9 ms·

> If this is the future of tech work, then I guess I'd better find another career--perhaps gardening or wood-working? Exactly. I can't imagine working in an e

> If this is the future of tech work, then I guess I'd better find another career--perhaps gardening or wood-working? Exactly. I can't imagine working in an environment like that. You don't want to hear me playing Smooth by Neil Cicierega[1], and I don't want to hear you playing rap. A work environment is not the place to be playing music for everyone around you. Constant generic music is the worst part of retail, and that's saying something. If your goal is to foster creativity and productivity, but all I hear is thump-thump-thump drilling into my head, I'm not going to be either. Even when it's music I love (or music I love working to) I'll still pause it when I'm trying to really understand what's going on in a complex system. [1]: https://youtu.be/8D-WVlRohQk https://youtu.be/8D-WVlRohQk

ryandrake 9y ago
Also alcohol flowing at work? I’m no teetotaler but isn’t that a recipe for trouble? Assuming we’re not just talking about sharing a few beers after hours. I’ve worked with people who drank on the job to the point where they were working totally shitfaced, and it’s not pretty. If they’re meeting with other teams or customers, they’re going to be an embarrassment, and if they’re checking in code... let’s not even go there. Not to mention how Silicon Valley is now all wrapped around the axle in “harassment this” and “inclusion that” and sexual bad behavior and so on. I doubt alcohol would help with any of that. Just seems like an overall bad idea.
- reificator 9y ago
  Agreed. I don't drink, I don't mind if you drink, even in public. But please, not at work.
- ramphastidae 9y ago
  Drinking at work is one of the absolutely worst traits of tech. Not only is it totally unprofessional, but things like ‘Friday beers’ are actually presented by companies as a benefit, and you face major social and professional consequences for not participating. It’s obscene.
  - collyw 9y ago
    Boring farts. I enjoy being able to wind down and have beers the last couple of hours on a friday (in companies that have allowed it). I organise my workload so there is nothing difficult to do then anyway.
    - uhtred 9y ago
      I prefer to wait until the work day has finished and then go to the pub and have a beer or two. I don't really understand the appeal of drinking at work (which seems more prevalent in US), surrounded by office equipment and computers, it's not really relaxing. Plus there might be people still in the office at 5pm who actually have something important to do and it's not really fair that they then have to try to work with people getting pissed up 10 feet away.
      - nitrogen 9y ago
        If everyone is complaining about their office being too noisy, how can an even noisier pub be more relaxing than that?
        uhtred 9y ago
        Aren't people complaining that their office is too noisy to work in? I wouldn't be going to the pub to work, rather to relax and have a beer and a chat. For the record I'm talking about a traditional, "old man" pub where I can get a nice pint of ale and a table, not some trendy place full of office workers.
        dionidium 9y ago
        You're asking why people are OK with a noisy pub but not a noisy office? Surely you can see the difference if you try.
        nitrogen 9y ago
        The difference I see is that a relaxing drink in a less noisy office would be more relaxing than the same drink in a more noisy pub
- bajablast 9y ago
  Drinking Beer takes the edge off the massive amounts of adderall pumping through my veins after working 15 hours straight
  - NathanCH 9y ago
    Kill your body, make profit for company.
    - BoorishBears 9y ago
      And yourself. Lots of people kill their bodies for a lot less than what a software developer makes. Not that it makes it alright that anyone has to do that, but I keep that in mind so I don’t lose perspective.
      - ExactoKnight 9y ago
        Just wait until your 30 and all this really starts to hit you. Tremors, heart problems, and a sudden realization you're no longer invincible.
- sneak 9y ago
  Drinking in general is a really bad idea. I use it as a good and clear signal for who not to associate with, personally and professionally. I am all for having more opportunities for drunkards to expose themselves.
  - Raphmedia 9y ago
    So, if I were to invite you home and offer you a glass of Glenmorangie (Scotch) or Suntory (Japanese Whiskey), that would make me a drunkard? What about a nice glass of finely aged wine? Please, don't limit your worldview to stereotypes...
    - yesenadam 9y ago
