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Different context but Buffett's quote “If a cop follows you for 500 miles, you’re going to get a ticket,” applies here. If you are a criminal you don't violate

Different context but Buffett's quote “If a cop follows you for 500 miles, you’re going to get a ticket,” applies here. If you are a criminal you don't violate only one law. You tend to violate multiple laws and at some point you are going to be sloppy.

jacquesm 9y ago
Buffet's quote applies to non-criminals as well.
- selectodude 9y ago
  yes, that was the original point that was being made by Buffett.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  One might also argue that if you notice the cop following you and continue driving another 490 miles, you will deserve that ticket. And maybe an award for fuel economy.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    With the fuel economy of your average police cruiser taken into account the award should probably go to the police officer.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    A friend of mine once spotted a policeman down the road, turning on his lights. Since he was on a limited-access highway, he decided to pull over very quickly and just wait the policeman out. (They were on opposite shoulders, and the left shoulder didn't extend back to where my friend was.) The policeman got out of his car and ordered him to proceed with hand gestures. My friend decided he could be in worse trouble if he didn't. (Yes, it was really my friend and not me.)
    - cr0sh 9y ago
      My story of weird police interaction: My wife was driving my pickup on the freeway late at night; I'm in the passenger seat dozing, sleeping off a party we went to. Anyhow, she's pulling over and I see the red and blues flashing around us, and I'm wondering what's going on. She's asking me where I keep my registration. We stop, and the cop stops behind us. Then a second pulls in behind him. I'm sitting there wondering WTF because the worst thing I can think is wrong is a burned out tail light... Cops come up on both sides; we roll down our windows, cops shine flashlights around within the vehicle - my head is pounding, thanks guy... Cop asks my wife: "Why did you pull over?" My wife replies: "Because you had your lights on, blipped the siren, and pulled us over...?" Cop then says: "...Go on, get outta here." We're both looking at each other like "WTF was that about?" - but my wife pulls out, gets up to speed, stays at the speed limit, then gets off at the nearest exit. We take surface streets home. To this day, I have no idea what it was about.
      - nugi 9y ago
        If I had to guess, driving slow. Her pulling over instead of speeding up was smart, but mildly suspicious to a cop without an active call.
      - pyoung 9y ago
        Just a random guess, but they may have been hunting for a self-incriminating admission of drunk driving. I got pulled over for speeding once, and the first thing the cop asked was "Why do you think I pulled you over?". I shrugged, and said I had no idea. He claimed I was speeding, but let me off with a warning. In another instance where I got pulled over for speeding[1], the cop told me as much, but then asked how fast I thought I was going. I told him 65 (which was 10 over the limit of 55). He claimed that I was going 70 (15 over 55), but wrote me a ticket for 65 in a 60 zone (5 over, notice that he went with the speed that I claimed, but changed the speed limit in my favor). Apparently the fine varies based on the amount over the speed limit, so he basically gave me a lower fine. My hunch, is in both cases, they were just looking for admission of guilt. [1] Just so people don't get the wrong idea, I am generally a very cautious driver, there were the only two speeding related encounters in 15+ years.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  More in the US than elsewhere. In Germany, you obey the speed limit, and only rubes pass on the right. In the US, everyone drives 9 mph above the posted limit if they're being careful, and people pass on the right willy-nilly, regardless of what local laws say. But if the police really want to enforce that on you, they can. There are tons of "blue laws" in the US, some from over a hundred years back. Sometimes the police decide to enforce those. One such occasion precipitated the landmark Supreme Court case Lawrence vs. Texas. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jan/19/vladimir-putin/putin-some-places-united-states-homosexuality-rema/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jan/...
  - alphabettsy 9y ago
    People pass on the right because people block the passing lane. It shouldn’t be possible in most cases to pass on the right.
    - saalweachter 9y ago
      You've never seen someone pass a stopped school bus on the shoulder?
      - s73v3r_ 9y ago
        Thankfully I haven't, but I fully believe that people can be dumb or dickish enough to do that.
