17 ms·

Regrets of the Dying

371 points by vijaydev 16y ago

mkelly 16y ago
I like this article. I wish, however, that it didn't include the little interpretations in the second half of each section. I think it would be more powerful, and honest, if they weren't there.
maigret 16y ago
The article is a bit too short in my point of view, I wish there were a bit more stories told in. It feels a bit cold in that form. This is a very good article nonetheless. I think this is a good goal to be conscious of what is missing in one's life for feeling satisfied at the end. If you are aware of the trade-off you do and why, it's probably easier to be OK with it at the end.
exit 16y ago
> All of the men I nursed deeply regretted spending so much of their lives on the treadmill of a work existence. the problem i find is that your choice is between 150% (employed) or 0% (unemployable).
- shadowsun7 16y ago
  70 years from now you may think differently. I'm not saying that as a bad thing, or in a condescending way, merely to point out that sometimes, we truly cannot know what looking death in the face feels like. And that our thoughts on various things - all sorts of things - change when we finally do.
  - exit 16y ago
    i'm not saying this is how things should be. i'm just pointing out that it seems no one has the option to "work less". our only options seem to be between killing ourselves working to remain "employable", or simply becoming unemployed.
    - jules 16y ago
      This is not true at all. Many and perhaps most people I know don't work full time. My parents for example work 3-4 days a week.
      - all 16y ago
        What do they do?
        jules 16y ago
        Dad works at a "hogeschool" as teacher among other things and mom is a doctor.
- Tichy 16y ago
  Perhaps then being employed is not the solution.
- barrkel 16y ago
  Have you ever known anyone that didn't do their jobs as well as you could? That you could do what they do, in two thirds the time, and less in effort? If you do, you already have your answer.
sheena 16y ago
I wonder if there is a way to bring realizations born of other people's experiences home in any meaningful way. I sometimes think about what advice I'd give my 17-year-old self if I had to attend college again, but I admit that the younger me likely wouldn't have listened. It's hard to know what to value in the moment, and I find it's equally hard to absorb what others with the benefit of hindsight tell you. I'd bet that none of these expressed regrets really surprises any of us, but chances are we'll all have the same ones on our own deathbeds -- despite knowing better.
- delano 16y ago
  People will always need to learn on their own time and in their own way. The best thing you can do for someone is give them a safe environment to make mistakes.
- Confusion 16y ago
  If you've raised your 17 y/o in a way that has imbued him with the principles behind your realizations, there's no need to give him any specific advice about college. Passing on that knowledge is not about specific advice: it's about the way you raise your children; about the way you counteract what 'society' teaches them it expects and freeing them to make choices that will make them happier instead of what makes others happier.
  - sheena 16y ago
    Heh, I was talking about my 17-year-old self, not my 17-year-old child (a terrifying thought). My point was more that a lot of advice has a catch-22-ish quality in that only experience makes its truth sink in, by which time it's often too late.
- lachyg 16y ago
  What advice would you have given your 17 year old self? (I am 16)
  - barrkel 16y ago
    The problem is that almost everyone is lopsided in some way: they excel at something, and are deficient in other things, but almost always in unique ways. Often, the time that they lack in other areas has caused them to grow in others, and it's that growth that gives them an edge in life. Most nerds know this: often they have exchanged social skills for technical skills by the choice of how they spend their time, and how that choice reinforces itself because of how comfortable they feel in different situations. So many of the things you learn, things you'd like your 17 year old self to know, are things that other 17 year olds already know; and vice versa. All I can really say is to explore the boundaries, do things that stretch yourself, that scare you, to minimize the risk of getting caught in local maxima. Learn to understand how your mind plays tricks on you, tries to stop you from growing. Think of e.g. showing an older grandparent how to use a PC, and of how difficult they find it, how they can't play with it, and learn on their own, because they lack the confidence; and how frustrating it can be when you know it's not actually hard, and all they need to be is open and playful. Keep that in mind when you think something is too hard or that you're not good at it; watch out for your own mind telling you to give up.
tomwalker 16y ago
I have met quite a few patients that were undergoing palliative care for their treatments and I heard a lot of the same. One recurring theme I found was that ministers and priests always ended up doubting or renouncing their faith. It was terribly depressing. Whenever I think back it always reminds me to spend more time with my family- they provide the best support in these sort of situations and close families always had a happier "vibe".
- shadowsun7 16y ago
  One recurring theme I found was that ministers and priests always ended up doubting or renouncing their faith. It was terribly depressing. I'm curious: why?
  - tomwalker 16y ago
    I really don't know. They never gave a reason. Loneliness was common for those poor guys.
    - all 16y ago
      This is very, very true. Ministers of most all religions are among the loneliest of the lot. Because confidence is crucial to their social function and because people breed politics (i.e., backstabbing), many feel they cannot have friends in their congregations/parishes/communities/whatever. Too often they are right.
      - ww520 16y ago
        Would it be helpful to create a forum or community site specifically for them? Then they can vent and bond anonymously, or with people far away who don't have conflict of interests with them.
    - elviejo 16y ago
      The path to enlightment is a lonely one
  - 16y ago
danieldk 16y ago
