11 ms·

Poor fitness linked to weaker brain fiber, higher dementia risk

164 points by evo_9 9y ago

IntronExon 9y ago
N=81, including the cohort of cognitively normal subjects, and those with dementia. Mounting evidence showed the self-reported levels of physical activity are positively associated with white matter (WM) integrity and cognitive performance in normal adults and patients with mild cognitive impairment (MCI)... However, the objective measure of cardiorespiratory fitness (CRF) was not used in these studies. Why even bother? At what point does the methodology of a study begin to so closely resemble some guy on a rocking chair saying “ahh reckon,” that we don’t call it science?
- DisruptiveDave 9y ago
  When we stop clicking.
- shoguning 9y ago
  You don't necessarily need a massive sample size to make a solid conclusion, depending on the effect size. You can use statistics to control your error rates.
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    I’ve grown more and more unconvinced by that, especially when it comes to neurobiology and behavior.
- ozborn 9y ago
  There is nothing wrong with N=81 if the effect is large enough. They did use VO2Max to measure CRF.
- Jach 9y ago
  Never. Ever read a parapsychology paper? http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ib/parapsychology_the_control_group_for_science/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ib/parapsychology_the_control_group...
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    Now that was interesting, and thought provoking. While I don’t know enough about the real standards of paranormal researchers, and so can’t really judge the validity of all the assumptions presented, it passes the sniff test. Besides, given the prevalence of things like p-hacking in the mainstream, maybe it doesn’t matter. How disturbing!
- pertymcpert 9y ago
  81?! Not bad at all.
- dang 9y ago
  On HN, could you please not post this sort of shallow, predictable dismissal of other people's work? What we're getting on an internet forum is not informed professional critique of sample sizes, but a clichéd reflex that is well past its best-before date.
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    I apologize, and I’ll make sure that future criticism is. Ore detailed and less cliche.
always_good 9y ago
It amazes me how rare it is for people to exercise. Entering my 30s, a somewhat regular exercise routine is something I expect in the people I date. Yet some of those people reject the idea that it's something they should do at all. They just don't like it the same way a kid doesn't like vegetables, as if that's an option. It blew my mind the first dozen times I'd heard someone say that they just aren't interested in it.
- a_t48 9y ago
  If you didn't start doing it younger, it's a tough habit to get into. I just started exercising twice a week (started in December). It's very hard starting off.
  - MadSudaca 9y ago
    The upside is that once you turn it into a habit and unconsciously, as well as consciously, link it to your health and general well being, you'll be wanting to do it regularly, feeling bad when you don't for some period of time.
  - toyg 9y ago
    Define “younger”. I was super-active until I had ankle problems at 19: football three to four times a week over winter, basketball all summer almost every day, running, and so on. I kept up in my 20s by walking a lot and the semi-periodic footie or basketball game with colleagues, until about 28. Then I bought a car and had kids, and my body exploded. A lot of athletes end up pretty big once they retire. “Starting young” for regular exercise is fundamentally meaningless, imho. It’s much more important to find ways to fit regular exercise in everyday routines that adults with commitments can stick to without having to spend mental energy on it. Whoever can come up with a simple way for a 30-40-yo to keep fit without having to think about it is going to be a bazillionaire. Walking is a good start, but the combination of car-friendly cities, the need to care for minors, and a society constantly running at breakneck speed, makes it an unrealistic choice for most.
- bagacrap 9y ago
  Having active hobbies is key. Many places and climates aren't suited to that though. Dragging yourself to a gym ~every day for years quickly becomes tiresome. People turn to group ex and personal trainers to get through the mental boredom but that's too expensive for many to afford.
Bizarro 9y ago
Once you do start exercising though, you have to watch out to not overdo it. I've found that as I get older, what I would've considered moderate exercise 7-10 years ago, now causes bad moods, brain fog, fatigue, general irritability for a day or two after the workout. And getting enough sleep, drinking a lot of water, and making sure to eat right doesn't seem to completely alleviate the problem completely. It's hard striking that right balance.
- d1zzy 9y ago
  I used to have that when I started cycling (after never doing any sports throughout my whole life, not even the required exercises in school) but it was a combination of doing too much too quickly with not having adapted the rest of my behavior to support it (sleeping, eating, drinking). As they say, finding the right balance is golden.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- king07828 9y ago
  Cannot agree enough. Listen to your body and and make sure to pull back when it tells you to. I like to lift mild weights at night and do mild yoga in the morning (focussing on deep stretches). Helps to keep balance in mind and body.
calvano915 9y ago
I believe this is relevant: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180214093823.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180214093823.h... Title: "Running helps brain stave off effects of chronic stress Exercise protects vital memory and learning functions" It's a study in mice but fascinating results IMHO.
u801e 9y ago
> Not everyone is rich enough to have the time to exercise. You don't have to be rich to find time to exercise. For example, I commute 20 minutes by bike to work. I could easily spend 10 minutes driving instead, but by cycling, I get at least 40 minutes of physical activity in every day. If I wasn't as well off financially, then I would seriously consider selling my car and getting rid of the expenses associated with it and move to full time commuting by bike.
- briankirby 9y ago
  For most people, living biking distance from work is prohibitively expensive.
  - u801e 9y ago
    Commuting by bicycle isn't that uncommon. What do you consider to be biking distance to work? I would say about 10 miles one way is a practical maximum given the amount of time one has for a commute.
nradov 9y ago
Dupe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16387966 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16387966
- dang 9y ago
  On HN it doesn't count as a dupe if the story hasn't had significant attention yet, and the convention is to only link to threads that got some comments. Otherwise people click, feel shortchanged, and get ornery. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
imesh 9y ago
Both my grandfather's and all their brothers got Alzheimer's and they all had regular exercise routines. My mother's father was even running marathons up until he had Alzheimer's. I'm sure it helps but in the end you can't outrun death.
Azeat 9y ago
Speaking from a US perspective, a lot of people have a misconception of what "fitness" means in the first place. They think it means signing up for expensive and unnecessary gym programs and drinking twice your weight in protein. In reality you can do it from anywhere, it's very simple, and there's no excuse besides physical disability or laziness. I work 12 hours everyday and sometimes 16, and yet ever since taking on this job where I sit in front of a computer for the entirety of that shift, I'm in better shape then ever. That's because I've developed a consistent routine of working out. I don't have a schedule or use an app or anything, I just do push-ups when I get home and sometimes when I'm at work too. Instead of using the elevator, I take the stairs. It's just about doing something regularly. For bonus points, get good sleep and eat better. Very personal anecdote on my part but I hate reading "not everyone has time to workout." How much time do you need to do 10 push ups if nothing else?