        FireBeyond 9y ago
        Oh yes. * http://abc13.com/news/driver-explains-himself-after-dangerously-passing-school-bus/1054827/ http://abc13.com/news/driver-explains-himself-after-dangerou... * http://www.northescambia.com/2017/08/driver-caught-on-camera-passing-school-bus-on-shoulder http://www.northescambia.com/2017/08/driver-caught-on-camera... * The winner, though? A fully loaded semi: http://www.startribune.com/trucker-charged-over-roaring-by-stopped-school-bus-says-he-just-couldn-t-stop/271227161/ http://www.startribune.com/trucker-charged-over-roaring-by-s... "I gotta be places". Or, less politely, "Fuck you, I got mine."
- mpweiher 9y ago
  "The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day. Why?" Three Felonies a Day http://www.harveysilverglate.com/books/ http://www.harveysilverglate.com/books/
  - thephyber 9y ago
    I heard about this several years ago. I've spent much time thinking about it since and I don't have a clue how we could go about fixing this. It seems to me that concentrated benefits and diffuse costs seems to skew US laws towards, say, tyranny. We just don't realize it until it's prosecuted like we are conditioned to think tyranny presents itself. I imagine there are plenty of people in the US that already feel it as if living under the US legal system is already tyranny. BTW - is "tyranny" even the right word for this? I feel like when federal prosecutors only have to actually present their case in 2% of charges to juries by using/abusing the plea bargain system to scare the defendant into submission with a ridiculous opening bid, it feels like something odious.
  - gamblor956 9y ago
    So I read the book, and discovered the author was full of SSSS. You have to stretch the definitions of criminal acts beyond their breaking points just to establish (local) infractions, and even violating federal regulations (which aren't criminal statutes) is something people rarely do--maybe 1x or 2x a year, usually with regards to their tax return). Harvey Silverglate's claims are like the Hot Coffee case. It makes for a good sound byte but when you actually look into the details the truth is the exact opposite of what was claimed.
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FPGAhacker 9y ago
well, i don't know the context of buffett's quote, what he meant, but i can say with confidence that in the US, even the most upstanding citizen breaks several laws per day. speed limits, imperfect stops, improper turns from a stop, unsafe lane change, following too closely, breaking too fast... The problem with a lot of these is the definitions contain imprecise terms subject to an officers whims of interpretation. And that's just driving. Many laws are just ridiculous and you don't even know they exist to avoid breaking them. Google "never talk to cops" for an interesting video from a law prof and a cop.
- gamblor956 9y ago
  Most of what you described aren't laws...they're regulations. I know that's nitpicking, but if you're going to make a claim about precision you should be precise about what is really happening.
Old_Thrashbarg 9y ago
And just to be overly clear, the quote does not generalize to: "If the FBI watches you for 500 days, you're going to get charged with money laundering and conspiracy to defraud the United States".
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  If the FBI watches you for 500 days, they will either find something to charge you with, or they will entrap you into doing something they can charge you with, because their budget does not include as much money for "pointless investigations of innocent people" as it does for "nailing guilty-looking people to the wall, and making the agency look good in the press".
  - slantyyz 9y ago
    Generally speaking, the "trap" they use is to provoke you into lying to them, because lying to them is a felony (Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001). [1] [1] https://reason.com/archives/2018/02/08/donald-trump-shouldnt-talk-to-the-feds-a https://reason.com/archives/2018/02/08/donald-trump-shouldnt... -- edit - I realized the URL might make it look like a slanted political article, but it's more about the law than it is about politics. The article author is the same guy that runs the Popehat website.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      They will also charge you with a felony if you accidentally lie to them. If you tell them "good morning" as a greeting, and the weather is actually a bit lousy outside, they could charge you. You really need professional coaching in order to talk to them. You'll have to program yourself to say things like "in my opinion..." or "in my memory of that event..." or "hypothetically, if..." It's really counterproductive. Because any conceivable response could incriminate the respondent, the interviewee can plead the 5th to anything they are asked, including "is water wet?"