I try to keep the basic premise of Zen close to heart: 'live in the moment'. Not only in the narrow sense of being present in the moment, but also in a wider sense. It's easy to live with sentiments such as: if I work just a bit more, I can have a nice house in fifteen years. Once I can buy a Mac Pro, I will really be productive. The cold fact is that life can end quickly. The present moment is the only thing we have, so treasure it ;). Of course, that's not always easy...
sz 16y ago
Interesting how the answers to "what will I wish I'd have done now in 5 years?" and "what will I wish I'd have done now on my deathbed?" can be so different. The second one is better, I think. With the first, you never stop.
- hugh3 16y ago
  This brings up an interesting point: should we trust people about their deathbed regrets? I mean, let's face it. You're lying there, surrounded by your relatives, and everybody is sad. You're going to want to say something life-affirming about how you wish you'd spent more time with your children or smelled more flowers or listened to the wind blowing through the trees or something like that... something that sounds appropriate for the situation, and something that people will think well of you for. You don't want to say "I wish I'd married a different woman" or "I should have stopped after my first two children" or "If only I'd gone to law school", even if those are your deepest regrets. There's a certain amount of social pressure to only talk about pleasant life-affirming things, so that's pretty much what you're going to get.
  - sz 16y ago
    On the other hand, if someone has been lying all their life, if they're ever going to tell the truth, it's going to be on their deathbed. This idea actually appears in our legal system: in court, hearsay (Person X testifies that they heard Person Y say something about Event Z) is usually rejected because there's no way of knowing whether Person Y was lying, even if Person X was truthful. But there are exceptions for circumstances under which Person Y is considered likely to be telling the truth. One of them is a dying declaration; statements made on a deathbed.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
chriseidhof 16y ago
This reminds me of Jeff Bezos's framework: optimize your life for minimal regret. Very inspiring. http://www.youngentrepreneur.com/blog/uncategorized-blog/live-with-no-regrets-jeff-bezos/ http://www.youngentrepreneur.com/blog/uncategorized-blog/liv...
- tlb 16y ago
  It's better to optimize your life around what you value now, not a prediction of what your old, dying self might value differently. Because your prediction is unlikely to be right, and you're probably making better decisions now than while facing death.
jolan 16y ago
No one on their death bed ever said "I wish I'd spent more time alone with my computer." - D. Bunten (creator of M.U.L.E.)
- barrkel 16y ago
  I find the implied converse of this quote (and its more usual version, applying to work) less than convincing. I've had more than my fill with my parents, thanks; I don't wish they had spent less time working and more time with me. I think there's a selfishness in that, a narcissistic desire to own more of the lives of your children, who, ultimately, are going to break free of you, and live their own lives.
  - crpatino 16y ago
    I am sorry for being harsh... but I think is the present neglected version of yourself that does not want to hang around with your parents. And yes, it would be foolish from them to expect, having not devoted enough time to your infant/child version, to try to compensate by devoting unwanted attention to your adult self. However, it has been proven once and again. Children were not meant to be put in daycare. They were meant to be grown within an extended family environment (complete with elder siblings/cousins to look up to and younger siblings/cousins to look after). That's why we are so SNAFU these days.
    - barrkel 16y ago
      FWIW, my parents were an actor / community theatre director and author / scriptwriter respectively. The nature of those kinds of work means that they were almost always at home.
- ww520 16y ago
  Wait until the computing generation goes to death bed.
  - Detrus 16y ago
    If the generation never spends a lot of time outside, they won't know what they missed and won't feel regrets.
Emore 16y ago
I've thought about this a lot. Say you really manage to live in such a way that you won't have these regrets. Wouldn't you, then, regret not pursuing a career? Or the thrill and excitement of climbing a ladder (hey, just putting it out there)? Not to mention that the "fulfilling your own dreams" regret is probably impossible to avoid by merely fulfilling your dreams. I would love to hear the regrets of people that have lived a life in such a way that they don't have these modern regrets.
- toddh 16y ago
  The problem is this assumes you are able to predict now what a later version of yourself will regret later, which isn't possible. Every decision creates a different you which will value different things. A path that he takes now because of his imagined future no-regret prediction may have prevented him from taking a path from which he would have ended up learning something much more, which would have a completely changed his judgements about what he would regret. No-regret is a good aspect of making decisions, but he might want to through in a few principles and values into the mix as well.
- juliob 16y ago
  Yes, you're right, assuming that fulfilling your dream is not compatible with pursuing your career. After working two post-college years at a top software company, I quit the cushy life and lived life by trial and error and my plans only went as far as 3 months ahead. 11 years later I still don't know which country I'll be living or working out of within the next 3 months. Yes I did start to regret losing out on some of the structure, discipline, and optimal professional self-improvement path of living the life that society hands you. I feel I have the experience of a guy 6 years my junior. On the other hand, I know more about myself than my peers because I tried so many things and tested myself under so many different environments. Looking back, I don't think I would have made a different choice but I would spent my leaves (from the typical path) a lot more directed and focused. I think I could have learned about life and myself in a quicker way just by doing things instead of just being. But of course, learning to be -- and breaking automatic habits of action -- is the key to being happy as well. As you guessed, there is no right or best answer. But again, if your career and your dreams are one and the same, then this one dimension could be resolved.
RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
Interesting - this was submitted nearly four weeks ago, and yet garnered no comments at all, and only one up-vote: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1570865 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1570865
- n8agrin 16y ago
  pg linked to it on Twitter yesterday which likely drew a lot of attention. twitter.com/paulg
  - ptn 16y ago
    He probably even read it here and then twitted it.
    - vijaydev 16y ago
      yeah probably. His tweet came about an hour after this submission :)
- vijaydev 16y ago
  This happens quite often. Several good links escape attention due to low votes and get lost. Shouldn't I have got a "link already exists" message?
- robryan 16y ago
  Many good submissions probably get missed because they don't generate an initial interest and most of us that don't have a lot of time won't be on the lookout trying to filter new posts but checking the stuff that has already been up voted a lot.
hbt 16y ago
I read the book "meditations" from Marcus Aurelius recently. It's very interesting to note that the human condition hasn't changed that much. Here are a couple of quotes related to the article. 1. "How much time he saves who does not look to see what his neighbor says or does or thinks." -- Marcus Aurelius 2. Work will always be considered a waste of time when you think about it later if you don't enjoy doing it now. Who thinks those hours debugging + testing X piece of software in language Y about 10 years ago which is now replaced by code Z wasn't a waste of time? It was fun then though. 3. "If you are pained by external things, it is not they that disturb you, but your own judgment of them. And it is in your power to wipe out that judgment now." -- Marcus Aurelius 4. No comments. True friends are amazing human beings to have around. Often better than your own blood. 5. "The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts: therefore, guard accordingly, and take care that you entertain no notions unsuitable to virtue and reasonable nature. " -- Marcus We could all use some philosophy, it helps when things go to shit.
- lionhearted 16y ago
  > Who thinks those hours debugging + testing X piece of software in language Y about 10 years ago which is now replaced by code Z wasn't a waste of time? It was fun then though. Indeed, and things that build your skills and character always have some value. > "If you are pained by external things, it is not they that disturb you, but your own judgment of them. And it is in your power to wipe out that judgment now." -- Marcus Aurelius This is one of my favorite quotes from Meditations. It can really be used to hack your mental state anywhere. Hong Kong, massive crowds and people dart in front of each other, bump into each other, kind of rudely by the standards I was raised. I was getting frustrated. Then I said - ah, let me make this into a game, I will see how quickly I can get through the crowds without being bumped into. I will play like this like a video game. BAM - frustration gone. It became fun, entertaining, and almost relaxing, actually.
  - pm 16y ago
    Hah, I did that while I was in Hong Kong too. It was quite fun.
- 16y ago
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
abalashov 16y ago
I guess it remains to be seen conclusively when I fall terminally ill or get close to death of old age, but in my mind, it is not possible to have a life without some kind of theoretical regrets. Every choice you make to spend every moment a certain way is necessarily mutually exclusive with spending it any other way, and there are only so many moments and so many things one can realistically do. I'm quite positively certain that if asked to reflect on all the things I regret near death, and truly chose to entertain the question from that angle, then I would find something to regret no matter how I lived my life until that point. There will always be could-have-beens, should-have-beens, what-ifs and maybe-if-I-did/didn'ts. Furthermore, in a practical sense, life is an economically bounded experience; life in a world with finite resources, finite time, and within a society of other people always entails strong elements of concession, compromise and accommodation. You cannot lead a purely hedonistic life unconstrained by material or political limitations. What you do will always be subsumed to some extent by exigencies you would rather not have, by the needs and wants of others, by nature, and various forces you can't control. So, I don't think it's intelligible to implore people to "lead a life without regrets." I'm not saying there isn't wisdom in being aware that life is short, and you only get one, and that there are some things you will wish you had done if your life ends up being a lot shorter than you expected. However, it seems to me that an important part of finding peace is acknowledging and coming to terms with the objective facts of the human condition and the inescapable psychological truths that accompany them. Seeing your existence as it is and not as it could hypothetically be is an important pillar of peace and comfort for the soul. The reality is, you will always have "regrets": there are always infinite alternate possibilities for any conditional branch, there are practically infinite variables. "Live a life you won't regret" is the wrong way to look out at the world and your relationship to it. A more constructive approach may be to say, "Lead a good life," whatever that means to you. It is not logically equivalent to "lead a life about which you will never wish something could have been different." Edit: Also, it is important to emphasise the critical distinction between a) regretting that you had not done something differently, in that all it would take for you to not regret it is to have made a different - and equally accessible - choice, versus b) regretting that you could not have done something differently, in the sense that you wish circumstances or conditions had been such as to make possible or make more likely that you could have made - and actually carried out - a different choice.
F_J_H 16y ago
