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Base price (w/o tax credits) of the Model S is very similar to the base price of a 7 series Bimmer. The 5 series is about $30k cheaper to start. Doesn't seem fa

Base price (w/o tax credits) of the Model S is very similar to the base price of a 7 series Bimmer. The 5 series is about $30k cheaper to start. Doesn't seem fair to compare sales figures from an $80k car against those from a $50k car. EDIT: Foolishly assumed US prices would roughly translate across markets. I had no idea there was such a large differential in other markets. Consider my comment retracted.

Xylakant 9y ago
Base price for the Tesla in Germany seems to be about €69k and the base price for a BMW 7 series about €88k, the 5er Series about €48k (prices according to google) So the Tesla sits pretty right in the middle of the two. One could argue that it doesn’t seem fair to compare the sales figure of a €70k car against those of a € 90k car.
- adventured 9y ago
  It's not fair to compare a €48k car to a €69k car either then. That's a larger percentage price gap than between €69k and €90k.
  - Xylakant 9y ago
    I didn’t pretend it would be fair. Though in practice, with subsidies etc, the price of a Tesla is much closer to the BMW 5 than it is to the 7 series, especially in the markets where Tesla has it highest sales. Just as a comparison: In Januar 2018, Tesla had 63 newly registered cars in Germany (all models) (1). The BMW 7 series alone had 364. (2) BMW all models 20 759 (1) (1) https://www.kba.de/SharedDocs/Publikationen/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/FZ/2018%20monatlich/FZ8/fz8_201801_pdf.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=5 https://www.kba.de/SharedDocs/Publikationen/DE/Statistik/Fah... (2) https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Neuzulassungen/MonatlicheNeuzulassungen/2018/201801_GV1monatlich/201801_n_top3.html https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Neuzulassungen/Mon...
- thesimon 9y ago
  >Base price for the Tesla in Germany seems to be about €69k I think it's quite hard to consider 69k€ to be the base price. They placed it at €69k to get subsidies for electric cars, which are only granted up to a sales price of €70k. If you want to customize anything (different color, different interior), you have to get the "Comfort package" @ €13k. You also have to get the "comfort package" if you want basic stuff like navigation or radio. €82k seems to be the fairer price point, especially considering this was the regular base model price until the government started providing the subsidies :)
freddie_mercury 9y ago
In Germany a Tesla Model S base price is 69.020 €. In Germany a Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse base price (the S-350) is 85.590 €. Neither car is $50,000 or $80,000 in the markets the article is talking about, so I'm a bit confused by what your post is referring to.
- thesimon 9y ago
  >In Germany a Tesla Model S base price is 69.020 €. Hardly the true base price, considering you have to get the "Comfort Package" @ 13k if you want to customize anything or want to get basic stuff like navigation or radio.
semi-extrinsic 9y ago
I agree this article makes absolutely no sense. Tesla's biggest market in Europe is Norway. In Norway, the base price of a Model S is $76k, while the cheapest BMW 7-series costs $140k! That's literally double the price!
- xxs 9y ago
  Could not agree more: Tesla enjoys favorable taxation in Norway compared to any petrol/diesel based car. One can be smashed by the sheer number of Tesla S in Oslo
- kokey 9y ago
  I think it's a combination of tax breaks and subsidies that are at play here along with high taxes on ICE vehicles. Not just on the purchase price, in some European countries for cars with engine sizes well over 2.0l it totals up to €12000 in road tax to keep it on the road for 5 years.
  - tyfon 9y ago
    No petrol tax, no VAT, no toll fee, free travel by public ferries, free parking on public spots, travel in bus lanes... There are tons of reasons to get a Tesla in Norway at least (or a leaf/e-golf). I tried a Tesla S but it was rattling in all the joins and windows and felt like a very poor build so I passed, but I hope some of the others pick up the slack soon like Audi or Mercedes. By 2025 it will not be legal to sell new petrol or diesel cars anymore[1] here, but I actually want an electric car that goes 500 km. I just want a well built one. [1] https://www.tu.no/artikler/fossilbilene-skal-fases-ut-i-2025/347825 https://www.tu.no/artikler/fossilbilene-skal-fases-ut-i-2025...
    - semi-extrinsic 9y ago
      It will still be legal to sell plug-in hybrids, so the "ban" is just political posturing anyways. E.g. Volvo has stated they will shift all their models to plug-in hybrids well before 2025, so you can still buy your big mainly-petrol XC90 in 20 years time. And by then, all of the perks you mention, like free parking, free ferries, driving in bus lanes, free road tax, they will all be gone even for electric cars. Jeremy Clarkson predicted this whole shitshow perfectly way back when he said he was going to start a car company that put 9V batteries in Hummers and sold them as hybrids. It's pretty infuriating from an environmental perspective though. On a constructive note, have you considered the new Mercedes or BMW plug-ins, like the C350e or the 530e? Realistically you'll get 30 km electric range on one charge, but for many that's enough (or close) for day-to-day driving. By 2025, that's probably doubled (or more). Then you just drive on petrol for your longer trips.