164 points by evo_9 9y ago

N=81, including the cohort of cognitively normal subjects, and those with dementia. Mounting evidence showed the self-reported levels of physical activity are positively associated with white matter (WM) integrity and cognitive performance in normal adults and patients with mild cognitive impairment (MCI)... However, the objective measure of cardiorespiratory fitness (CRF) was not used in these studies. Why even bother? At what point does the methodology of a study begin to so closely resemble some guy on a rocking chair saying “ahh reckon,” that we don’t call it science?

DisruptiveDave 9y ago
When we stop clicking.
shoguning 9y ago
You don't necessarily need a massive sample size to make a solid conclusion, depending on the effect size. You can use statistics to control your error rates.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  I’ve grown more and more unconvinced by that, especially when it comes to neurobiology and behavior.
ozborn 9y ago
There is nothing wrong with N=81 if the effect is large enough. They did use VO2Max to measure CRF.
Jach 9y ago
Never. Ever read a parapsychology paper? http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ib/parapsychology_the_control_group_for_science/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ib/parapsychology_the_control_group...
- IntronExon 9y ago
  Now that was interesting, and thought provoking. While I don’t know enough about the real standards of paranormal researchers, and so can’t really judge the validity of all the assumptions presented, it passes the sniff test. Besides, given the prevalence of things like p-hacking in the mainstream, maybe it doesn’t matter. How disturbing!
pertymcpert 9y ago
81?! Not bad at all.
dang 9y ago
On HN, could you please not post this sort of shallow, predictable dismissal of other people's work? What we're getting on an internet forum is not informed professional critique of sample sizes, but a clichéd reflex that is well past its best-before date.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  I apologize, and I’ll make sure that future criticism is. Ore detailed and less cliche.

always_good 9y ago

It amazes me how rare it is for people to exercise. Entering my 30s, a somewhat regular exercise routine is something I expect in the people I date. Yet some of those people reject the idea that it's something they should do at all. They just don't like it the same way a kid doesn't like vegetables, as if that's an option. It blew my mind the first dozen times I'd heard someone say that they just aren't interested in it.