I have already posted this once in a similar thread, but thought I would post it again as it quite relevant to the article and others who have not seen it before may appreciate it: "Instantes" by Jorge Luis Borges: If I were able to live my life anew, In the next I would try to commit more errors. I would not try to be so perfect, I would relax more. I would be more foolish than I've been, In fact, I would take few things seriously. I would be less hygienic. I would run more risks, take more vacations, contemplate more sunsets, climb more mountains, swim more rivers. I would go to more places where I've never been, I would eat more ice cream and fewer beans, I would have more real problems and less imaginary ones. I was one of those people that lived sensibly and prolifically each minute of his life; Of course I had moments of happiness. If I could go back I would try to have only good moments. Because if you didn't know, of that is life made: only of moments; Don't lose the now. I was one of those that never went anywhere without a thermometer, a hot-water bottle, an umbrella, and a parachute; If I could live again, I would travel lighter. If I could live again, I would begin to walk barefoot from the beginning of spring and I would continue barefoot until autumn ends. I would take more cart rides, contemplate more dawns, and play with more children, If I had another life ahead of me. But already you see, I am 85, and I know that I am dying.
- wslh 16y ago
  Sounds nice, but it's important to note that it's apocryphe, it was not written by JLB. A note from Martin Hadis: http://www.internetaleph.com/detail/showdetail.asp?objtype=4&objid=4&langid=en&pid=74 http://www.internetaleph.com/detail/showdetail.asp?objtype=4...
  - hugh3 16y ago
    It should be some kind of Law: Anything written in Spanish will eventually be attributed to Jorge Luis Borges. (Except maybe Don Quixote, which as we all know is the work of Pierre Menard.)
  - nandemo 16y ago
    Indeed, anyone who was read any Borges should know that Instantes wasn't written by him. ;-)
neilk 16y ago
Sometimes I think that I might be one of the few people who will be on my deathbed, regretting not working harder. When I look back on my life, it's mostly been unfinished projects, or good ideas that didn't get far. I've always been told how much potential I have, and I even feel this in myself. But so far, there's not a lot to show for it. Sometimes I've spent years not doing much of anything except looking at sunsets, walking in parks, reading books, and being creative, and all the things that are supposed to make life wonderful. These idle years weren't all a bowl of cherries (mostly it was due to depression) but it still wasn't so different from the slow sort of lifestyle exalted above. And I still find it lacking. We only have a limited time here, and in our age, individuals have extraordinary leverage. Isn't that also a reason to try as hard as we can to make some kind of dent in the universe? If I forgo a few sunsets, but make a thousand people's lives better, did I really do it wrong? When it comes to regrets, the literary image that stays with me comes from Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol. This part is usually omitted from popularizations and films. Marley's ghost has delivered the warning about the three spirits, but also shows him a vision of spirits wandering the earth: The air was filled with phantoms, wandering hither and thither in restless haste, and moaning as they went. Every one of them wore chains like Marley's Ghost; some few (they might be guilty governments) were linked together; none were free. Many had been personally known to Scrooge in their lives. He had been quite familiar with one old ghost, in a white waistcoat, with a monstrous iron safe attached to its ankle, who cried piteously at being unable to assist a wretched woman with an infant, whom it saw below, upon a door-step. The misery with them all was, clearly, that they sought to interfere, for good, in human matters, and had lost the power for ever.
- aik 16y ago
  My take is that the sunsets would be a replacement for the less-fruitful things one does in life - watch mindless TV, spend a lot of time on hygiene, [enter time-wasting task], etc. I don't think it's a replacement for actually accomplishing dreams. It sounds like if you actually have passions to accomplish things, then by all means do whatever you can to bring yourself to act now. You're in the minority here and should be thankful. I say act before you become TOO comfortable. My guess is that once you do start accomplishing your goals, that feeling of "there's not a lot to show for my life" will decrease immensely. At that point I'd be curious if you'd have the same outlook.
harscoat 16y ago
People That's what a Geriatric doctor, I consider a friend, who saw many "humans" dying told friends & I once at a dinner I remember. When I said most of us when dying will regret things they did not achieve like a book, a business, a house, works of art, scientific discovery, something that we could be proud of. He said to me "hey, you may know better in your 30s, in my experience most people before they die they regret not things but other people; not having spend more time with their children, not having forgiven their father or mother, not having told them how much they loved them before they died...". I personally like that post but I think my doctor friend would say: "too many words". I now have a little son and I do a startup, in both cases, I make effort to remember what this doctor friend told me, "one word, People"
petercooper 16y ago
I'm with the "never have any regrets" crowd. The biggest regret should be wasting your valuable time unproductively regretting stuff when you don't have long left to live and could, instead, be preparing yourself and enjoying the company of those close to you.
smallegan 16y ago
Surprisingly watching more TV and playing more MMORPG's didn't make the list...hmm
- c00p3r 16y ago
  MMORPGs are for losers. For a winner life itself is a the best RPG. btw, posting things to HN (and especially down-voting) are just a different kind of RPG. ^_^ TV is watching someone else's play.
hopeless 16y ago
After a potentially fatal car accident, a councillor suggested Victor Frankl's book "Man's search for meaning". I'd highly recommend it. On the other hand, I'm not convinced that anyone who hasn't faced death can really understand life. You can talk to people and they'll nod and agree but they won't understand. My suggestion for living a fulfilling life would be to nearly die every 5-10 years. It's the only thing powerful enough to remind you what is important about life.
jessriedel 16y ago
A more scientific approach, which compliments the OP well: http://www.fz-juelich.de/inb/inb-mut/innsbruck/sommer06/pdf/unterlagen/experience.pdf http://www.fz-juelich.de/inb/inb-mut/innsbruck/sommer06/pdf/... In particular, see table 1, page 4.

