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Speaking as a Chinese citizen, I'd say most people already use local apps/services for almost everything, so having Apple moving servers to China won't practica

Speaking as a Chinese citizen, I'd say most people already use local apps/services for almost everything, so having Apple moving servers to China won't practically have any impact on "privacy" or "human rights concerns", at least to vast majority of the population. I really appreciate that Apple is finally moving their servers to China as downloading apps and updates from App Store has been painfully slow. iPhone has lost quite some market shares to local brands like Huawei, Xiaomi in the past few years, and more people are feeling local brands knows what people needs better. Having a faster service might actually help bringing back some market share.

tonylinn80 9y ago
Totally agree! I would have already switched if I hadn't bought so many iOS apps.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
As of December 2017, iOS had around 19.7% of China's mobile web browsing market. That is unexpectedly huge, is there a large enough middle class to support that many iPhones? https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-in-china/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held... Sales in China have been expanding, though it goes up and down with new iPhone releases: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/13/apples-new-iphone-8-and-x-are-getting-chinese-android-users-to-defect/#3213bf6b4b98 https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/13/apples-ne... Samsung has absolutely gotten killed in China recently, but I don't think Apple has.
- echevil 9y ago
  It’s not killed for sure, but it used to have bigger market share
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Not according to the forbes article, but that is indicating sales in quarter rather than overall marketshare (Apple sold more phones than Xiaomi in Q4 17, see https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/25/chinas-smartphone-market-is-no-longer-growing/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/25/chinas-smartphone-market-i...). Apple is not doing poorly in China by any economic measure, but ya they don't sell many $200 Xiaomi/Huawei phones. I'm sure that Apple wins consistently based on phone sales revenue, even if they trail in total units sold.
    - tonylinn80 9y ago
      Apple got some good number with iPhoneX launch it seems, after several years' of decline in market share. They're no where close to getting killed though. The fact it's moving servers to China is most likely going to have positive effect on their sales, not negative.
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        The X was basically designed for China, you can’t show off with a design that is 3 generations old already! Apple didn’t bother updating their ID for 3 years (6, 6s, 7), which is why sales were so tepid in China for the last two years. The X fixed that. The effect of iCloud moving will be mostly neutral. As long as WeChat continues to work on iPhone, whatever iCloud does won’t be very significant. I doubt most iPhone users in china even know what iCloud is.
    - dis-sys 9y ago
      it depends on your definition of market share - whether it is quarterly shipment or % of phones on carrier networks. apple devices are a few times more expensive than say Xiaomi, they thus stay in people's pocket for much longer. for shipment data, Apple's figure is not that fancy any more, they count for only 8% of the shipment in Q2 2017. http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-and-samsung-are-losing-market-share-in-china-2017-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-and-samsung-are-losing-...
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        It does fall and rise on any quarter given apple’s predictable release schedule. Still, 20% sustained marketshare for China at the price they are selling compared to local competitors is quite the feat.
        dis-sys 9y ago
