7 ms·

He mentions being lonely during the 3rd and 8th months and provides links I believe.

ubernostrum 9y ago
He mentions being lonely during the 3rd and 8th months and provides links I believe. The author's name is in large type at the top of the page.
- sdoering 9y ago
  I am with you. It is. And assuming a male gender isn't really helpful - but we all fall for this trap sometimes. I try to stay with the gender neutral "they". Especially if it just isn't of any relevance for the topic/discussion at hand.
  - anoncoward111 9y ago
    additionally "the author writes," is a perfectly neutral and grammatically correct way of expressing oneself
- jvns 9y ago
  I think on about 30% of my blog posts that end up on the hacker news front page: * someone refers to me as "he" * someone else corrects them to "she" * an extended argument ensues about whether "he" is a gender neutral pronoun, whether "they" is a gender neutral pronoun, whether it matters if you refer to a woman as "he" or not, whether the original author cares whether they're referred to as "he" or "she", and on and on and on :) From my perspective (since I've seen this argument so many times) this argument is very repetitive and doesn't add a lot of value to the HN comments -- I think it would be much better if people just accepted being corrected with "it's she" and then go back to discussing the actual contents of the article in an interesting way (in this case, a lot of people are sharing their experiences with working remotely and it's been really interesting to see what everyone's different experiences are!) so if you care about this topic I would humbly suggest that you don't comment further about pronouns and instead maybe share your experiences with working remotely! =)
  - blauditore 9y ago
    ...and my initial question still isn't answered. :/
    - ratsimihah 9y ago
      Have you read https://jvns.ca/blog/2014/06/06/working-remote/ https://jvns.ca/blog/2014/06/06/working-remote/ and https://jvns.ca/blog/2014/06/06/working-remote/ https://jvns.ca/blog/2014/06/06/working-remote/ ? There might be answers in there if not in this article.
  - ratsimihah 9y ago
    Oh hi Julia, I apologise I referred to you as "he," that was careless of me. Nice article anyway, I appreciate you sharing your experience, since you address most concerns people might have when taking the jump of working remotely. Take care!
- ratsimihah 9y ago
  Thanks for the correction. I'm sleepy and commented from memory without having the article in front of me, hence the use of "I believe." Apologies for the mistake.
masklinn 9y ago
> He mentions She. Or they, which I recommend when the subject's gender is irrelevant even if you know of it.
- randomdata 9y ago
  He, by definition, is gender neutral and fine for use when the gender is unknown or irrelevant.
  - sdoering 9y ago
    The English pronouns he and she are gender-specific third-person personal pronouns. The English pronoun they is an epicene (gender-neutral) third-person pronoun that can refer to plural antecedents of any gender and, under certain circumstances, to a singular antecedent that refers to a person. Source: https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21719768-praise-singular-they-english-has-traditional-solution-gender-neutral-pronouns https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21719768-prais...
    - randomdata 9y ago
      While you are not strictly wrong, "he" carries multiple meanings (see below). The original commenter is clearly using one of the latter definitions. 1. used to refer to a man, boy, or male animal previously mentioned or easily identified. 2. used to refer to a person or animal of unspecified sex 3. any person "They" is more modern, if a little awkward in some cases, but the english language is fluid and thus "he", alongside "they", remains perfectly acceptable for those who wish to use it in that capacity. The message was able to be conveyed, which is the only requirement of the english language.
      - sdoering 9y ago
        @randomdata: > "They" may be more modern, if a little awkward in some cases, but the english language is fluid and thus "he", alongside "they", remains a perfectly acceptable for those who wish to use it in that capacity. Well. I am not sure of your sources for your statements (1 to 3). But would love to read them, as this is a topic of great interest to me. Especially as they go against everything I did learn during my time studying the history of languages (German and English). I know of language fluidity and I know of a time around the 14th century where "he" was in some contexts used in a more gender neutral way (and even that is debated nowadays). And even then the neutral "they" (singular and plural) was also in use in cases that were clearly gender neutral. So looking back into the development and the history of the English language I cannot find (or recollect) indicators for your way of reading "he" as being totally fine and acceptable and really gender neutral (and not just a sign of a more patriarchal society). Talking about fluidity of language. At least in the last some years there has been a development of "he" being incivil and assuming and therefore should probably not be used in a gender neutral way. Also that other alternatives would be more civil and unassuming regarding others taking part in our conversations. > The message was able to be conveyed, which is the only requirement of the english language. Well technically speaking that is true. But aren't there always human beings part of every conversation? And imho our wetware isn't a purely logic parser for information. We are flawed and our flaws should be considered when trying to communicate. Esp. if we try to get an idea across and not wanting to "hurt"/alienate others. We have different "ways" we process information. The purely informational part of a message is but one of them. Ignoring the others might just hinder our arguments/ideas from getting the recognition they deserve. One model of communication for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-sides_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-sides_model [Edit] Removed unnecessary quote markers.

