8 ms·

"But is what’s happening actually new? And is what’s happening as significant as the news makes it out to be?" I mean, you should be able to answer those quest

"But is what’s happening actually new? And is what’s happening as significant as the news makes it out to be?" I mean, you should be able to answer those questions, otherwise you've put yourself into a tautilogical little bubble ("There is nothing new/just fearmongering, so I don't need to pay attention to it. I didn't pay attention to it, so I didn't hear anything new". Return to step 1) "The Russia stuff has always seemed like fear mongering to me. It’s a big scary enemy messing with our political system." Are you saying that countries don't really mess with other countries political systems? Because they do it all the time (including and maybe especially the US). This basically reads like you saying that "bad/scary news isn't real, because I've decided that bad/scary news sounds like 'fear mongering' and couldn't possibly affect me". I mean, war is a thing. People and countries do hostile things to each all the time, often disastrously. Reporting on this isn't fear mongering.

gt_ 9y ago
I don’t think they are trying to delegitimize it. They questioned if we can even consider it new, and if it’s the problem we should be prioritizing. Both good questions, but either way, cleaning up our government and economy is the most important step in reforming our vulnerable campaign system and electoral process. I can’t tell what it is you propose but let’s discuss it later.
threeseed 9y ago
> Are you saying that countries don't really mess with other countries political systems? Because they do it all the time (including and maybe especially the US). The interference that Russia has done is unprecedented in the modern era. There are dozens of election every year. Please provide some evidence of that extent of interfence happening "all the time".
- rangibaby 9y ago
  Well, just in regards to Russia, the US managed to get a $10 billion lifeline to Yeltsin's government at a VERY convenient moment just months before the 1996 election.
  - acct1771 9y ago
    Please elaborate on your meaning, here.
- rdtsc 9y ago
  > The interference that Russia has done is unprecedented in the modern era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Interference that Russia has done with its internet trolls is nothing compared to bombings and assassinations that US has been doing. If you look at South America you'd have to apply blacklist filter to see which countries US didn't mess with.
  - VVyattPrentice 9y ago
    Fallacy: whataboutism.
    - bluesroo 9y ago
      I don't think this was whataboutism... The previous comment made a claim and he showed concrete evidence going against that claim.
    - rdtsc 9y ago
      Fallacy: metawhataboutism metawhataboutism: when hypocrisy is pointed out scream "whataboutism". It sounds like a fancy term and shuts down the other side pretty well.
TaylorAlexander 9y ago
Ive slowly lost faith in the mainstream news over the last few years, and so have subsequently tuned it out. It started when I noticed that the news barely covered the US bombings of hospitals and funerals overseas. There was very little coverage of the US supported war in Yemen where thousands of innocent civilians were being killed. At some point CNN went crazy over MH370 and gave an uneventful search for the plane wall to wall coverage while US weapons killed people overseas. I had to go to The Intercept to learn about drone killings in any real detail. And then I remember in particular when Bernie Sanders had just had his largest rally yet, the PBS newshour failed to mention it while devoting 8 minutes to Donald Trumps twitter comments. So when the media that hated Trump (a position I am not criticizing) started talking about allegations of Russian interference with the elections, I waited for the evidence. But after a couple of months of anonymous officials making this claim and that claim but no hard evidence in the matter, I tuned it out. I’ve since stopped following mainstream news, so if they’ve come up with genuine evidence by now then I’m just out of the loop. It’s fair to say I’m uninformed here but I do recall that for some time at the beginning, no evidence was presented. Lately I use my time to educate myself in other ways. I’m 10 hours in to PBS’s 18 hour documentary on the Vietnam war. I’ve never learned so much about that conflict. I’ve been watching some John Pilger documentaries on YouTube, and trying to understand why people all over the world still live in destitute poverty even in the outskirts of wealthy cities. I’m trying to understand my libertarian friends who say that broad social programs are unfair, while I see images of people with nothing dying from poisoned water or preventable disease. But I’m also trying to understand why socialism was unfair (John Pilgers documentary about Japan was enlightening there). I’m trying to find a way to care for the poor and give them more power without giving power to despotic governments that will siphon aid money into their personal accounts (as in the IMF funded nuclear power plant in the Philippines that was never finished, but poor local tax payers are still paying off). I’m also working on a week long robotics course to teach to some university students in Africa, and the associated robot I built as a teaching aid. I leave in less than a month and it’s been a busy time. So when I see news that sounds like baseless claims about “The Russians” on channels that don’t cover the murder of children but do feast on images of a bare ocean where a missing airliner hasn’t been found, I just tune it out. My life has improved since I stopped using Facebook and removed the normal political feeds from my reddit. I’ve been political my whole life and to this day I focus heavily on politics, but the information I want is scarcely carried on those normal news feeds.