a_t48 9y ago
If you didn't start doing it younger, it's a tough habit to get into. I just started exercising twice a week (started in December). It's very hard starting off.
- MadSudaca 9y ago
  The upside is that once you turn it into a habit and unconsciously, as well as consciously, link it to your health and general well being, you'll be wanting to do it regularly, feeling bad when you don't for some period of time.
- toyg 9y ago
  Define “younger”. I was super-active until I had ankle problems at 19: football three to four times a week over winter, basketball all summer almost every day, running, and so on. I kept up in my 20s by walking a lot and the semi-periodic footie or basketball game with colleagues, until about 28. Then I bought a car and had kids, and my body exploded. A lot of athletes end up pretty big once they retire. “Starting young” for regular exercise is fundamentally meaningless, imho. It’s much more important to find ways to fit regular exercise in everyday routines that adults with commitments can stick to without having to spend mental energy on it. Whoever can come up with a simple way for a 30-40-yo to keep fit without having to think about it is going to be a bazillionaire. Walking is a good start, but the combination of car-friendly cities, the need to care for minors, and a society constantly running at breakneck speed, makes it an unrealistic choice for most.
bagacrap 9y ago
Having active hobbies is key. Many places and climates aren't suited to that though. Dragging yourself to a gym ~every day for years quickly becomes tiresome. People turn to group ex and personal trainers to get through the mental boredom but that's too expensive for many to afford.

Bizarro 9y ago

Once you do start exercising though, you have to watch out to not overdo it. I've found that as I get older, what I would've considered moderate exercise 7-10 years ago, now causes bad moods, brain fog, fatigue, general irritability for a day or two after the workout. And getting enough sleep, drinking a lot of water, and making sure to eat right doesn't seem to completely alleviate the problem completely. It's hard striking that right balance.

d1zzy 9y ago
I used to have that when I started cycling (after never doing any sports throughout my whole life, not even the required exercises in school) but it was a combination of doing too much too quickly with not having adapted the rest of my behavior to support it (sleeping, eating, drinking). As they say, finding the right balance is golden.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
king07828 9y ago
Cannot agree enough. Listen to your body and and make sure to pull back when it tells you to. I like to lift mild weights at night and do mild yoga in the morning (focussing on deep stretches). Helps to keep balance in mind and body.

calvano915 9y ago

I believe this is relevant: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180214093823.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180214093823.h... Title: "Running helps brain stave off effects of chronic stress Exercise protects vital memory and learning functions" It's a study in mice but fascinating results IMHO.

u801e 9y ago

> Not everyone is rich enough to have the time to exercise. You don't have to be rich to find time to exercise. For example, I commute 20 minutes by bike to work. I could easily spend 10 minutes driving instead, but by cycling, I get at least 40 minutes of physical activity in every day. If I wasn't as well off financially, then I would seriously consider selling my car and getting rid of the expenses associated with it and move to full time commuting by bike.

briankirby 9y ago
For most people, living biking distance from work is prohibitively expensive.
- u801e 9y ago
  Commuting by bicycle isn't that uncommon. What do you consider to be biking distance to work? I would say about 10 miles one way is a practical maximum given the amount of time one has for a commute.

nradov 9y ago

Dupe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16387966 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16387966

dang 9y ago
On HN it doesn't count as a dupe if the story hasn't had significant attention yet, and the convention is to only link to threads that got some comments. Otherwise people click, feel shortchanged, and get ornery. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

imesh 9y ago

Both my grandfather's and all their brothers got Alzheimer's and they all had regular exercise routines. My mother's father was even running marathons up until he had Alzheimer's. I'm sure it helps but in the end you can't outrun death.

Azeat 9y ago

Speaking from a US perspective, a lot of people have a misconception of what "fitness" means in the first place. They think it means signing up for expensive and unnecessary gym programs and drinking twice your weight in protein. In reality you can do it from anywhere, it's very simple, and there's no excuse besides physical disability or laziness. I work 12 hours everyday and sometimes 16, and yet ever since taking on this job where I sit in front of a computer for the entirety of that shift, I'm in better shape then ever. That's because I've developed a consistent routine of working out. I don't have a schedule or use an app or anything, I just do push-ups when I get home and sometimes when I'm at work too. Instead of using the elevator, I take the stairs. It's just about doing something regularly. For bonus points, get good sleep and eat better. Very personal anecdote on my part but I hate reading "not everyone has time to workout." How much time do you need to do 10 push ups if nothing else?