He mentions being lonely during the 3rd and 8th months and provides links I believe. The author's name is in large type at the top of the page.

sdoering 9y ago
I am with you. It is. And assuming a male gender isn't really helpful - but we all fall for this trap sometimes. I try to stay with the gender neutral "they". Especially if it just isn't of any relevance for the topic/discussion at hand.
- anoncoward111 9y ago
  additionally "the author writes," is a perfectly neutral and grammatically correct way of expressing oneself
jvns 9y ago
I think on about 30% of my blog posts that end up on the hacker news front page: * someone refers to me as "he" * someone else corrects them to "she" * an extended argument ensues about whether "he" is a gender neutral pronoun, whether "they" is a gender neutral pronoun, whether it matters if you refer to a woman as "he" or not, whether the original author cares whether they're referred to as "he" or "she", and on and on and on :) From my perspective (since I've seen this argument so many times) this argument is very repetitive and doesn't add a lot of value to the HN comments -- I think it would be much better if people just accepted being corrected with "it's she" and then go back to discussing the actual contents of the article in an interesting way (in this case, a lot of people are sharing their experiences with working remotely and it's been really interesting to see what everyone's different experiences are!) so if you care about this topic I would humbly suggest that you don't comment further about pronouns and instead maybe share your experiences with working remotely! =)
- blauditore 9y ago
  ...and my initial question still isn't answered. :/
  - ratsimihah 9y ago
    Have you read https://jvns.ca/blog/2014/06/06/working-remote/ https://jvns.ca/blog/2014/06/06/working-remote/ and https://jvns.ca/blog/2014/06/06/working-remote/ https://jvns.ca/blog/2014/06/06/working-remote/ ? There might be answers in there if not in this article.
- ratsimihah 9y ago
  Oh hi Julia, I apologise I referred to you as "he," that was careless of me. Nice article anyway, I appreciate you sharing your experience, since you address most concerns people might have when taking the jump of working remotely. Take care!
ratsimihah 9y ago
Thanks for the correction. I'm sleepy and commented from memory without having the article in front of me, hence the use of "I believe." Apologies for the mistake.

masklinn 9y ago

> He mentions She. Or they, which I recommend when the subject's gender is irrelevant even if you know of it.

randomdata 9y ago
He, by definition, is gender neutral and fine for use when the gender is unknown or irrelevant.
- sdoering 9y ago
  The English pronouns he and she are gender-specific third-person personal pronouns. The English pronoun they is an epicene (gender-neutral) third-person pronoun that can refer to plural antecedents of any gender and, under certain circumstances, to a singular antecedent that refers to a person. Source: https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21719768-praise-singular-they-english-has-traditional-solution-gender-neutral-pronouns https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21719768-prais...
  - randomdata 9y ago
    While you are not strictly wrong, "he" carries multiple meanings (see below). The original commenter is clearly using one of the latter definitions. 1. used to refer to a man, boy, or male animal previously mentioned or easily identified. 2. used to refer to a person or animal of unspecified sex 3. any person "They" is more modern, if a little awkward in some cases, but the english language is fluid and thus "he", alongside "they", remains perfectly acceptable for those who wish to use it in that capacity. The message was able to be conveyed, which is the only requirement of the english language.
    - sdoering 9y ago
      @randomdata: > "They" may be more modern, if a little awkward in some cases, but the english language is fluid and thus "he", alongside "they", remains a perfectly acceptable for those who wish to use it in that capacity. Well. I am not sure of your sources for your statements (1 to 3). But would love to read them, as this is a topic of great interest to me. Especially as they go against everything I did learn during my time studying the history of languages (German and English). I know of language fluidity and I know of a time around the 14th century where "he" was in some contexts used in a more gender neutral way (and even that is debated nowadays). And even then the neutral "they" (singular and plural) was also in use in cases that were clearly gender neutral. So looking back into the development and the history of the English language I cannot find (or recollect) indicators for your way of reading "he" as being totally fine and acceptable and really gender neutral (and not just a sign of a more patriarchal society). Talking about fluidity of language. At least in the last some years there has been a development of "he" being incivil and assuming and therefore should probably not be used in a gender neutral way. Also that other alternatives would be more civil and unassuming regarding others taking part in our conversations. > The message was able to be conveyed, which is the only requirement of the english language. Well technically speaking that is true. But aren't there always human beings part of every conversation? And imho our wetware isn't a purely logic parser for information. We are flawed and our flaws should be considered when trying to communicate. Esp. if we try to get an idea across and not wanting to "hurt"/alienate others. We have different "ways" we process information. The purely informational part of a message is but one of them. Ignoring the others might just hinder our arguments/ideas from getting the recognition they deserve. One model of communication for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-sides_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-sides_model [Edit] Removed unnecessary quote markers.