Xylakant 9y ago

Base price for the Tesla in Germany seems to be about €69k and the base price for a BMW 7 series about €88k, the 5er Series about €48k (prices according to google) So the Tesla sits pretty right in the middle of the two. One could argue that it doesn’t seem fair to compare the sales figure of a €70k car against those of a € 90k car.

adventured 9y ago
It's not fair to compare a €48k car to a €69k car either then. That's a larger percentage price gap than between €69k and €90k.
- Xylakant 9y ago
  I didn’t pretend it would be fair. Though in practice, with subsidies etc, the price of a Tesla is much closer to the BMW 5 than it is to the 7 series, especially in the markets where Tesla has it highest sales. Just as a comparison: In Januar 2018, Tesla had 63 newly registered cars in Germany (all models) (1). The BMW 7 series alone had 364. (2) BMW all models 20 759 (1) (1) https://www.kba.de/SharedDocs/Publikationen/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/FZ/2018%20monatlich/FZ8/fz8_201801_pdf.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=5 https://www.kba.de/SharedDocs/Publikationen/DE/Statistik/Fah... (2) https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Neuzulassungen/MonatlicheNeuzulassungen/2018/201801_GV1monatlich/201801_n_top3.html https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Neuzulassungen/Mon...
thesimon 9y ago
>Base price for the Tesla in Germany seems to be about €69k I think it's quite hard to consider 69k€ to be the base price. They placed it at €69k to get subsidies for electric cars, which are only granted up to a sales price of €70k. If you want to customize anything (different color, different interior), you have to get the "Comfort package" @ €13k. You also have to get the "comfort package" if you want basic stuff like navigation or radio. €82k seems to be the fairer price point, especially considering this was the regular base model price until the government started providing the subsidies :)

freddie_mercury 9y ago

In Germany a Tesla Model S base price is 69.020 €. In Germany a Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse base price (the S-350) is 85.590 €. Neither car is $50,000 or $80,000 in the markets the article is talking about, so I'm a bit confused by what your post is referring to.

thesimon 9y ago
>In Germany a Tesla Model S base price is 69.020 €. Hardly the true base price, considering you have to get the "Comfort Package" @ 13k if you want to customize anything or want to get basic stuff like navigation or radio.

semi-extrinsic 9y ago

I agree this article makes absolutely no sense. Tesla's biggest market in Europe is Norway. In Norway, the base price of a Model S is $76k, while the cheapest BMW 7-series costs $140k! That's literally double the price!

xxs 9y ago
Could not agree more: Tesla enjoys favorable taxation in Norway compared to any petrol/diesel based car. One can be smashed by the sheer number of Tesla S in Oslo
kokey 9y ago
I think it's a combination of tax breaks and subsidies that are at play here along with high taxes on ICE vehicles. Not just on the purchase price, in some European countries for cars with engine sizes well over 2.0l it totals up to €12000 in road tax to keep it on the road for 5 years.
- tyfon 9y ago
  No petrol tax, no VAT, no toll fee, free travel by public ferries, free parking on public spots, travel in bus lanes... There are tons of reasons to get a Tesla in Norway at least (or a leaf/e-golf). I tried a Tesla S but it was rattling in all the joins and windows and felt like a very poor build so I passed, but I hope some of the others pick up the slack soon like Audi or Mercedes. By 2025 it will not be legal to sell new petrol or diesel cars anymore[1] here, but I actually want an electric car that goes 500 km. I just want a well built one. [1] https://www.tu.no/artikler/fossilbilene-skal-fases-ut-i-2025/347825 https://www.tu.no/artikler/fossilbilene-skal-fases-ut-i-2025...
  - semi-extrinsic 9y ago
    It will still be legal to sell plug-in hybrids, so the "ban" is just political posturing anyways. E.g. Volvo has stated they will shift all their models to plug-in hybrids well before 2025, so you can still buy your big mainly-petrol XC90 in 20 years time. And by then, all of the perks you mention, like free parking, free ferries, driving in bus lanes, free road tax, they will all be gone even for electric cars. Jeremy Clarkson predicted this whole shitshow perfectly way back when he said he was going to start a car company that put 9V batteries in Hummers and sold them as hybrids. It's pretty infuriating from an environmental perspective though. On a constructive note, have you considered the new Mercedes or BMW plug-ins, like the C350e or the 530e? Realistically you'll get 30 km electric range on one charge, but for many that's enough (or close) for day-to-day driving. By 2025, that's probably doubled (or more). Then you just drive on petrol for your longer trips.