3 ms·

This is 100% the truth. I don’t know why it’s so hard to recognize different people have different working preferences, there’s no absolute correct arrangement.

This is 100% the truth. I don’t know why it’s so hard to recognize different people have different working preferences, there’s no absolute correct arrangement. HN (rightfully) shoots down “anecdata”, but on this issue everyone’s fine with a sample size of 1? don’t just shout your preferences at everyone else, it turns these threads into useless repetitive noise.

izacus 9y ago
Probably because research dating back to 1980s (see Peopleware) shows that shared offices are objectively less productive and result in less happy workforce?
- kerkeslager 9y ago
  Did that research make any attempt to distinguish between extroverts and introverts in the workforce? Because if it didn't, it is irrelevant to the post chain you're responding to.
- drstewart 9y ago
  So the fact that I'd prefer an open plan office over private offices is? What? I'm lying?
  - izacus 9y ago
    Why would you be lying? It seems more like either of: - You're mixing up the difference between personal preferences of an individual and emergent results of groups of people. - The fact that you prefer something doesn't mean it's best for general productivity (or even your productivity for that matter).
- dalyons 9y ago
  It’s been awhile since I read it, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought peopleware was advocating for the same as the GP - mixed spaces that suit the individual preferences of teams/individuals.
  - izacus 9y ago
    It was advocating for more old Microsoft-style layout, with a few smallish private offices (2-4 people IIRC) and common spaces for debates/planning/socializing between them.
    - Marazan 9y ago
      I find the small private offices (say 4 people) the worst of all worlds.
      - dasmoth 9y ago
        Very much depends on the people. Two people can work okay, the chance of adding someone incompatible increases rapidly from there. There seems a lot of reluctance to give the worker bees privacy. I don’t know if it’s a status thing or a “how do I know whether they’re goofing off on HN” thing. Maybe it amounts to the same issue.
  - ken 9y ago
    The experiment I remember from Peopleware (at Cornell, IIRC?) is that some people preferred quiet and some people did not, but when measured they all were more efficient at completing tasks in the quiet environment.
s73v3r_ 9y ago
But the problem is, the industry is trending toward just doing the open office thing. Cubes are on their way out, and places that offer private offices for developers are few and far between. We're not the one's shouting our preferences at everyone else; we're the ones having the preferences of others thrust upon us.
- kerkeslager 9y ago
  You're right, it's the extroverts who are thrusting their preferences on the introverts. So what? Which would you rather do, get revenge on the extroverts, or come up with a solution that's amenable to both introverts and extroverts? If all the introverts are doing is complaining about open offices and demanding private offices, they're turning this into a zero-sum game where in order for introverts to win, extroverts have to lose. Not only is that not a good result, but it's not likely to work, since it's not going to get any support from extroverts. Mixed private/shared workspaces are a solution to this problem that benefit everyone.
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    No, don't try to put this on the introverts. And don't try to paint this as trying to "get revenge." I'm fine with having mixed spaces. But the extroverts are the ones in charge, and they're the ones that are, again, forcing their preferences, instead of asking. They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us.
    - kerkeslager 9y ago
      I genuinely hope that introverts get a solution that works for them without asking for it. I just don't think it's likely to happen. > They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us. Does it occur to you that I'm an extrovert trying to do exactly that?
      - s73v3r_ 9y ago
        I mean the ones that are turning everything to open offices. No offense, but I find it highly unlikely you, or just about anyone else here, would have the kind of influence needed to cause existing open offices to change.

izacus 9y ago

Probably because research dating back to 1980s (see Peopleware) shows that shared offices are objectively less productive and result in less happy workforce?

kerkeslager 9y ago
Did that research make any attempt to distinguish between extroverts and introverts in the workforce? Because if it didn't, it is irrelevant to the post chain you're responding to.
drstewart 9y ago
So the fact that I'd prefer an open plan office over private offices is? What? I'm lying?
- izacus 9y ago
  Why would you be lying? It seems more like either of: - You're mixing up the difference between personal preferences of an individual and emergent results of groups of people. - The fact that you prefer something doesn't mean it's best for general productivity (or even your productivity for that matter).
dalyons 9y ago
It’s been awhile since I read it, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought peopleware was advocating for the same as the GP - mixed spaces that suit the individual preferences of teams/individuals.
- izacus 9y ago
  It was advocating for more old Microsoft-style layout, with a few smallish private offices (2-4 people IIRC) and common spaces for debates/planning/socializing between them.
  - Marazan 9y ago
    I find the small private offices (say 4 people) the worst of all worlds.
    - dasmoth 9y ago
      Very much depends on the people. Two people can work okay, the chance of adding someone incompatible increases rapidly from there. There seems a lot of reluctance to give the worker bees privacy. I don’t know if it’s a status thing or a “how do I know whether they’re goofing off on HN” thing. Maybe it amounts to the same issue.
- ken 9y ago
  The experiment I remember from Peopleware (at Cornell, IIRC?) is that some people preferred quiet and some people did not, but when measured they all were more efficient at completing tasks in the quiet environment.

s73v3r_ 9y ago

But the problem is, the industry is trending toward just doing the open office thing. Cubes are on their way out, and places that offer private offices for developers are few and far between. We're not the one's shouting our preferences at everyone else; we're the ones having the preferences of others thrust upon us.

kerkeslager 9y ago
You're right, it's the extroverts who are thrusting their preferences on the introverts. So what? Which would you rather do, get revenge on the extroverts, or come up with a solution that's amenable to both introverts and extroverts? If all the introverts are doing is complaining about open offices and demanding private offices, they're turning this into a zero-sum game where in order for introverts to win, extroverts have to lose. Not only is that not a good result, but it's not likely to work, since it's not going to get any support from extroverts. Mixed private/shared workspaces are a solution to this problem that benefit everyone.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  No, don't try to put this on the introverts. And don't try to paint this as trying to "get revenge." I'm fine with having mixed spaces. But the extroverts are the ones in charge, and they're the ones that are, again, forcing their preferences, instead of asking. They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us.
  - kerkeslager 9y ago
    I genuinely hope that introverts get a solution that works for them without asking for it. I just don't think it's likely to happen. > They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us. Does it occur to you that I'm an extrovert trying to do exactly that?
    - s73v3r_ 9y ago
      I mean the ones that are turning everything to open offices. No offense, but I find it highly unlikely you, or just about anyone else here, would have the kind of influence needed to cause existing open offices to change.