      Well, (I'm trying not to be..insensitive) your defensive comment—and the fact that you were motivated to write it—does make me suspect you have a drinking problem (i.e. drug addiction) but haven't admitted it to yourself. The supposed glamour and sophistication of famous brands helps conceal the basic reality of 'drinking': it's drug-taking, isn't it. (Not that I have anything against drug-taking per se) And that last sentence is snarky/sarcasm?
      - Raphmedia 9y ago
        Edit: That was written under the belief that I was replying to @sneak. Haven't had a drop of alcohol since January 28th, so no drinking problem here. My last sentence wasn't sarcasm and this comment of yours prove my point. You are so entrenched in your point of view that you automatically assume stereotypes about me. You are assuming that drinking alcohol === drinking problem and that me "offering you" a sip of quality booze is a proof of alcoholism. Yes, my comment was "defensive". However, yours was on the offensive. "Drinking in general is a really bad idea" is a pretty wide statement. This makes me suspect that you are the one with issues here. Perhaps that you had negative experiences related to alcohol or alcoholism, making you perceive any consumption of alcohol as negative and dangerous, and that's perfectly fine. I'm not trying to be insensitive either. You are perfectly in your rights not to like alcohol and to think of it as negative. The issue is when you allow stereotypes to taint your perceptions of others.
- monksy 9y ago
  You don't have to be a teetotaler to hate that. Just think how often they clean those taps. (One startup that I worked in Chicago would be closed down by the health department becuase they never did)
- Raphmedia 9y ago
  I've been to many "beer flowing" companies and every time it was reserved for the Friday extra paid break. Those taps are there to offer quality beer at a low cost during happy hour on Friday when there's no more work to be done for the day. I find it hard to believe that any company would allow daytime drinking.
  - Nadya 9y ago
    Where I work we have beer on tap. People are free to drink whenever and the occasional person will grab a beer with their lunch but peer pressure and not wanting to be drunk while at work means most people won't drink during work hours and it's used mostly after-hours or on weekends. If it ever became a problem or someone got shitfaced I'm sure we'd see restrictions put into place quite quickly.
  - matwood 9y ago
    > I find it hard to believe that any company would allow daytime drinking. Allow? In some cultures a beer or glass of wine at lunch is perfectly normal. There is also a big difference between having a beer and downing a 6-pack. I personally would avoid a beer at lunch because it makes me tired, but I wouldn't think much of it if someone had a beer with their lunch.
    - Raphmedia 9y ago
      Beer at lunch is fine with me. Beer at the keyboard is where things gets weird. (Unless it's friday evening and your are working hard while everyone else is at the special beer break.)
- conanbatt 9y ago
  San francisco has a rampant alcohol culture. I never drink as much as I do in SF.
- nerfhammer 9y ago
  It's mostly for show, like the proverbial dust-covered xbox.
- matwood 9y ago
  Comments like your remind me how fortunate I am work with 'adults' at my current company. We don't micro-manage anyone, and only look at results. People who can't handle the responsibility side of freedom are let go, and the rest of us have an amazing amount of freedom to do interesting work. We even have beer in the refrigerator that people occasionally partake in.
  - pweissbrod 9y ago
    Maybe you work for a video game company? I find this standpoint unacceptable in environments that manage PHI PII or anything else involving people's privacy or financials. I get your point about the "I'm mature and experienced enough to know when a beer is appropriate" angle. Maybe I'm old fashioned but my dedication to my work goes beyond things like test coverage it goes into the details of how I conduct myself talk and dress when I'm the clock. I dont want to drive over a bridge or fly on a plane designed by people who dont take a similar level of seriousness to being on the clock. Not to mention beer tastes better when youre not in front of your flatcreen staring at code. Something to be said for being present in the moment.
    - matwood 9y ago
