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There's a bias toward the negative in writing, which I think comes from the fact that people write as an attempt to solve problems. So you're always going to se

There's a bias toward the negative in writing, which I think comes from the fact that people write as an attempt to solve problems. So you're always going to see more negative reporting on shared offices than positive. But I'm old enough to remember when private offices were still common, and there was a lot of negative writing about those too. As someone about to enter the software industry, I was very concerned that I'd be lonely and depressed from working alone in front of a screen all day. I think the truth behind all this is that the people writing this negative writing are all mismatched with the offices they're in. If you put a bunch of introverts in a shared office, they're going to be distracted and stressed. And if you stick a bunch of extroverts in private offices, they're going to be lonely and depressed. The answer for employers is to create mixed workspaces that are conducive to both forms of work, and make explicit the fact that nobody should be pressured to work in one space or another. The answer for individuals is to know yourself and where you work best, and work at jobs that will allow you to work in a work environment that works for you. Complaining about shared workspaces or private workspaces is counterproductive--it's just trying to force the kind of workspace that works for you onto a diverse industry that doesn't necessarily work the same as you. Personally, I get a lot done in shared offices. I can relate to a lot of what the author complains about, but a lot of the problems he brings up are problems with startup culture, not with shared workspaces. We extroverts aren't idiots, we know that stuff like "the common themes of rap are in tune with the company’s mission" is ridiculous.