371 points by vijaydev 16y ago

I like this article. I wish, however, that it didn't include the little interpretations in the second half of each section. I think it would be more powerful, and honest, if they weren't there.

maigret 16y ago

The article is a bit too short in my point of view, I wish there were a bit more stories told in. It feels a bit cold in that form. This is a very good article nonetheless. I think this is a good goal to be conscious of what is missing in one's life for feeling satisfied at the end. If you are aware of the trade-off you do and why, it's probably easier to be OK with it at the end.

exit 16y ago

> All of the men I nursed deeply regretted spending so much of their lives on the treadmill of a work existence. the problem i find is that your choice is between 150% (employed) or 0% (unemployable).

shadowsun7 16y ago
70 years from now you may think differently. I'm not saying that as a bad thing, or in a condescending way, merely to point out that sometimes, we truly cannot know what looking death in the face feels like. And that our thoughts on various things - all sorts of things - change when we finally do.
- exit 16y ago
  i'm not saying this is how things should be. i'm just pointing out that it seems no one has the option to "work less". our only options seem to be between killing ourselves working to remain "employable", or simply becoming unemployed.
  - jules 16y ago
    This is not true at all. Many and perhaps most people I know don't work full time. My parents for example work 3-4 days a week.
    - all 16y ago
      What do they do?
      - jules 16y ago
        Dad works at a "hogeschool" as teacher among other things and mom is a doctor.
Tichy 16y ago
Perhaps then being employed is not the solution.
barrkel 16y ago
Have you ever known anyone that didn't do their jobs as well as you could? That you could do what they do, in two thirds the time, and less in effort? If you do, you already have your answer.

sheena 16y ago

I wonder if there is a way to bring realizations born of other people's experiences home in any meaningful way. I sometimes think about what advice I'd give my 17-year-old self if I had to attend college again, but I admit that the younger me likely wouldn't have listened. It's hard to know what to value in the moment, and I find it's equally hard to absorb what others with the benefit of hindsight tell you. I'd bet that none of these expressed regrets really surprises any of us, but chances are we'll all have the same ones on our own deathbeds -- despite knowing better.

delano 16y ago
People will always need to learn on their own time and in their own way. The best thing you can do for someone is give them a safe environment to make mistakes.
Confusion 16y ago
If you've raised your 17 y/o in a way that has imbued him with the principles behind your realizations, there's no need to give him any specific advice about college. Passing on that knowledge is not about specific advice: it's about the way you raise your children; about the way you counteract what 'society' teaches them it expects and freeing them to make choices that will make them happier instead of what makes others happier.
- sheena 16y ago
  Heh, I was talking about my 17-year-old self, not my 17-year-old child (a terrifying thought). My point was more that a lot of advice has a catch-22-ish quality in that only experience makes its truth sink in, by which time it's often too late.
lachyg 16y ago
What advice would you have given your 17 year old self? (I am 16)
- barrkel 16y ago
  The problem is that almost everyone is lopsided in some way: they excel at something, and are deficient in other things, but almost always in unique ways. Often, the time that they lack in other areas has caused them to grow in others, and it's that growth that gives them an edge in life. Most nerds know this: often they have exchanged social skills for technical skills by the choice of how they spend their time, and how that choice reinforces itself because of how comfortable they feel in different situations. So many of the things you learn, things you'd like your 17 year old self to know, are things that other 17 year olds already know; and vice versa. All I can really say is to explore the boundaries, do things that stretch yourself, that scare you, to minimize the risk of getting caught in local maxima. Learn to understand how your mind plays tricks on you, tries to stop you from growing. Think of e.g. showing an older grandparent how to use a PC, and of how difficult they find it, how they can't play with it, and learn on their own, because they lack the confidence; and how frustrating it can be when you know it's not actually hard, and all they need to be is open and playful. Keep that in mind when you think something is too hard or that you're not good at it; watch out for your own mind telling you to give up.

tomwalker 16y ago

I have met quite a few patients that were undergoing palliative care for their treatments and I heard a lot of the same. One recurring theme I found was that ministers and priests always ended up doubting or renouncing their faith. It was terribly depressing. Whenever I think back it always reminds me to spend more time with my family- they provide the best support in these sort of situations and close families always had a happier "vibe".

shadowsun7 16y ago
One recurring theme I found was that ministers and priests always ended up doubting or renouncing their faith. It was terribly depressing. I'm curious: why?
- tomwalker 16y ago
  I really don't know. They never gave a reason. Loneliness was common for those poor guys.
  - all 16y ago
    This is very, very true. Ministers of most all religions are among the loneliest of the lot. Because confidence is crucial to their social function and because people breed politics (i.e., backstabbing), many feel they cannot have friends in their congregations/parishes/communities/whatever. Too often they are right.
    - ww520 16y ago
      Would it be helpful to create a forum or community site specifically for them? Then they can vent and bond anonymously, or with people far away who don't have conflict of interests with them.
  - elviejo 16y ago
    The path to enlightment is a lonely one
- 16y ago

danieldk 16y ago

I try to keep the basic premise of Zen close to heart: 'live in the moment'. Not only in the narrow sense of being present in the moment, but also in a wider sense. It's easy to live with sentiments such as: if I work just a bit more, I can have a nice house in fifteen years. Once I can buy a Mac Pro, I will really be productive. The cold fact is that life can end quickly. The present moment is the only thing we have, so treasure it ;). Of course, that's not always easy...

