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For fun, let me suggest an absurd theory. Engineers used to be evenly distributed across non engineers, where they were able to influence family and friends wi

For fun, let me suggest an absurd theory. Engineers used to be evenly distributed across non engineers, where they were able to influence family and friends with their methodical thinking. They used to be respected, seen as peers, part of the middle class like all others. Now, they've all relocated to the west. They command upper middle class salaries, most are the new rich. Eroded of their engineers, most of the country rallies behind their familiar team. Isolated and newly rich, the engineers are no longer being fed data about the average non engineer. Therefore they are applying the engineer rational to a biased subset of the data, limiting their effectiveness. And so here we are. Non engineers know the true reality of their problems, but don't have the tools to solve them. So they rally behind charlatans. While engineers have the skill set to solve problems, but no longer know the realities of the problems to solve. A dystopian future is sure to follow.

jessaustin 9y ago
One suspects that "engineers" (are we talking actual engineers? or those who write software?) are not so central to the beneficial functioning of society as this theory assumes. If you meant those who drive locomotives, then I withdraw my suspicion. They are important.
- DiThi 9y ago
  Replace "engineers" by "people with the engineer mindset" and "the west" by "very populated areas".
  - throwaway080383 9y ago
    How about just replacing it with "intellectuals"?
    - jessaustin 9y ago
      Yeesh, no thanks. In this context that word calls to mind this passage from ItBwtCL: ...during this century, intellectualism failed, and everyone knows it. In places like Russia and Germany, the common people agreed to loosen their grip on traditional folkways, mores, and religion, and let the intellectuals run with the ball, and they screwed everything up and turned the century into an abattoir. Those wordy intellectuals used to be merely tedious; now they seem kind of dangerous as well.
  - dictum 9y ago
    Somehow the first substitution makes the analogy more arrogant. Whereas the original comment ultimately refers to those who are qualified for engineering jobs ("engineers") the substitution suggested here implies the engineer mindset is only present in engineers. If anything, I've seen more engineers shedding their engineer mindset, but that's another conversation. (Disclaimer: this side remark is not about "fake news" or the 2016 election)
    - DiThi 9y ago
      > the substitution suggested here implies the engineer mindset is only present in engineers. Not at all. I've known many people with an engineer mindset that don't have a degree. And the opposite too.
      - dictum 9y ago
        Oh, reading it again, I agree with you. I had read your comment as if you were translating the original comment, but it's actually replacing the original terms to make the phrase more accurate.
gwright 9y ago
At least for software engineers, the idea that they have "relocated to the west" doesn't seem to hold up: https://dqydj.com/number-of-developers-in-america-and-per-state/ https://dqydj.com/number-of-developers-in-america-and-per-st... Seems to be a healthy distribution of developers around the country.
- ivanche 9y ago
  I'm sure that the parent meant something else: engineers moving from India, Eastern Europe, Africa to Western Europe, USA, Canada...
  - gwright 9y ago
    That interpretation didn't occur to me, but it seems even less likely than internal migration within the US. The rest of the world has 22 times the population of the US. It would take an enormous amount of immigration to the US by engineers to affect the collective brain power of the home countries to the extent suggested by the parent.
jdoliner 9y ago
This comment is peak HN arrogance. People rally behind charlatans because they don't have enough proximity to us engineers to think sanely about things? Maybe we could make them an app where they can get one of us engineers on the line so they're finally able to use their brains again and realize that they need to vote democrat.
- adventured 9y ago
  Well, the parent was upfront about it after all: "For fun, let me suggest an absurd theory." How does that interact with the peak arrogance premise? You'd have to say they were knowingly lying and using that intro to deflect it being challenged on a serious intellectual basis. That's a step too far imo, and goes against leaning toward good faith as far as other members go.
Apocryphon 9y ago
The problem with both this comment and the article is that it assumes that the tech industry is predominantly led by, or even populated with, those with the engineering mindset. In fact, I would go as far as to question that a majority of software engineers even have that engineering mindset, at least with regards to social matters or issues beyond their engineering work.
stevenicr 9y ago
Not sure if you intended this, but reading your 'absurd theory' - I automatically read a parallel story that basically replaced engineer with 'big news portal' - it's not just engineers, but reporters, editors, and algorithms that spew what is expected to be the 'right way' - 'politically correct' is another term that I think needs an update to 'socially acceptable to my upper tier peers'... This disconnect was seen in the reporting up to the last big election, and yet it's still seen by the 'average joes' who are bombarded with the flood of not-so'fake'-news, as much as it's really one sided so much that it seems desperate.. desperate to want truth a certain way or to convince others that things could be a utopia if they just understood what the elites know is right around their ivory towers / neighborhoods. If you look at the yahoo homepage, comcast home page, similar news aggregators the past few days, does it seem that there is a diverse group of editors offering different viewpoints or does it seem more like a tight niche group who really wants the world to see things a certain way, no matter how 80% of the country has to see reality different, no matter how they might like it to be. Maybe it's just me, anyhow your absurd theory added another dimension to this for me.. to consider that engineers are also buying into, or have bought into the gated communities and want the rest of the world to accept how they want things. So the upper class has even more concentrated power by getting the engineers to be part of their illusion it seems. I've also been seeing posts by people who say even though their team raises concerns about the way corporation X is deciding to do things, ultimately it's their bosses (ultra wealthy) pushing the decisions to do Y... so for as long as the engineers accept the higher class handouts, follow the group think, and help the ivory tower messaging, they can stay in the bubble valleys and nice coastal facades. dystopian indeed.

jessaustin 9y ago

One suspects that "engineers" (are we talking actual engineers? or those who write software?) are not so central to the beneficial functioning of society as this theory assumes. If you meant those who drive locomotives, then I withdraw my suspicion. They are important.