      > Maybe I'm old fashioned but my dedication to my work goes beyond things like test coverage it goes into the details of how I conduct myself talk and dress when I'm the clock. I agree with you, and I work with people who think similarly. No one is drinking during the day or getting drunk at work even though there is beer in the refrigerator. I was responding directly to the parent comment about seeing people drunk at work. That's completely unacceptable. > I dont want to drive over a bridge or fly on a plane designed by people who dont take a similar level of seriousness to being on the clock. I would be much more worried about lack of sleep leading to issues[1] than if someone had an occasional beer at the end of the day. [1] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissette-calveiro/studies-show-sleep-deprivation-performance-is-similar-to-being-under-the-influence-of-alcohol_b_9562992.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissette-calveiro/studies-sho...
- shoover 9y ago
  And not to mention general sleep and mood issues. It doesn't take many days in a row with a couple evening beers for me to get cranky. I'm sure alcohol affects everyone differently, but "flowing" just sounds like a recipe for mass irritability.
bbctol 9y ago
I think that song has increased my productivity 150%.
- reificator 9y ago
  That's why I like it, but I think you can agree that it's not universal music that everyone would enjoy. Which is (half of) why I wear headphones at work.
rxhernandez 9y ago
I would like to hear both but not at work(I feel like saying you only like one genre is saying you only like one style of food). I would like absolute dead silence at work because that's when I do my best work; hence why I like to work from home 90% of the time.
- reificator 9y ago
  > (I feel like saying you only like one genre is saying you only like one style of food) Is the implication that I said that? Otherwise agreed, silence is great. I find my concentration varies throughout the day, and when I'm most focused I prefer silence. When I'm least focused, music helps bump me up to a productive level. And in the middle, it can go either way.
verall 9y ago
This is totally tangent to the coworking discussion - but honestly mouth moods is a work of art and Neil is a genius. If anyone hasn't heard it, play T.I.M.E.[0] its really unexpectedly good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsoCe7C4Kmk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsoCe7C4Kmk
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  I only recently realized that he's also Lemon Demon, who wrote and performed The Ultimate Showdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WgT9gy4zQA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WgT9gy4zQA
  - deadmetheny 9y ago
    He's also responsible for the Potter Puppet Pals videos, and the Guide to Lord of the Rings/Star Trek/Star Wars races and characters. Neil Cicierega is a hero and treasure of the Internet.
- reificator 9y ago
  T.I.M.E. is a favorite of mine when listening to Mouth Moods straight through. But I can't have it in my shuffled playlists like I can with Smooth or Wow Wow. It's like Love Psych. Great idea, great execution, but not something I can listen to very often. I do like how it brings out the message the Village People intended though. You have to really try to hear what they're saying in the original.
  - AlphaWeaver 9y ago
    I actually extracted it out manually and added it to my Spotify because it wasn't posted. Works just fine.
leoc 9y ago
There's only going to be one kind of music in my coworking space, bagpipe music https://open.spotify.com/track/1bUM4KAW0426M6uELs43lm?si=ihCIinJ1RGydgmFoh0Su-Q https://open.spotify.com/track/1bUM4KAW0426M6uELs43lm?si=ihC... . > Constant generic music is the worst part of retail, and that's saying something. And getting away from the front-of-house area saturated by muzak doesn't promise much relief, because in the employees-only areas of any blue-collar workplace it's a near-certainty you'll find an FM boombox playing absolutely the worst top-40 station within range. There was a NYT article from a few months ago saying 'employers are starting to play music for their staff, what do we think of this?', basically an enormous shibboleth announcing that none of the people involved had ever worked for minimum wage in their lives.
- munificent 9y ago
  Many years ago, I worked on the production floor of a print shop. (I wasn't actually doing print work. I was a designer, but they hadn't built out the offices yet, so my Mac was literally sitting on a desk in the middle of the print room floor.) Do you know how loud "Butterfly Kisses" — apparently the #1 through #40 top song during the time I was doing this — has to be cranked to make it audible over a web-fed offset printer and cutter? I do.
phamilton 9y ago
> Smooth by Neil Cicierega Well... there went my evening... a youtube playlist and a wikipedia article later... plus a rewatch of Potter Puppet Pals... That's one oddly talented dude.