sz 16y ago

Interesting how the answers to "what will I wish I'd have done now in 5 years?" and "what will I wish I'd have done now on my deathbed?" can be so different. The second one is better, I think. With the first, you never stop.

hugh3 16y ago
This brings up an interesting point: should we trust people about their deathbed regrets? I mean, let's face it. You're lying there, surrounded by your relatives, and everybody is sad. You're going to want to say something life-affirming about how you wish you'd spent more time with your children or smelled more flowers or listened to the wind blowing through the trees or something like that... something that sounds appropriate for the situation, and something that people will think well of you for. You don't want to say "I wish I'd married a different woman" or "I should have stopped after my first two children" or "If only I'd gone to law school", even if those are your deepest regrets. There's a certain amount of social pressure to only talk about pleasant life-affirming things, so that's pretty much what you're going to get.
- sz 16y ago
  On the other hand, if someone has been lying all their life, if they're ever going to tell the truth, it's going to be on their deathbed. This idea actually appears in our legal system: in court, hearsay (Person X testifies that they heard Person Y say something about Event Z) is usually rejected because there's no way of knowing whether Person Y was lying, even if Person X was truthful. But there are exceptions for circumstances under which Person Y is considered likely to be telling the truth. One of them is a dying declaration; statements made on a deathbed.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

chriseidhof 16y ago

This reminds me of Jeff Bezos's framework: optimize your life for minimal regret. Very inspiring. http://www.youngentrepreneur.com/blog/uncategorized-blog/live-with-no-regrets-jeff-bezos/ http://www.youngentrepreneur.com/blog/uncategorized-blog/liv...

tlb 16y ago
It's better to optimize your life around what you value now, not a prediction of what your old, dying self might value differently. Because your prediction is unlikely to be right, and you're probably making better decisions now than while facing death.

jolan 16y ago

No one on their death bed ever said "I wish I'd spent more time alone with my computer." - D. Bunten (creator of M.U.L.E.)

barrkel 16y ago
I find the implied converse of this quote (and its more usual version, applying to work) less than convincing. I've had more than my fill with my parents, thanks; I don't wish they had spent less time working and more time with me. I think there's a selfishness in that, a narcissistic desire to own more of the lives of your children, who, ultimately, are going to break free of you, and live their own lives.
- crpatino 16y ago
  I am sorry for being harsh... but I think is the present neglected version of yourself that does not want to hang around with your parents. And yes, it would be foolish from them to expect, having not devoted enough time to your infant/child version, to try to compensate by devoting unwanted attention to your adult self. However, it has been proven once and again. Children were not meant to be put in daycare. They were meant to be grown within an extended family environment (complete with elder siblings/cousins to look up to and younger siblings/cousins to look after). That's why we are so SNAFU these days.
  - barrkel 16y ago
    FWIW, my parents were an actor / community theatre director and author / scriptwriter respectively. The nature of those kinds of work means that they were almost always at home.
ww520 16y ago
Wait until the computing generation goes to death bed.
- Detrus 16y ago
  If the generation never spends a lot of time outside, they won't know what they missed and won't feel regrets.

Emore 16y ago

I've thought about this a lot. Say you really manage to live in such a way that you won't have these regrets. Wouldn't you, then, regret not pursuing a career? Or the thrill and excitement of climbing a ladder (hey, just putting it out there)? Not to mention that the "fulfilling your own dreams" regret is probably impossible to avoid by merely fulfilling your dreams. I would love to hear the regrets of people that have lived a life in such a way that they don't have these modern regrets.

toddh 16y ago
The problem is this assumes you are able to predict now what a later version of yourself will regret later, which isn't possible. Every decision creates a different you which will value different things. A path that he takes now because of his imagined future no-regret prediction may have prevented him from taking a path from which he would have ended up learning something much more, which would have a completely changed his judgements about what he would regret. No-regret is a good aspect of making decisions, but he might want to through in a few principles and values into the mix as well.
juliob 16y ago
Yes, you're right, assuming that fulfilling your dream is not compatible with pursuing your career. After working two post-college years at a top software company, I quit the cushy life and lived life by trial and error and my plans only went as far as 3 months ahead. 11 years later I still don't know which country I'll be living or working out of within the next 3 months. Yes I did start to regret losing out on some of the structure, discipline, and optimal professional self-improvement path of living the life that society hands you. I feel I have the experience of a guy 6 years my junior. On the other hand, I know more about myself than my peers because I tried so many things and tested myself under so many different environments. Looking back, I don't think I would have made a different choice but I would spent my leaves (from the typical path) a lot more directed and focused. I think I could have learned about life and myself in a quicker way just by doing things instead of just being. But of course, learning to be -- and breaking automatic habits of action -- is the key to being happy as well. As you guessed, there is no right or best answer. But again, if your career and your dreams are one and the same, then this one dimension could be resolved.

