools at hand to educate yourself, there's no excuse for ignorance. > How is that a better, less capricious system than the current one for anyone who isn't Indian or Chinese? Because human being are human beings, not 1 billionth of India or China. It is a bedrock principle of contemporary liberalism (small l) that people ought be to treated as individuals. The remnant of the pre-1965 racist national origin system is a disgusting anomaly of a worse time. > The US political system gives disproportionate power to states with smaller population. The US immigration system is disproportionately more difficult for countries with lots of applicants. That's what the US looks at as fair - giving each state or country a fair shot, not each individual. One terribly unjust system originally put in place to protect slavery doesn't define the United States' entire notion of fairness. In any event it is nonsensical to talk about giving a country a shot. Countries aren't going to immigrate to the US, people are.

taa4993 9y ago

If you're sick and tired of it and think the system is "racist", why not leave? I certainly wouldn't want to live in a country in which I felt that negatively about. Everyone seems to think they have an implicit right to live in the United States. I can see how considering the immigration policy for the last several decades has been entirely based around letting in anyone that can undercut salaries. Big business controls the borders!

techsupporter 9y ago
> Everyone seems to think they have an implicit right to live in the United States. I disagree with this statement, or at least your belief around the sentiment. To me, the angst seems to come from the United States putting out a welcome mat saying "please, come here and enrich our economy" but then, once someone does arrive, he or she is treated with near-contempt, especially if the person is from the "wrong" country like India or China or Russia or basically anywhere not western Europe, Australia, or Japan. Debate the number of arrivals or permissions to be given all we want. That's fine and reasonable. But once someone has taken up the United States on its offer to have the person relocate halfway across the globe, TREAT THEM WITH RESPECT. My spouse is a green card holder and has been for many years (and is not a green card holder by virtue of being married to me). If any US citizen had to regularly deal with the USCIS, it would be disbanded within a week. The IRS is more warm and inviting and has better understood rules and processes. And my spouse has the benefit of not being from the "wrong" country but, still, even doing something as simple as renewing a green card involves a trek to the most depressing-looking office building on the planet, a bag and person search that rivals going to an airport, and meeting with a dour clerk who wants my spouse to be in the country almost as little as the clerk wants to be at work that day. That's just for someone who's already made it through almost all of the hurdles of the U.S. immigration system. To be here on a "temporary" visa like H1B or on TN status is even worse since one wrong word from an immigration officer means you have ten days to self-deport or ICE is coming for you. It's one thing to say "potential immigrants keep out." It's quite another to abuse the immigrants who have arrived until they give up and quit the country. (To establish that I'm not ranting because I'm caught by this: I am a natural-born citizen of the United States who, through one parent, has a line of ancestry that traces back to the Mayflower. And I think our immigration system is obnoxious.)