dalyons 9y ago
This is 100% the truth. I don’t know why it’s so hard to recognize different people have different working preferences, there’s no absolute correct arrangement. HN (rightfully) shoots down “anecdata”, but on this issue everyone’s fine with a sample size of 1? don’t just shout your preferences at everyone else, it turns these threads into useless repetitive noise.
- izacus 9y ago
  Probably because research dating back to 1980s (see Peopleware) shows that shared offices are objectively less productive and result in less happy workforce?
  - kerkeslager 9y ago
    Did that research make any attempt to distinguish between extroverts and introverts in the workforce? Because if it didn't, it is irrelevant to the post chain you're responding to.
  - drstewart 9y ago
    So the fact that I'd prefer an open plan office over private offices is? What? I'm lying?
    - izacus 9y ago
      Why would you be lying? It seems more like either of: - You're mixing up the difference between personal preferences of an individual and emergent results of groups of people. - The fact that you prefer something doesn't mean it's best for general productivity (or even your productivity for that matter).
  - dalyons 9y ago
    It’s been awhile since I read it, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought peopleware was advocating for the same as the GP - mixed spaces that suit the individual preferences of teams/individuals.
    - izacus 9y ago
      It was advocating for more old Microsoft-style layout, with a few smallish private offices (2-4 people IIRC) and common spaces for debates/planning/socializing between them.
      - Marazan 9y ago
        I find the small private offices (say 4 people) the worst of all worlds.
        dasmoth 9y ago
        Very much depends on the people. Two people can work okay, the chance of adding someone incompatible increases rapidly from there. There seems a lot of reluctance to give the worker bees privacy. I don’t know if it’s a status thing or a “how do I know whether they’re goofing off on HN” thing. Maybe it amounts to the same issue.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  But the problem is, the industry is trending toward just doing the open office thing. Cubes are on their way out, and places that offer private offices for developers are few and far between. We're not the one's shouting our preferences at everyone else; we're the ones having the preferences of others thrust upon us.
  - kerkeslager 9y ago
    You're right, it's the extroverts who are thrusting their preferences on the introverts. So what? Which would you rather do, get revenge on the extroverts, or come up with a solution that's amenable to both introverts and extroverts? If all the introverts are doing is complaining about open offices and demanding private offices, they're turning this into a zero-sum game where in order for introverts to win, extroverts have to lose. Not only is that not a good result, but it's not likely to work, since it's not going to get any support from extroverts. Mixed private/shared workspaces are a solution to this problem that benefit everyone.
    - s73v3r_ 9y ago
      No, don't try to put this on the introverts. And don't try to paint this as trying to "get revenge." I'm fine with having mixed spaces. But the extroverts are the ones in charge, and they're the ones that are, again, forcing their preferences, instead of asking. They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us.
      - kerkeslager 9y ago
        I genuinely hope that introverts get a solution that works for them without asking for it. I just don't think it's likely to happen. > They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us. Does it occur to you that I'm an extrovert trying to do exactly that?
        s73v3r_ 9y ago
        I mean the ones that are turning everything to open offices. No offense, but I find it highly unlikely you, or just about anyone else here, would have the kind of influence needed to cause existing open offices to change.
dev_throw 9y ago
Yeah, I'm not sure what "the common themes of rap are in tune with the company’s mission" means. Does it allude to "diregard females and acquire currency" rap, or "selling pharmaceuticals" rap, or something entirely different, like conscious "class struggle" rap? This reader wants to know.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
generallee5686 9y ago
I agree with you on employers needing to create workspaces conducive to introverts and extraverts. I've seen one attempt at this and I think it was basically an extraverts attempt at making introverts happy. It was basically "we made these 3 'private' office things that you can use when you need to". This doesn't help me at all. Can I use these 90% of the time I'm at work? If not, what's the point? I think the unfortunate thing that makes this virtually impossible in this day and age are two things: 1. It seems to be vastly more expensive for introvert-friendly spaces where square footage is expensive. Stacking people on top of each other is more economical. 2. Introvert-friendly workspaces are generally seen as "uncool" and unable to attract young and cheap talent. Sucks being an introvert in tech right now. I'm either working in a noisy space, forced to wear headphones and listen to music all day long or working from home where there are other distractions. I just want to see a workspace that has SOME kind of attempt at catering to introverts. Have yet to see one though...
- softawre 9y ago
  My company has private offices for everybody who wants one, and little pod areas outside the offices where you can work together if you like. Teams who want to work in an open space can forego the offices and get a nice open space instead.
  - erobbins 9y ago
    What company? Asking for a friend :)
- kerkeslager 9y ago
  > I've seen one attempt at this and I think it was basically an extraverts attempt at making introverts happy. It was basically "we made these 3 'private' office things that you can use when you need to". This doesn't help me at all. Can I use these 90% of the time I'm at work? If not, what's the point? Did you give this feedback to anyone who could do anything about it? > 1. It seems to be vastly more expensive for introvert-friendly spaces where square footage is expensive. Stacking people on top of each other is more economical. That's true, but the benefits of having a workspace that's effective for your workers' needs would seem to outweigh the cost, I would think. > 2. Introvert-friendly workspaces are generally seen as "uncool" and unable to attract young and cheap talent. Sure, but places that are more concerned about being cool to attract young and cheap talent are generally crappy in lots of ways. If a place is staffed entirely with folks fresh out of college, that's a better reason not to work there than any office layout.

dalyons 9y ago

This is 100% the truth. I don’t know why it’s so hard to recognize different people have different working preferences, there’s no absolute correct arrangement. HN (rightfully) shoots down “anecdata”, but on this issue everyone’s fine with a sample size of 1? don’t just shout your preferences at everyone else, it turns these threads into useless repetitive noise.