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago

Interesting - this was submitted nearly four weeks ago, and yet garnered no comments at all, and only one up-vote: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1570865 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1570865

n8agrin 16y ago
pg linked to it on Twitter yesterday which likely drew a lot of attention. twitter.com/paulg
- ptn 16y ago
  He probably even read it here and then twitted it.
  - vijaydev 16y ago
    yeah probably. His tweet came about an hour after this submission :)
vijaydev 16y ago
This happens quite often. Several good links escape attention due to low votes and get lost. Shouldn't I have got a "link already exists" message?
robryan 16y ago
Many good submissions probably get missed because they don't generate an initial interest and most of us that don't have a lot of time won't be on the lookout trying to filter new posts but checking the stuff that has already been up voted a lot.

hbt 16y ago

I read the book "meditations" from Marcus Aurelius recently. It's very interesting to note that the human condition hasn't changed that much. Here are a couple of quotes related to the article. 1. "How much time he saves who does not look to see what his neighbor says or does or thinks." -- Marcus Aurelius 2. Work will always be considered a waste of time when you think about it later if you don't enjoy doing it now. Who thinks those hours debugging + testing X piece of software in language Y about 10 years ago which is now replaced by code Z wasn't a waste of time? It was fun then though. 3. "If you are pained by external things, it is not they that disturb you, but your own judgment of them. And it is in your power to wipe out that judgment now." -- Marcus Aurelius 4. No comments. True friends are amazing human beings to have around. Often better than your own blood. 5. "The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts: therefore, guard accordingly, and take care that you entertain no notions unsuitable to virtue and reasonable nature. " -- Marcus We could all use some philosophy, it helps when things go to shit.

lionhearted 16y ago
> Who thinks those hours debugging + testing X piece of software in language Y about 10 years ago which is now replaced by code Z wasn't a waste of time? It was fun then though. Indeed, and things that build your skills and character always have some value. > "If you are pained by external things, it is not they that disturb you, but your own judgment of them. And it is in your power to wipe out that judgment now." -- Marcus Aurelius This is one of my favorite quotes from Meditations. It can really be used to hack your mental state anywhere. Hong Kong, massive crowds and people dart in front of each other, bump into each other, kind of rudely by the standards I was raised. I was getting frustrated. Then I said - ah, let me make this into a game, I will see how quickly I can get through the crowds without being bumped into. I will play like this like a video game. BAM - frustration gone. It became fun, entertaining, and almost relaxing, actually.
- pm 16y ago
  Hah, I did that while I was in Hong Kong too. It was quite fun.
16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

abalashov 16y ago

I guess it remains to be seen conclusively when I fall terminally ill or get close to death of old age, but in my mind, it is not possible to have a life without some kind of theoretical regrets. Every choice you make to spend every moment a certain way is necessarily mutually exclusive with spending it any other way, and there are only so many moments and so many things one can realistically do. I'm quite positively certain that if asked to reflect on all the things I regret near death, and truly chose to entertain the question from that angle, then I would find something to regret no matter how I lived my life until that point. There will always be could-have-beens, should-have-beens, what-ifs and maybe-if-I-did/didn'ts. Furthermore, in a practical sense, life is an economically bounded experience; life in a world with finite resources, finite time, and within a society of other people always entails strong elements of concession, compromise and accommodation. You cannot lead a purely hedonistic life unconstrained by material or political limitations. What you do will always be subsumed to some extent by exigencies you would rather not have, by the needs and wants of others, by nature, and various forces you can't control. So, I don't think it's intelligible to implore people to "lead a life without regrets." I'm not saying there isn't wisdom in being aware that life is short, and you only get one, and that there are some things you will wish you had done if your life ends up being a lot shorter than you expected. However, it seems to me that an important part of finding peace is acknowledging and coming to terms with the objective facts of the human condition and the inescapable psychological truths that accompany them. Seeing your existence as it is and not as it could hypothetically be is an important pillar of peace and comfort for the soul. The reality is, you will always have "regrets": there are always infinite alternate possibilities for any conditional branch, there are practically infinite variables. "Live a life you won't regret" is the wrong way to look out at the world and your relationship to it. A more constructive approach may be to say, "Lead a good life," whatever that means to you. It is not logically equivalent to "lead a life about which you will never wish something could have been different." Edit: Also, it is important to emphasise the critical distinction between a) regretting that you had not done something differently, in that all it would take for you to not regret it is to have made a different - and equally accessible - choice, versus b) regretting that you could not have done something differently, in the sense that you wish circumstances or conditions had been such as to make possible or make more likely that you could have made - and actually carried out - a different choice.

