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It's amazing how much progress a society can make when it isn't tearing itself apart through endless political internecine warfare over imaginary grievances. Gr

It's amazing how much progress a society can make when it isn't tearing itself apart through endless political internecine warfare over imaginary grievances. Group cohesion, trust, and commonality of purpose can make up for almost any material disadvantage.

majos 9y ago
...except the point of this article seems to be that China's current scientific strength is largely a consequence of the state spending more money on science, i.e. material advantage.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- shard972 9y ago
  I believe he was referencing material capital as opposed to liquid capital (ie money). It would be fair to say the US not too long ago had a big headstart on existing technology/machines. In any case, I think China's cohesion can easily be seen just by looking at the differences in papers being published in china vs the west. For instance, you won't find many if any papers in china on the effects of diversity within society and the workplace. Unlike here, they don't seem to be urgently researching in this area.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    I have no way to check the relative number of papers about diversity published in China, but they do at least collect statistics. E.g. here is data compiled by the Ministry of Education, which is tabulated for categories such as gender, minority status or age: http://en.moe.gov.cn/Resources/Statistics/edu_stat_2016/2016_en01/index.html http://en.moe.gov.cn/Resources/Statistics/edu_stat_2016/2016...
    - shard972 9y ago
      Odd, I just get an infinite redirect when trying to load the page.
  - majos 9y ago
    A lack of papers on diversity seems attributable to the Chinese government's effort to control any strain of "minority" dissent. I imagine that, say, Uyghurs or the rural people on the wrong end of the hukou system, might be interested in "diversity", but for obvious reasons the Chinese government is not interested in anything that suggests it treats certain subgroups worse than others.
  - Maken 9y ago
    > For instance, you won't find many if any papers in china on the effects of diversity within society and the workplace. Unlike here, they don't seem to be urgently researching in this area. Maybe, and just maybe, their research in those areas is not something anybody would be willing to publish.
- quotemstr 9y ago
  Government spending is not manna from heaven. It comes from broader society. The US, as a society, has a much greater starting resource base as compared to China. We're just squandering these resources.
Gustomaximus 9y ago
> It's amazing how much progress a society can make when it isn't tearing itself apart through endless political warfare Also works on the flip side. WW2 and the work stemming form it saw massive technology advancement sin a small period. Obviously I'd prefer the former. It also feel disingenuous not to recognise the latter. Essentially either comes down to giving scientists goals and opportunity.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  The cold war and the space race, we've been there recently.
nine_k 9y ago
Doing science costs a lot of money. Either a society is pushed to do so by an imminent danger (a war or a brink thereof), or by an authoritarian pressure (USSR, China), or starts to slow down (e.g. Russia and, to a smaller degree, USA). "Normal.people" deeply discount long-term goals in favor of immediate consumption.

majos 9y ago

...except the point of this article seems to be that China's current scientific strength is largely a consequence of the state spending more money on science, i.e. material advantage.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
shard972 9y ago
I believe he was referencing material capital as opposed to liquid capital (ie money). It would be fair to say the US not too long ago had a big headstart on existing technology/machines. In any case, I think China's cohesion can easily be seen just by looking at the differences in papers being published in china vs the west. For instance, you won't find many if any papers in china on the effects of diversity within society and the workplace. Unlike here, they don't seem to be urgently researching in this area.
- yorwba 9y ago
  I have no way to check the relative number of papers about diversity published in China, but they do at least collect statistics. E.g. here is data compiled by the Ministry of Education, which is tabulated for categories such as gender, minority status or age: http://en.moe.gov.cn/Resources/Statistics/edu_stat_2016/2016_en01/index.html http://en.moe.gov.cn/Resources/Statistics/edu_stat_2016/2016...
  - shard972 9y ago
    Odd, I just get an infinite redirect when trying to load the page.
- majos 9y ago
  A lack of papers on diversity seems attributable to the Chinese government's effort to control any strain of "minority" dissent. I imagine that, say, Uyghurs or the rural people on the wrong end of the hukou system, might be interested in "diversity", but for obvious reasons the Chinese government is not interested in anything that suggests it treats certain subgroups worse than others.
- Maken 9y ago
  > For instance, you won't find many if any papers in china on the effects of diversity within society and the workplace. Unlike here, they don't seem to be urgently researching in this area. Maybe, and just maybe, their research in those areas is not something anybody would be willing to publish.
quotemstr 9y ago
Government spending is not manna from heaven. It comes from broader society. The US, as a society, has a much greater starting resource base as compared to China. We're just squandering these resources.

Gustomaximus 9y ago

> It's amazing how much progress a society can make when it isn't tearing itself apart through endless political warfare Also works on the flip side. WW2 and the work stemming form it saw massive technology advancement sin a small period. Obviously I'd prefer the former. It also feel disingenuous not to recognise the latter. Essentially either comes down to giving scientists goals and opportunity.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
The cold war and the space race, we've been there recently.

nine_k 9y ago

Doing science costs a lot of money. Either a society is pushed to do so by an imminent danger (a war or a brink thereof), or by an authoritarian pressure (USSR, China), or starts to slow down (e.g. Russia and, to a smaller degree, USA). "Normal.people" deeply discount long-term goals in favor of immediate consumption.