gt_ 9y ago

I don’t think they are trying to delegitimize it. They questioned if we can even consider it new, and if it’s the problem we should be prioritizing. Both good questions, but either way, cleaning up our government and economy is the most important step in reforming our vulnerable campaign system and electoral process. I can’t tell what it is you propose but let’s discuss it later.

threeseed 9y ago

> Are you saying that countries don't really mess with other countries political systems? Because they do it all the time (including and maybe especially the US). The interference that Russia has done is unprecedented in the modern era. There are dozens of election every year. Please provide some evidence of that extent of interfence happening "all the time".

rangibaby 9y ago
Well, just in regards to Russia, the US managed to get a $10 billion lifeline to Yeltsin's government at a VERY convenient moment just months before the 1996 election.
- acct1771 9y ago
  Please elaborate on your meaning, here.
rdtsc 9y ago
> The interference that Russia has done is unprecedented in the modern era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Interference that Russia has done with its internet trolls is nothing compared to bombings and assassinations that US has been doing. If you look at South America you'd have to apply blacklist filter to see which countries US didn't mess with.
- VVyattPrentice 9y ago
  Fallacy: whataboutism.
  - bluesroo 9y ago
    I don't think this was whataboutism... The previous comment made a claim and he showed concrete evidence going against that claim.
  - rdtsc 9y ago
    Fallacy: metawhataboutism metawhataboutism: when hypocrisy is pointed out scream "whataboutism". It sounds like a fancy term and shuts down the other side pretty well.

TaylorAlexander 9y ago

Ive slowly lost faith in the mainstream news over the last few years, and so have subsequently tuned it out. It started when I noticed that the news barely covered the US bombings of hospitals and funerals overseas. There was very little coverage of the US supported war in Yemen where thousands of innocent civilians were being killed. At some point CNN went crazy over MH370 and gave an uneventful search for the plane wall to wall coverage while US weapons killed people overseas. I had to go to The Intercept to learn about drone killings in any real detail. And then I remember in particular when Bernie Sanders had just had his largest rally yet, the PBS newshour failed to mention it while devoting 8 minutes to Donald Trumps twitter comments. So when the media that hated Trump (a position I am not criticizing) started talking about allegations of Russian interference with the elections, I waited for the evidence. But after a couple of months of anonymous officials making this claim and that claim but no hard evidence in the matter, I tuned it out. I’ve since stopped following mainstream news, so if they’ve come up with genuine evidence by now then I’m just out of the loop. It’s fair to say I’m uninformed here but I do recall that for some time at the beginning, no evidence was presented. Lately I use my time to educate myself in other ways. I’m 10 hours in to PBS’s 18 hour documentary on the Vietnam war. I’ve never learned so much about that conflict. I’ve been watching some John Pilger documentaries on YouTube, and trying to understand why people all over the world still live in destitute poverty even in the outskirts of wealthy cities. I’m trying to understand my libertarian friends who say that broad social programs are unfair, while I see images of people with nothing dying from poisoned water or preventable disease. But I’m also trying to understand why socialism was unfair (John Pilgers documentary about Japan was enlightening there). I’m trying to find a way to care for the poor and give them more power without giving power to despotic governments that will siphon aid money into their personal accounts (as in the IMF funded nuclear power plant in the Philippines that was never finished, but poor local tax payers are still paying off). I’m also working on a week long robotics course to teach to some university students in Africa, and the associated robot I built as a teaching aid. I leave in less than a month and it’s been a busy time. So when I see news that sounds like baseless claims about “The Russians” on channels that don’t cover the murder of children but do feast on images of a bare ocean where a missing airliner hasn’t been found, I just tune it out. My life has improved since I stopped using Facebook and removed the normal political feeds from my reddit. I’ve been political my whole life and to this day I focus heavily on politics, but the information I want is scarcely carried on those normal news feeds.