DiThi 9y ago
Replace "engineers" by "people with the engineer mindset" and "the west" by "very populated areas".
- throwaway080383 9y ago
  How about just replacing it with "intellectuals"?
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    Yeesh, no thanks. In this context that word calls to mind this passage from ItBwtCL: ...during this century, intellectualism failed, and everyone knows it. In places like Russia and Germany, the common people agreed to loosen their grip on traditional folkways, mores, and religion, and let the intellectuals run with the ball, and they screwed everything up and turned the century into an abattoir. Those wordy intellectuals used to be merely tedious; now they seem kind of dangerous as well.
- dictum 9y ago
  Somehow the first substitution makes the analogy more arrogant. Whereas the original comment ultimately refers to those who are qualified for engineering jobs ("engineers") the substitution suggested here implies the engineer mindset is only present in engineers. If anything, I've seen more engineers shedding their engineer mindset, but that's another conversation. (Disclaimer: this side remark is not about "fake news" or the 2016 election)
  - DiThi 9y ago
    > the substitution suggested here implies the engineer mindset is only present in engineers. Not at all. I've known many people with an engineer mindset that don't have a degree. And the opposite too.
    - dictum 9y ago
      Oh, reading it again, I agree with you. I had read your comment as if you were translating the original comment, but it's actually replacing the original terms to make the phrase more accurate.

gwright 9y ago

At least for software engineers, the idea that they have "relocated to the west" doesn't seem to hold up: https://dqydj.com/number-of-developers-in-america-and-per-state/ https://dqydj.com/number-of-developers-in-america-and-per-st... Seems to be a healthy distribution of developers around the country.

ivanche 9y ago
I'm sure that the parent meant something else: engineers moving from India, Eastern Europe, Africa to Western Europe, USA, Canada...
- gwright 9y ago
  That interpretation didn't occur to me, but it seems even less likely than internal migration within the US. The rest of the world has 22 times the population of the US. It would take an enormous amount of immigration to the US by engineers to affect the collective brain power of the home countries to the extent suggested by the parent.

jdoliner 9y ago

This comment is peak HN arrogance. People rally behind charlatans because they don't have enough proximity to us engineers to think sanely about things? Maybe we could make them an app where they can get one of us engineers on the line so they're finally able to use their brains again and realize that they need to vote democrat.

adventured 9y ago
Well, the parent was upfront about it after all: "For fun, let me suggest an absurd theory." How does that interact with the peak arrogance premise? You'd have to say they were knowingly lying and using that intro to deflect it being challenged on a serious intellectual basis. That's a step too far imo, and goes against leaning toward good faith as far as other members go.

Apocryphon 9y ago

The problem with both this comment and the article is that it assumes that the tech industry is predominantly led by, or even populated with, those with the engineering mindset. In fact, I would go as far as to question that a majority of software engineers even have that engineering mindset, at least with regards to social matters or issues beyond their engineering work.

stevenicr 9y ago

Not sure if you intended this, but reading your 'absurd theory' - I automatically read a parallel story that basically replaced engineer with 'big news portal' - it's not just engineers, but reporters, editors, and algorithms that spew what is expected to be the 'right way' - 'politically correct' is another term that I think needs an update to 'socially acceptable to my upper tier peers'... This disconnect was seen in the reporting up to the last big election, and yet it's still seen by the 'average joes' who are bombarded with the flood of not-so'fake'-news, as much as it's really one sided so much that it seems desperate.. desperate to want truth a certain way or to convince others that things could be a utopia if they just understood what the elites know is right around their ivory towers / neighborhoods. If you look at the yahoo homepage, comcast home page, similar news aggregators the past few days, does it seem that there is a diverse group of editors offering different viewpoints or does it seem more like a tight niche group who really wants the world to see things a certain way, no matter how 80% of the country has to see reality different, no matter how they might like it to be. Maybe it's just me, anyhow your absurd theory added another dimension to this for me.. to consider that engineers are also buying into, or have bought into the gated communities and want the rest of the world to accept how they want things. So the upper class has even more concentrated power by getting the engineers to be part of their illusion it seems. I've also been seeing posts by people who say even though their team raises concerns about the way corporation X is deciding to do things, ultimately it's their bosses (ultra wealthy) pushing the decisions to do Y... so for as long as the engineers accept the higher class handouts, follow the group think, and help the ivory tower messaging, they can stay in the bubble valleys and nice coastal facades. dystopian indeed.