jacquesm 9y ago

Buffet's quote applies to non-criminals as well.

selectodude 9y ago
yes, that was the original point that was being made by Buffett.
logfromblammo 9y ago
One might also argue that if you notice the cop following you and continue driving another 490 miles, you will deserve that ticket. And maybe an award for fuel economy.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  With the fuel economy of your average police cruiser taken into account the award should probably go to the police officer.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  A friend of mine once spotted a policeman down the road, turning on his lights. Since he was on a limited-access highway, he decided to pull over very quickly and just wait the policeman out. (They were on opposite shoulders, and the left shoulder didn't extend back to where my friend was.) The policeman got out of his car and ordered him to proceed with hand gestures. My friend decided he could be in worse trouble if he didn't. (Yes, it was really my friend and not me.)
  - cr0sh 9y ago
    My story of weird police interaction: My wife was driving my pickup on the freeway late at night; I'm in the passenger seat dozing, sleeping off a party we went to. Anyhow, she's pulling over and I see the red and blues flashing around us, and I'm wondering what's going on. She's asking me where I keep my registration. We stop, and the cop stops behind us. Then a second pulls in behind him. I'm sitting there wondering WTF because the worst thing I can think is wrong is a burned out tail light... Cops come up on both sides; we roll down our windows, cops shine flashlights around within the vehicle - my head is pounding, thanks guy... Cop asks my wife: "Why did you pull over?" My wife replies: "Because you had your lights on, blipped the siren, and pulled us over...?" Cop then says: "...Go on, get outta here." We're both looking at each other like "WTF was that about?" - but my wife pulls out, gets up to speed, stays at the speed limit, then gets off at the nearest exit. We take surface streets home. To this day, I have no idea what it was about.
    - nugi 9y ago
      If I had to guess, driving slow. Her pulling over instead of speeding up was smart, but mildly suspicious to a cop without an active call.
    - pyoung 9y ago
      Just a random guess, but they may have been hunting for a self-incriminating admission of drunk driving. I got pulled over for speeding once, and the first thing the cop asked was "Why do you think I pulled you over?". I shrugged, and said I had no idea. He claimed I was speeding, but let me off with a warning. In another instance where I got pulled over for speeding[1], the cop told me as much, but then asked how fast I thought I was going. I told him 65 (which was 10 over the limit of 55). He claimed that I was going 70 (15 over 55), but wrote me a ticket for 65 in a 60 zone (5 over, notice that he went with the speed that I claimed, but changed the speed limit in my favor). Apparently the fine varies based on the amount over the speed limit, so he basically gave me a lower fine. My hunch, is in both cases, they were just looking for admission of guilt. [1] Just so people don't get the wrong idea, I am generally a very cautious driver, there were the only two speeding related encounters in 15+ years.
stcredzero 9y ago
More in the US than elsewhere. In Germany, you obey the speed limit, and only rubes pass on the right. In the US, everyone drives 9 mph above the posted limit if they're being careful, and people pass on the right willy-nilly, regardless of what local laws say. But if the police really want to enforce that on you, they can. There are tons of "blue laws" in the US, some from over a hundred years back. Sometimes the police decide to enforce those. One such occasion precipitated the landmark Supreme Court case Lawrence vs. Texas. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jan/19/vladimir-putin/putin-some-places-united-states-homosexuality-rema/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jan/...
- alphabettsy 9y ago
  People pass on the right because people block the passing lane. It shouldn’t be possible in most cases to pass on the right.
  - saalweachter 9y ago
    You've never seen someone pass a stopped school bus on the shoulder?
    - s73v3r_ 9y ago
      Thankfully I haven't, but I fully believe that people can be dumb or dickish enough to do that.
      - FireBeyond 9y ago
        Oh yes. * http://abc13.com/news/driver-explains-himself-after-dangerously-passing-school-bus/1054827/ http://abc13.com/news/driver-explains-himself-after-dangerou... * http://www.northescambia.com/2017/08/driver-caught-on-camera-passing-school-bus-on-shoulder http://www.northescambia.com/2017/08/driver-caught-on-camera... * The winner, though? A fully loaded semi: http://www.startribune.com/trucker-charged-over-roaring-by-stopped-school-bus-says-he-just-couldn-t-stop/271227161/ http://www.startribune.com/trucker-charged-over-roaring-by-s... "I gotta be places". Or, less politely, "Fuck you, I got mine."
mpweiher 9y ago
"The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day. Why?" Three Felonies a Day http://www.harveysilverglate.com/books/ http://www.harveysilverglate.com/books/
- thephyber 9y ago
  I heard about this several years ago. I've spent much time thinking about it since and I don't have a clue how we could go about fixing this. It seems to me that concentrated benefits and diffuse costs seems to skew US laws towards, say, tyranny. We just don't realize it until it's prosecuted like we are conditioned to think tyranny presents itself. I imagine there are plenty of people in the US that already feel it as if living under the US legal system is already tyranny. BTW - is "tyranny" even the right word for this? I feel like when federal prosecutors only have to actually present their case in 2% of charges to juries by using/abusing the plea bargain system to scare the defendant into submission with a ridiculous opening bid, it feels like something odious.
- gamblor956 9y ago
  So I read the book, and discovered the author was full of SSSS. You have to stretch the definitions of criminal acts beyond their breaking points just to establish (local) infractions, and even violating federal regulations (which aren't criminal statutes) is something people rarely do--maybe 1x or 2x a year, usually with regards to their tax return). Harvey Silverglate's claims are like the Hot Coffee case. It makes for a good sound byte but when you actually look into the details the truth is the exact opposite of what was claimed.