        Apple shipped 18% of phones worldwide, but when it comes to the Chinese market, it counts only 8%. You need a lots of explanations if you refuse to acknowledge the obvious here. https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3859963 https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3859963 Before start to waste your time, the 8% shipment in China figure was >14% just 24 months ago. https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/11/8584277/smartphone-shipments-china-market-share-apple https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/11/8584277/smartphone-shipme... To give you some extra details - I live in downtown Shanghai, as of writing, several months after IPhone X's release, I have not even seen the IPhone X yet as not any single one of my families, friends or colleagues has switched to that.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
rqs 9y ago
> I'd say most people already use local apps/services for almost everything, so having Apple moving servers to China won't practically have any impact on "privacy" or "human rights concerns" Does this mean anything? You also breathe polluted air like "most people", do you want new fresh air then? The reason of "__INSERT ACTION HERE__ won't practically have any impact on 'privacy' or 'human rights concerns'" is because "most people" unaware the importance of their privacy, NOT because their privacy is not important. So, their is a choice to make: To make people understand the importance of their privacy; OR, continue selling this unawareness (to make people ignorant). Which way you go?
- tonylinn80 9y ago
  Whichever way, it doesn't matter that much. At least where Apple wants to put their server makes no difference. It's not that we are "unaware" of anything, we just don't feel the same way about privacy (and many other western values as well). Not that they're bad, we just don't believe they're so important. Sure you think you "know the importance of privacy", but that's rather just an opinion, not a fact. In fact, another apparent trend in China is that people who have been studying and living in US for some time tends to become more agreeable with Chinese government afterwards.
  - cromwellian 9y ago
    You'll feel different the first time the "social credit" system ends up denying you a loan because of something you said in a private message. Or you'd feel real different if you were a Uighur who lived in Xinjiang. Right now, thanks to a growing economy, no one cares about rocking the boat, or what the government does. That will all change when China experiences its first deep recession, and like the US, the government will have no choice but to stoke dangerous levels of nationalism to deflect anger away from it, while ratcheting up the amount of control it has.
    - tonylinn80 9y ago
      The current credit systems in China works very, very differently from what the western media describes. Major commercial systems like "Zhemaxinyong" are actually way more transparent than US credit system. You get to see a lot of the details about what's impacting your score at all time, and you have lots of control on where do you want to share your score to. The official "social credit" system that the government wants to build is still at a very early stage right now, and it'll be no where close to what the western media imagined (or rather, hoped) The fairy tales about Chinese social credit system denying loans because of private messages are malicious wishes of western media or Chinese activists at most
drdaeman 9y ago
Here in Russia we have a (somewhat niche) meme "we've only won" (keeping the good look to the bad play, typically used ironically). Each time our wise government protects us from something unnecessary or dangerous (like ban on European dairy products or LinkedIn storing data abroad) we're only winning from this, as almost no one needed that anyway, and that now our own positions are even stronger, etc. I can't help myself but find very close resemblance here. ;) Just saying.
ksec 9y ago
Similar finding here. Lost quite some market shares is what we "felt" was happening around out circles, although the stats usually tells a slightly different story. Especially when you are suppose to be using Chinese Brand if you are in business and have any relationship to political circles. And may be given a lot of these phones are likely being used to do App Store Reviews, ranks, Gaming levels, etc. May be that is why we see them less around us but sales figure tells a different story.