izacus 9y ago
Probably because research dating back to 1980s (see Peopleware) shows that shared offices are objectively less productive and result in less happy workforce?
- kerkeslager 9y ago
  Did that research make any attempt to distinguish between extroverts and introverts in the workforce? Because if it didn't, it is irrelevant to the post chain you're responding to.
- drstewart 9y ago
  So the fact that I'd prefer an open plan office over private offices is? What? I'm lying?
  - izacus 9y ago
    Why would you be lying? It seems more like either of: - You're mixing up the difference between personal preferences of an individual and emergent results of groups of people. - The fact that you prefer something doesn't mean it's best for general productivity (or even your productivity for that matter).
- dalyons 9y ago
  It’s been awhile since I read it, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought peopleware was advocating for the same as the GP - mixed spaces that suit the individual preferences of teams/individuals.
  - izacus 9y ago
    It was advocating for more old Microsoft-style layout, with a few smallish private offices (2-4 people IIRC) and common spaces for debates/planning/socializing between them.
    - Marazan 9y ago
      I find the small private offices (say 4 people) the worst of all worlds.
      - dasmoth 9y ago
        Very much depends on the people. Two people can work okay, the chance of adding someone incompatible increases rapidly from there. There seems a lot of reluctance to give the worker bees privacy. I don’t know if it’s a status thing or a “how do I know whether they’re goofing off on HN” thing. Maybe it amounts to the same issue.
s73v3r_ 9y ago
But the problem is, the industry is trending toward just doing the open office thing. Cubes are on their way out, and places that offer private offices for developers are few and far between. We're not the one's shouting our preferences at everyone else; we're the ones having the preferences of others thrust upon us.
- kerkeslager 9y ago
  You're right, it's the extroverts who are thrusting their preferences on the introverts. So what? Which would you rather do, get revenge on the extroverts, or come up with a solution that's amenable to both introverts and extroverts? If all the introverts are doing is complaining about open offices and demanding private offices, they're turning this into a zero-sum game where in order for introverts to win, extroverts have to lose. Not only is that not a good result, but it's not likely to work, since it's not going to get any support from extroverts. Mixed private/shared workspaces are a solution to this problem that benefit everyone.
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    No, don't try to put this on the introverts. And don't try to paint this as trying to "get revenge." I'm fine with having mixed spaces. But the extroverts are the ones in charge, and they're the ones that are, again, forcing their preferences, instead of asking. They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us.
    - kerkeslager 9y ago
      I genuinely hope that introverts get a solution that works for them without asking for it. I just don't think it's likely to happen. > They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us. Does it occur to you that I'm an extrovert trying to do exactly that?
      - s73v3r_ 9y ago
        I mean the ones that are turning everything to open offices. No offense, but I find it highly unlikely you, or just about anyone else here, would have the kind of influence needed to cause existing open offices to change.

dev_throw 9y ago

Yeah, I'm not sure what "the common themes of rap are in tune with the company’s mission" means. Does it allude to "diregard females and acquire currency" rap, or "selling pharmaceuticals" rap, or something entirely different, like conscious "class struggle" rap? This reader wants to know.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

generallee5686 9y ago

I agree with you on employers needing to create workspaces conducive to introverts and extraverts. I've seen one attempt at this and I think it was basically an extraverts attempt at making introverts happy. It was basically "we made these 3 'private' office things that you can use when you need to". This doesn't help me at all. Can I use these 90% of the time I'm at work? If not, what's the point? I think the unfortunate thing that makes this virtually impossible in this day and age are two things: 1. It seems to be vastly more expensive for introvert-friendly spaces where square footage is expensive. Stacking people on top of each other is more economical. 2. Introvert-friendly workspaces are generally seen as "uncool" and unable to attract young and cheap talent. Sucks being an introvert in tech right now. I'm either working in a noisy space, forced to wear headphones and listen to music all day long or working from home where there are other distractions. I just want to see a workspace that has SOME kind of attempt at catering to introverts. Have yet to see one though...

softawre 9y ago
My company has private offices for everybody who wants one, and little pod areas outside the offices where you can work together if you like. Teams who want to work in an open space can forego the offices and get a nice open space instead.
- erobbins 9y ago
  What company? Asking for a friend :)
kerkeslager 9y ago
> I've seen one attempt at this and I think it was basically an extraverts attempt at making introverts happy. It was basically "we made these 3 'private' office things that you can use when you need to". This doesn't help me at all. Can I use these 90% of the time I'm at work? If not, what's the point? Did you give this feedback to anyone who could do anything about it? > 1. It seems to be vastly more expensive for introvert-friendly spaces where square footage is expensive. Stacking people on top of each other is more economical. That's true, but the benefits of having a workspace that's effective for your workers' needs would seem to outweigh the cost, I would think. > 2. Introvert-friendly workspaces are generally seen as "uncool" and unable to attract young and cheap talent. Sure, but places that are more concerned about being cool to attract young and cheap talent are generally crappy in lots of ways. If a place is staffed entirely with folks fresh out of college, that's a better reason not to work there than any office layout.