ryandrake 9y ago

Also alcohol flowing at work? I’m no teetotaler but isn’t that a recipe for trouble? Assuming we’re not just talking about sharing a few beers after hours. I’ve worked with people who drank on the job to the point where they were working totally shitfaced, and it’s not pretty. If they’re meeting with other teams or customers, they’re going to be an embarrassment, and if they’re checking in code... let’s not even go there. Not to mention how Silicon Valley is now all wrapped around the axle in “harassment this” and “inclusion that” and sexual bad behavior and so on. I doubt alcohol would help with any of that. Just seems like an overall bad idea.

reificator 9y ago
Agreed. I don't drink, I don't mind if you drink, even in public. But please, not at work.
ramphastidae 9y ago
Drinking at work is one of the absolutely worst traits of tech. Not only is it totally unprofessional, but things like ‘Friday beers’ are actually presented by companies as a benefit, and you face major social and professional consequences for not participating. It’s obscene.
- collyw 9y ago
  Boring farts. I enjoy being able to wind down and have beers the last couple of hours on a friday (in companies that have allowed it). I organise my workload so there is nothing difficult to do then anyway.
  - uhtred 9y ago
    I prefer to wait until the work day has finished and then go to the pub and have a beer or two. I don't really understand the appeal of drinking at work (which seems more prevalent in US), surrounded by office equipment and computers, it's not really relaxing. Plus there might be people still in the office at 5pm who actually have something important to do and it's not really fair that they then have to try to work with people getting pissed up 10 feet away.
    - nitrogen 9y ago
      If everyone is complaining about their office being too noisy, how can an even noisier pub be more relaxing than that?
      - uhtred 9y ago
        Aren't people complaining that their office is too noisy to work in? I wouldn't be going to the pub to work, rather to relax and have a beer and a chat. For the record I'm talking about a traditional, "old man" pub where I can get a nice pint of ale and a table, not some trendy place full of office workers.
      - dionidium 9y ago
        You're asking why people are OK with a noisy pub but not a noisy office? Surely you can see the difference if you try.
        nitrogen 9y ago
        The difference I see is that a relaxing drink in a less noisy office would be more relaxing than the same drink in a more noisy pub
bajablast 9y ago
Drinking Beer takes the edge off the massive amounts of adderall pumping through my veins after working 15 hours straight
- NathanCH 9y ago
  Kill your body, make profit for company.
  - BoorishBears 9y ago
    And yourself. Lots of people kill their bodies for a lot less than what a software developer makes. Not that it makes it alright that anyone has to do that, but I keep that in mind so I don’t lose perspective.
    - ExactoKnight 9y ago
      Just wait until your 30 and all this really starts to hit you. Tremors, heart problems, and a sudden realization you're no longer invincible.
sneak 9y ago
Drinking in general is a really bad idea. I use it as a good and clear signal for who not to associate with, personally and professionally. I am all for having more opportunities for drunkards to expose themselves.
- Raphmedia 9y ago
  So, if I were to invite you home and offer you a glass of Glenmorangie (Scotch) or Suntory (Japanese Whiskey), that would make me a drunkard? What about a nice glass of finely aged wine? Please, don't limit your worldview to stereotypes...
  - yesenadam 9y ago
    Well, (I'm trying not to be..insensitive) your defensive comment—and the fact that you were motivated to write it—does make me suspect you have a drinking problem (i.e. drug addiction) but haven't admitted it to yourself. The supposed glamour and sophistication of famous brands helps conceal the basic reality of 'drinking': it's drug-taking, isn't it. (Not that I have anything against drug-taking per se) And that last sentence is snarky/sarcasm?
    - Raphmedia 9y ago