deleted 9y ago

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deleted 9y ago

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FPGAhacker 9y ago

well, i don't know the context of buffett's quote, what he meant, but i can say with confidence that in the US, even the most upstanding citizen breaks several laws per day. speed limits, imperfect stops, improper turns from a stop, unsafe lane change, following too closely, breaking too fast... The problem with a lot of these is the definitions contain imprecise terms subject to an officers whims of interpretation. And that's just driving. Many laws are just ridiculous and you don't even know they exist to avoid breaking them. Google "never talk to cops" for an interesting video from a law prof and a cop.

gamblor956 9y ago
Most of what you described aren't laws...they're regulations. I know that's nitpicking, but if you're going to make a claim about precision you should be precise about what is really happening.

Old_Thrashbarg 9y ago

And just to be overly clear, the quote does not generalize to: "If the FBI watches you for 500 days, you're going to get charged with money laundering and conspiracy to defraud the United States".

logfromblammo 9y ago
If the FBI watches you for 500 days, they will either find something to charge you with, or they will entrap you into doing something they can charge you with, because their budget does not include as much money for "pointless investigations of innocent people" as it does for "nailing guilty-looking people to the wall, and making the agency look good in the press".
- slantyyz 9y ago
  Generally speaking, the "trap" they use is to provoke you into lying to them, because lying to them is a felony (Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001). [1] [1] https://reason.com/archives/2018/02/08/donald-trump-shouldnt-talk-to-the-feds-a https://reason.com/archives/2018/02/08/donald-trump-shouldnt... -- edit - I realized the URL might make it look like a slanted political article, but it's more about the law than it is about politics. The article author is the same guy that runs the Popehat website.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    They will also charge you with a felony if you accidentally lie to them. If you tell them "good morning" as a greeting, and the weather is actually a bit lousy outside, they could charge you. You really need professional coaching in order to talk to them. You'll have to program yourself to say things like "in my opinion..." or "in my memory of that event..." or "hypothetically, if..." It's really counterproductive. Because any conceivable response could incriminate the respondent, the interviewee can plead the 5th to anything they are asked, including "is water wet?"