tonylinn80 9y ago

Totally agree! I would have already switched if I hadn't bought so many iOS apps.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

As of December 2017, iOS had around 19.7% of China's mobile web browsing market. That is unexpectedly huge, is there a large enough middle class to support that many iPhones? https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-in-china/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held... Sales in China have been expanding, though it goes up and down with new iPhone releases: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/13/apples-new-iphone-8-and-x-are-getting-chinese-android-users-to-defect/#3213bf6b4b98 https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/13/apples-ne... Samsung has absolutely gotten killed in China recently, but I don't think Apple has.

echevil 9y ago
It’s not killed for sure, but it used to have bigger market share
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Not according to the forbes article, but that is indicating sales in quarter rather than overall marketshare (Apple sold more phones than Xiaomi in Q4 17, see https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/25/chinas-smartphone-market-is-no-longer-growing/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/25/chinas-smartphone-market-i...). Apple is not doing poorly in China by any economic measure, but ya they don't sell many $200 Xiaomi/Huawei phones. I'm sure that Apple wins consistently based on phone sales revenue, even if they trail in total units sold.
  - tonylinn80 9y ago
    Apple got some good number with iPhoneX launch it seems, after several years' of decline in market share. They're no where close to getting killed though. The fact it's moving servers to China is most likely going to have positive effect on their sales, not negative.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      The X was basically designed for China, you can’t show off with a design that is 3 generations old already! Apple didn’t bother updating their ID for 3 years (6, 6s, 7), which is why sales were so tepid in China for the last two years. The X fixed that. The effect of iCloud moving will be mostly neutral. As long as WeChat continues to work on iPhone, whatever iCloud does won’t be very significant. I doubt most iPhone users in china even know what iCloud is.
  - dis-sys 9y ago
    it depends on your definition of market share - whether it is quarterly shipment or % of phones on carrier networks. apple devices are a few times more expensive than say Xiaomi, they thus stay in people's pocket for much longer. for shipment data, Apple's figure is not that fancy any more, they count for only 8% of the shipment in Q2 2017. http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-and-samsung-are-losing-market-share-in-china-2017-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-and-samsung-are-losing-...
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      It does fall and rise on any quarter given apple’s predictable release schedule. Still, 20% sustained marketshare for China at the price they are selling compared to local competitors is quite the feat.
      - dis-sys 9y ago
        Apple shipped 18% of phones worldwide, but when it comes to the Chinese market, it counts only 8%. You need a lots of explanations if you refuse to acknowledge the obvious here. https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3859963 https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3859963 Before start to waste your time, the 8% shipment in China figure was >14% just 24 months ago. https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/11/8584277/smartphone-shipments-china-market-share-apple https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/11/8584277/smartphone-shipme... To give you some extra details - I live in downtown Shanghai, as of writing, several months after IPhone X's release, I have not even seen the IPhone X yet as not any single one of my families, friends or colleagues has switched to that.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

rqs 9y ago

> I'd say most people already use local apps/services for almost everything, so having Apple moving servers to China won't practically have any impact on "privacy" or "human rights concerns" Does this mean anything? You also breathe polluted air like "most people", do you want new fresh air then? The reason of "__INSERT ACTION HERE__ won't practically have any impact on 'privacy' or 'human rights concerns'" is because "most people" unaware the importance of their privacy, NOT because their privacy is not important. So, their is a choice to make: To make people understand the importance of their privacy; OR, continue selling this unawareness (to make people ignorant). Which way you go?

tonylinn80 9y ago
Whichever way, it doesn't matter that much. At least where Apple wants to put their server makes no difference. It's not that we are "unaware" of anything, we just don't feel the same way about privacy (and many other western values as well). Not that they're bad, we just don't believe they're so important. Sure you think you "know the importance of privacy", but that's rather just an opinion, not a fact. In fact, another apparent trend in China is that people who have been studying and living in US for some time tends to become more agreeable with Chinese government afterwards.
- cromwellian 9y ago
  You'll feel different the first time the "social credit" system ends up denying you a loan because of something you said in a private message. Or you'd feel real different if you were a Uighur who lived in Xinjiang. Right now, thanks to a growing economy, no one cares about rocking the boat, or what the government does. That will all change when China experiences its first deep recession, and like the US, the government will have no choice but to stoke dangerous levels of nationalism to deflect anger away from it, while ratcheting up the amount of control it has.
  - tonylinn80 9y ago
    The current credit systems in China works very, very differently from what the western media describes. Major commercial systems like "Zhemaxinyong" are actually way more transparent than US credit system. You get to see a lot of the details about what's impacting your score at all time, and you have lots of control on where do you want to share your score to. The official "social credit" system that the government wants to build is still at a very early stage right now, and it'll be no where close to what the western media imagined (or rather, hoped) The fairy tales about Chinese social credit system denying loans because of private messages are malicious wishes of western media or Chinese activists at most

drdaeman 9y ago

Here in Russia we have a (somewhat niche) meme "we've only won" (keeping the good look to the bad play, typically used ironically). Each time our wise government protects us from something unnecessary or dangerous (like ban on European dairy products or LinkedIn storing data abroad) we're only winning from this, as almost no one needed that anyway, and that now our own positions are even stronger, etc. I can't help myself but find very close resemblance here. ;) Just saying.

ksec 9y ago

Similar finding here. Lost quite some market shares is what we "felt" was happening around out circles, although the stats usually tells a slightly different story. Especially when you are suppose to be using Chinese Brand if you are in business and have any relationship to political circles. And may be given a lot of these phones are likely being used to do App Store Reviews, ranks, Gaming levels, etc. May be that is why we see them less around us but sales figure tells a different story.