      Edit: That was written under the belief that I was replying to @sneak. Haven't had a drop of alcohol since January 28th, so no drinking problem here. My last sentence wasn't sarcasm and this comment of yours prove my point. You are so entrenched in your point of view that you automatically assume stereotypes about me. You are assuming that drinking alcohol === drinking problem and that me "offering you" a sip of quality booze is a proof of alcoholism. Yes, my comment was "defensive". However, yours was on the offensive. "Drinking in general is a really bad idea" is a pretty wide statement. This makes me suspect that you are the one with issues here. Perhaps that you had negative experiences related to alcohol or alcoholism, making you perceive any consumption of alcohol as negative and dangerous, and that's perfectly fine. I'm not trying to be insensitive either. You are perfectly in your rights not to like alcohol and to think of it as negative. The issue is when you allow stereotypes to taint your perceptions of others.
monksy 9y ago
You don't have to be a teetotaler to hate that. Just think how often they clean those taps. (One startup that I worked in Chicago would be closed down by the health department becuase they never did)
Raphmedia 9y ago
I've been to many "beer flowing" companies and every time it was reserved for the Friday extra paid break. Those taps are there to offer quality beer at a low cost during happy hour on Friday when there's no more work to be done for the day. I find it hard to believe that any company would allow daytime drinking.
- Nadya 9y ago
  Where I work we have beer on tap. People are free to drink whenever and the occasional person will grab a beer with their lunch but peer pressure and not wanting to be drunk while at work means most people won't drink during work hours and it's used mostly after-hours or on weekends. If it ever became a problem or someone got shitfaced I'm sure we'd see restrictions put into place quite quickly.
- matwood 9y ago
  > I find it hard to believe that any company would allow daytime drinking. Allow? In some cultures a beer or glass of wine at lunch is perfectly normal. There is also a big difference between having a beer and downing a 6-pack. I personally would avoid a beer at lunch because it makes me tired, but I wouldn't think much of it if someone had a beer with their lunch.
  - Raphmedia 9y ago
    Beer at lunch is fine with me. Beer at the keyboard is where things gets weird. (Unless it's friday evening and your are working hard while everyone else is at the special beer break.)
conanbatt 9y ago
San francisco has a rampant alcohol culture. I never drink as much as I do in SF.
nerfhammer 9y ago
It's mostly for show, like the proverbial dust-covered xbox.
matwood 9y ago
Comments like your remind me how fortunate I am work with 'adults' at my current company. We don't micro-manage anyone, and only look at results. People who can't handle the responsibility side of freedom are let go, and the rest of us have an amazing amount of freedom to do interesting work. We even have beer in the refrigerator that people occasionally partake in.
- pweissbrod 9y ago
  Maybe you work for a video game company? I find this standpoint unacceptable in environments that manage PHI PII or anything else involving people's privacy or financials. I get your point about the "I'm mature and experienced enough to know when a beer is appropriate" angle. Maybe I'm old fashioned but my dedication to my work goes beyond things like test coverage it goes into the details of how I conduct myself talk and dress when I'm the clock. I dont want to drive over a bridge or fly on a plane designed by people who dont take a similar level of seriousness to being on the clock. Not to mention beer tastes better when youre not in front of your flatcreen staring at code. Something to be said for being present in the moment.
  - matwood 9y ago
    > Maybe I'm old fashioned but my dedication to my work goes beyond things like test coverage it goes into the details of how I conduct myself talk and dress when I'm the clock. I agree with you, and I work with people who think similarly. No one is drinking during the day or getting drunk at work even though there is beer in the refrigerator. I was responding directly to the parent comment about seeing people drunk at work. That's completely unacceptable. > I dont want to drive over a bridge or fly on a plane designed by people who dont take a similar level of seriousness to being on the clock. I would be much more worried about lack of sleep leading to issues[1] than if someone had an occasional beer at the end of the day. [1] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissette-calveiro/studies-show-sleep-deprivation-performance-is-similar-to-being-under-the-influence-of-alcohol_b_9562992.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissette-calveiro/studies-sho...
shoover 9y ago
And not to mention general sleep and mood issues. It doesn't take many days in a row with a couple evening beers for me to get cranky. I'm sure alcohol affects everyone differently, but "flowing" just sounds like a recipe for mass irritability.

