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Well developed mobile payments are nothing but a sign of undeveloped finance sector, people not having bank accounts or credit cards creates massive market for

Well developed mobile payments are nothing but a sign of undeveloped finance sector, people not having bank accounts or credit cards creates massive market for e-payments. I won't be surprised if Kenya is even more advanced in that field than China.

westiseast 9y ago
The explosion in mobile payments in China vs America/Europe is amazing, but it grates when it’s used as an example of tech advantage (ie. as if Chinese companies were being more innovative or groundbreaking). There’s a lot of cool things that happen or become possible when you have a mobile payments environment like China, but it’s possible because of fairly special (and not necessarily desirable) market conditions and lack of regulation in China.
- moosekaka 9y ago
  Hackernews and the English tech media in general tends to be very US/euro centric, but there is a lot more innovation going on in the Chinese market that never gets highlighted in English tech media. Almost like a parallel universe, until said western audience goes there and experience first hand a paradigm shift. Look up shanzai.
  - westiseast 9y ago
    I lived there for ten years ;) But yeah - I think there’s amazing things happening. It’s a bit of a shame that the discussion is regularly framed as ‘who is number one?’ - there’s some straight up great innovation, and there’s a lot of interesting adaptation and innovative use of existing tech to suit market conditions in China.
    - moosekaka 9y ago
      side question...how do short term tourists who might not be able to open a local bank account access wechat or alipay/mobile payments while in China? Are they forced to use just cash?
      - westiseast 9y ago
        No idea :) I heard some foreign cards can now be linked to WeChat, but I've never had that problem. Otherwise I guess yes, Visa/Mastercard and cash.
- est 9y ago
  > because of fairly special market conditions and lack of regulation in China. On the contrary, China has very tight (if not most) financial regulations. E.g. oversea transaction above ￥10,000 need to be reported to central bank. IMHO The secret factor of mobile payments boom in China is infrastructure. Central bank completed near real time cross bank clearing system decade ago. It requires very low fee, has no tech debt like the US. For example, the ACH works by uploading files to FTP and has at least one day delay. In China, it only costs few seconds with 0 fee. Internet giants (网联, Nets Union Clearing Corporation) are in the same position as banks (银联, Unionpay)
  - westiseast 9y ago
    You’re talking about strict regulation of cross border payments, which isn’t a market that ecommerce and mobile payments really operate in at all. Bank infrastructure has been a minor factor at best in the adoption/explosion of mobile payments - we’re talking about Wechat and Alipay basically.
    - est 9y ago
      > cross border payments, which isn’t a market that ecommerce and mobile payments really operate in at all Mobile payments are starting to gaining traction in southeast asia. The market is like mainland china 5 years ago. > we’re talking about Wechat and Alipay basically Wechat and alipay both has bank level clearing. Very few people "get" that.
janekm 9y ago
You need a bank account to use Wechat payments, it’s just much more convenient (and small shops don’t typically accept bank card payments). Credit cards are not very popular yet due to cultural norms around spending on credit, though heavily promoted by the banks. Trying to argue that the Chinese finance sector is undeveloped sounds a little uniformed, to tell you the truth...
moosekaka 9y ago
This is such an ignorant comment...everyone has bank accounts in China, probably more so then in the US. You cant access the mobile payments platform in there without a bank account.
mamon 9y ago
You are probably confusing e-payments with cryptocurrency usage - so, for reference: "traditional" e-payments are based on actual bank accounts and inter-bank payment platforms like SWIFT, or credit card payments.
xstartup 9y ago
I think it's not a sign, just a second mover advantage. Those who came later had access to better/faster tech and didn't have to deal with the sunk cost of existing slow technology.
bsaul 9y ago
As others have commented e-payments require bank account. What i think is that the fact we’re still using the same tool for payment before and after the internet and the mobile revolutions is more the symptom of a totally crippled banking sector. Either because of bad regulations, or simply dominant position abuses that has been tolerated for too long.

westiseast 9y ago

The explosion in mobile payments in China vs America/Europe is amazing, but it grates when it’s used as an example of tech advantage (ie. as if Chinese companies were being more innovative or groundbreaking). There’s a lot of cool things that happen or become possible when you have a mobile payments environment like China, but it’s possible because of fairly special (and not necessarily desirable) market conditions and lack of regulation in China.

moosekaka 9y ago
Hackernews and the English tech media in general tends to be very US/euro centric, but there is a lot more innovation going on in the Chinese market that never gets highlighted in English tech media. Almost like a parallel universe, until said western audience goes there and experience first hand a paradigm shift. Look up shanzai.
- westiseast 9y ago
  I lived there for ten years ;) But yeah - I think there’s amazing things happening. It’s a bit of a shame that the discussion is regularly framed as ‘who is number one?’ - there’s some straight up great innovation, and there’s a lot of interesting adaptation and innovative use of existing tech to suit market conditions in China.
  - moosekaka 9y ago
    side question...how do short term tourists who might not be able to open a local bank account access wechat or alipay/mobile payments while in China? Are they forced to use just cash?
    - westiseast 9y ago
      No idea :) I heard some foreign cards can now be linked to WeChat, but I've never had that problem. Otherwise I guess yes, Visa/Mastercard and cash.
est 9y ago
> because of fairly special market conditions and lack of regulation in China. On the contrary, China has very tight (if not most) financial regulations. E.g. oversea transaction above ￥10,000 need to be reported to central bank. IMHO The secret factor of mobile payments boom in China is infrastructure. Central bank completed near real time cross bank clearing system decade ago. It requires very low fee, has no tech debt like the US. For example, the ACH works by uploading files to FTP and has at least one day delay. In China, it only costs few seconds with 0 fee. Internet giants (网联, Nets Union Clearing Corporation) are in the same position as banks (银联, Unionpay)
- westiseast 9y ago
  You’re talking about strict regulation of cross border payments, which isn’t a market that ecommerce and mobile payments really operate in at all. Bank infrastructure has been a minor factor at best in the adoption/explosion of mobile payments - we’re talking about Wechat and Alipay basically.
  - est 9y ago
    > cross border payments, which isn’t a market that ecommerce and mobile payments really operate in at all Mobile payments are starting to gaining traction in southeast asia. The market is like mainland china 5 years ago. > we’re talking about Wechat and Alipay basically Wechat and alipay both has bank level clearing. Very few people "get" that.

janekm 9y ago

You need a bank account to use Wechat payments, it’s just much more convenient (and small shops don’t typically accept bank card payments). Credit cards are not very popular yet due to cultural norms around spending on credit, though heavily promoted by the banks. Trying to argue that the Chinese finance sector is undeveloped sounds a little uniformed, to tell you the truth...

moosekaka 9y ago

This is such an ignorant comment...everyone has bank accounts in China, probably more so then in the US. You cant access the mobile payments platform in there without a bank account.

mamon 9y ago

You are probably confusing e-payments with cryptocurrency usage - so, for reference: "traditional" e-payments are based on actual bank accounts and inter-bank payment platforms like SWIFT, or credit card payments.

xstartup 9y ago

I think it's not a sign, just a second mover advantage. Those who came later had access to better/faster tech and didn't have to deal with the sunk cost of existing slow technology.

bsaul 9y ago

As others have commented e-payments require bank account. What i think is that the fact we’re still using the same tool for payment before and after the internet and the mobile revolutions is more the symptom of a totally crippled banking sector. Either because of bad regulations, or simply dominant position abuses that has been tolerated for too long.