F_J_H 16y ago

I have already posted this once in a similar thread, but thought I would post it again as it quite relevant to the article and others who have not seen it before may appreciate it: "Instantes" by Jorge Luis Borges: If I were able to live my life anew, In the next I would try to commit more errors. I would not try to be so perfect, I would relax more. I would be more foolish than I've been, In fact, I would take few things seriously. I would be less hygienic. I would run more risks, take more vacations, contemplate more sunsets, climb more mountains, swim more rivers. I would go to more places where I've never been, I would eat more ice cream and fewer beans, I would have more real problems and less imaginary ones. I was one of those people that lived sensibly and prolifically each minute of his life; Of course I had moments of happiness. If I could go back I would try to have only good moments. Because if you didn't know, of that is life made: only of moments; Don't lose the now. I was one of those that never went anywhere without a thermometer, a hot-water bottle, an umbrella, and a parachute; If I could live again, I would travel lighter. If I could live again, I would begin to walk barefoot from the beginning of spring and I would continue barefoot until autumn ends. I would take more cart rides, contemplate more dawns, and play with more children, If I had another life ahead of me. But already you see, I am 85, and I know that I am dying.

wslh 16y ago
Sounds nice, but it's important to note that it's apocryphe, it was not written by JLB. A note from Martin Hadis: http://www.internetaleph.com/detail/showdetail.asp?objtype=4&objid=4&langid=en&pid=74 http://www.internetaleph.com/detail/showdetail.asp?objtype=4...
- hugh3 16y ago
  It should be some kind of Law: Anything written in Spanish will eventually be attributed to Jorge Luis Borges. (Except maybe Don Quixote, which as we all know is the work of Pierre Menard.)
- nandemo 16y ago
  Indeed, anyone who was read any Borges should know that Instantes wasn't written by him. ;-)

neilk 16y ago

Sometimes I think that I might be one of the few people who will be on my deathbed, regretting not working harder. When I look back on my life, it's mostly been unfinished projects, or good ideas that didn't get far. I've always been told how much potential I have, and I even feel this in myself. But so far, there's not a lot to show for it. Sometimes I've spent years not doing much of anything except looking at sunsets, walking in parks, reading books, and being creative, and all the things that are supposed to make life wonderful. These idle years weren't all a bowl of cherries (mostly it was due to depression) but it still wasn't so different from the slow sort of lifestyle exalted above. And I still find it lacking. We only have a limited time here, and in our age, individuals have extraordinary leverage. Isn't that also a reason to try as hard as we can to make some kind of dent in the universe? If I forgo a few sunsets, but make a thousand people's lives better, did I really do it wrong? When it comes to regrets, the literary image that stays with me comes from Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol. This part is usually omitted from popularizations and films. Marley's ghost has delivered the warning about the three spirits, but also shows him a vision of spirits wandering the earth: The air was filled with phantoms, wandering hither and thither in restless haste, and moaning as they went. Every one of them wore chains like Marley's Ghost; some few (they might be guilty governments) were linked together; none were free. Many had been personally known to Scrooge in their lives. He had been quite familiar with one old ghost, in a white waistcoat, with a monstrous iron safe attached to its ankle, who cried piteously at being unable to assist a wretched woman with an infant, whom it saw below, upon a door-step. The misery with them all was, clearly, that they sought to interfere, for good, in human matters, and had lost the power for ever.

aik 16y ago
My take is that the sunsets would be a replacement for the less-fruitful things one does in life - watch mindless TV, spend a lot of time on hygiene, [enter time-wasting task], etc. I don't think it's a replacement for actually accomplishing dreams. It sounds like if you actually have passions to accomplish things, then by all means do whatever you can to bring yourself to act now. You're in the minority here and should be thankful. I say act before you become TOO comfortable. My guess is that once you do start accomplishing your goals, that feeling of "there's not a lot to show for my life" will decrease immensely. At that point I'd be curious if you'd have the same outlook.

harscoat 16y ago

People That's what a Geriatric doctor, I consider a friend, who saw many "humans" dying told friends & I once at a dinner I remember. When I said most of us when dying will regret things they did not achieve like a book, a business, a house, works of art, scientific discovery, something that we could be proud of. He said to me "hey, you may know better in your 30s, in my experience most people before they die they regret not things but other people; not having spend more time with their children, not having forgiven their father or mother, not having told them how much they loved them before they died...". I personally like that post but I think my doctor friend would say: "too many words". I now have a little son and I do a startup, in both cases, I make effort to remember what this doctor friend told me, "one word, People"

petercooper 16y ago

I'm with the "never have any regrets" crowd. The biggest regret should be wasting your valuable time unproductively regretting stuff when you don't have long left to live and could, instead, be preparing yourself and enjoying the company of those close to you.

smallegan 16y ago

Surprisingly watching more TV and playing more MMORPG's didn't make the list...hmm

c00p3r 16y ago
MMORPGs are for losers. For a winner life itself is a the best RPG. btw, posting things to HN (and especially down-voting) are just a different kind of RPG. ^_^ TV is watching someone else's play.

hopeless 16y ago

After a potentially fatal car accident, a councillor suggested Victor Frankl's book "Man's search for meaning". I'd highly recommend it. On the other hand, I'm not convinced that anyone who hasn't faced death can really understand life. You can talk to people and they'll nod and agree but they won't understand. My suggestion for living a fulfilling life would be to nearly die every 5-10 years. It's the only thing powerful enough to remind you what is important about life.

jessriedel 16y ago

A more scientific approach, which compliments the OP well: http://www.fz-juelich.de/inb/inb-mut/innsbruck/sommer06/pdf/unterlagen/experience.pdf http://www.fz-juelich.de/inb/inb-mut/innsbruck/sommer06/pdf/... In particular, see table 1, page 4.