bbctol 9y ago

I think that song has increased my productivity 150%.

reificator 9y ago
That's why I like it, but I think you can agree that it's not universal music that everyone would enjoy. Which is (half of) why I wear headphones at work.

rxhernandez 9y ago

I would like to hear both but not at work(I feel like saying you only like one genre is saying you only like one style of food). I would like absolute dead silence at work because that's when I do my best work; hence why I like to work from home 90% of the time.

reificator 9y ago
> (I feel like saying you only like one genre is saying you only like one style of food) Is the implication that I said that? Otherwise agreed, silence is great. I find my concentration varies throughout the day, and when I'm most focused I prefer silence. When I'm least focused, music helps bump me up to a productive level. And in the middle, it can go either way.

verall 9y ago

This is totally tangent to the coworking discussion - but honestly mouth moods is a work of art and Neil is a genius. If anyone hasn't heard it, play T.I.M.E.[0] its really unexpectedly good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsoCe7C4Kmk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsoCe7C4Kmk

pavel_lishin 9y ago
I only recently realized that he's also Lemon Demon, who wrote and performed The Ultimate Showdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WgT9gy4zQA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WgT9gy4zQA
- deadmetheny 9y ago
  He's also responsible for the Potter Puppet Pals videos, and the Guide to Lord of the Rings/Star Trek/Star Wars races and characters. Neil Cicierega is a hero and treasure of the Internet.
reificator 9y ago
T.I.M.E. is a favorite of mine when listening to Mouth Moods straight through. But I can't have it in my shuffled playlists like I can with Smooth or Wow Wow. It's like Love Psych. Great idea, great execution, but not something I can listen to very often. I do like how it brings out the message the Village People intended though. You have to really try to hear what they're saying in the original.
- AlphaWeaver 9y ago
  I actually extracted it out manually and added it to my Spotify because it wasn't posted. Works just fine.

leoc 9y ago

There's only going to be one kind of music in my coworking space, bagpipe music https://open.spotify.com/track/1bUM4KAW0426M6uELs43lm?si=ihCIinJ1RGydgmFoh0Su-Q https://open.spotify.com/track/1bUM4KAW0426M6uELs43lm?si=ihC... . > Constant generic music is the worst part of retail, and that's saying something. And getting away from the front-of-house area saturated by muzak doesn't promise much relief, because in the employees-only areas of any blue-collar workplace it's a near-certainty you'll find an FM boombox playing absolutely the worst top-40 station within range. There was a NYT article from a few months ago saying 'employers are starting to play music for their staff, what do we think of this?', basically an enormous shibboleth announcing that none of the people involved had ever worked for minimum wage in their lives.

munificent 9y ago
Many years ago, I worked on the production floor of a print shop. (I wasn't actually doing print work. I was a designer, but they hadn't built out the offices yet, so my Mac was literally sitting on a desk in the middle of the print room floor.) Do you know how loud "Butterfly Kisses" — apparently the #1 through #40 top song during the time I was doing this — has to be cranked to make it audible over a web-fed offset printer and cutter? I do.

phamilton 9y ago

> Smooth by Neil Cicierega Well... there went my evening... a youtube playlist and a wikipedia article later... plus a rewatch of Potter Puppet Pals... That's one oddly talented dude.