15 ms·

I was out shopping 3-4 days before Christmas this year, and happened to be near a Barnes and Noble so figured I'd grab a copy of a magazine I've been wanting to

by phil21 9y ago

I was out shopping 3-4 days before Christmas this year, and happened to be near a Barnes and Noble so figured I'd grab a copy of a magazine I've been wanting to read for a while. Grabbed the magazine, wandered the aisles a bit and picked up another book then went to check out. Basically I was their marketing department's dream - walk-in traffic coming to buy something cheap and specific who made an impulse retail buy of a much higher margin item. The checkout line was at least 50 people long and probably estimated at over an hour. Two cashiers working out of 8 or so possible registers, and as far as I could tell a singular employee on the floor itself. I put my selections back and walked out the door. Granted it was near peak shopping season - but that was inexcusable. There were quite a lot of really pissed off looking people in that line. So that is to say my experience lines up with the article. They entirely botched their Christmas season and it wasn't the employee's or consumer demand's fault. Just that one store bled hundreds of dollars in lost sales just from the 5 minutes I watched people walk in and immediately out after seeing the line.

mistersquid 9y ago
This makes me wonder why physical retail stores don't follow Apple's approach by developing an app so shoppers can self-check out.
- Bud 9y ago
  Because it takes more than just an app. Plus, that app isn't that easy.
- acdha 9y ago
  They’ve been chasing cost reduction for many years, reducing investment in total and in that specific case I’d bet they have considerable worries about shoplifting.
- awalton 9y ago
  The app would likely be more expensive to develop and maintain than hiring a few seasonal part-timers per store (2000 people at, let's face it, minimum wage for a month is about $4M that immediately converts to sales numbers just by being conscious enough to operate a register - that's cheaper than ~10 software devs in America (at least two of which are specialists - iOS/Android devs), a manager, an office, their equipment and their benefits packages that takes a year to 18-months to produce anything at all). Maybe outsourcing it would be cheaper... but even then, your conversion rate is going to be lower than just hiring a damned cashier. And apparently B&N was against even spending for that, even during heavy sales periods. If I were a shareholder before I wouldn't be after reading this news - I'd be going and buying Amazon stock. And a lot of this explains why Amazon has been crushing Wal-Mart - people are just done with going to stores and waiting in lines, looking around at empty cashier stations in frustration when they can point, click, and have something on their doorstep the next day with less effort.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Of all the criticisms one might make of Walmart, being slow to check people out I'd say would be about last on my list.
    - macintux 9y ago
      Must depend on where you are, unless you’re making a broader point about their awfulness.
      - emodendroket 9y ago
        Every Walmart I've been to they're shuffling people out at pretty impressive speeds.
        natecavanaugh 9y ago
        Next thing, you're going to tell me Santa is real ;). Every Walmart I've ever gone to, their checkout system is terribly slow. Their self checkout is better but still gets overwhelmed easily.
        emodendroket 9y ago
        Do you have a Walmart Super Center? I wonder if it has to do with store size.
        natecavanaugh 9y ago
        I do. There are actually a few different kinds of Walmarts around that I have visited, and it's generally the same story. I think it's a time based thing, not so much size, IMO. It seems like no matter how large or what they offer, their prices draw crowds, and they both understaff, and either under train, or make sure to put the slowest humans on Earth as the cashiers. But the time criteria is best said in terms of when to go, since that's a much narrower window than when not to go.
- selectodude 9y ago
  Apple has a sky high budget for shoplifting. They have no issue with somebody walking out with an iPhone case because it implies they bought an iPhone. Barnes and Noble would be decimated by that.
  - skinnymuch 9y ago
    Is there a citation for this? I’d be interested in knowing if this is really true.
- commandar 9y ago
  Walmart and Sam's Club have exactly that with their Pay & Go app. You scan the UPCs on things as you put them in your cart. When you're done, you select pay and it displays a barcode on your screen. The checker at the door has a handheld device that they scan the barcode with, it gives them an item count, and you're on your way. I've only ever used it at Sam's where there's always a door checker. I've heard it can be more of a pain to use at Walmarts because the door people don't always have the handheld around and have to go hunt it down. Really, it shouldn't be surprising that they'd be a company willing to experiment in this field. Cutting labor costs to an extreme (which is actually one of the reasons I avoid Walmarts, but that's another rant) is pretty central to how they operate. And they became the behemoth they are by innovating in logistics. People often forget that they were a key figure in driving the adoption of product barcodes in the first place.
ekianjo 9y ago
This happens in a lot of places. The shopping experience may be nice but the actual payment experience is atrocious. Honestly if I have to wait more than 10 minutes to pay for something, I just don't buy anything, or purchase online instead. Even if there are long queues, there are many ways you could improve the experience - for example get an automatic ticket to get "in line" in the system, and get called when it's your turn - at the same time you can continue looking at more items instead of wasting your time in line.
- tnolet 9y ago
  Many train stations in the Netherlands have book and magazine shops with "self checkout". Basically a scanner & screen like you see at Ikea. Works great in rush hour when these places are packed with people buying morning newspapers and such.
  - reaperducer 9y ago
    Things like this are why I love Apple's self-checkout system at its stores. No need to even go to a checkout; just scan the item with your phone, and it's paid for. I sometimes feel like a shoplifter on my way out, but nobody's ever looked at me sideways. More than once I've decided to pick up an adapter or headphones or a hard drive at the Apple Store instead of Fry's or Best Buy or Target because of the iPhone checkout.
rayiner 9y ago
But the rest of the year, the stores are empty. Which validated the company's decision: why have a bunch of full time employees, when what it really needs is part time and flexible employees to handle holiday surges (probably caused by waiting for Amazon shipping to not be an option).
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Institutional knowledge and loyalty. Your entire staff can’t be flex workers if you expect customers to be treated properly (see: Apple retail for how it’s done well). Even still, see how Amazon’s flex/contractors handle deliveries (ie atrociously, as there is no incentive to care) vs UPS (a union shop). You have to align incentives. Your employees’ success is your success. Otherwise, close up shop and go home. You’ve already lost.
  - ukulele 9y ago
    Comparing the level of customer care at a bookstore with that of an Apple store is pretty unfair. Apple makes hundreds or thousands of margin dollars per customer; a bookstore is probably closer to $10.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      A better comparison would be Starbucks considering the margins. Not everyone needs to have Apple margins to compensate their retail employees above minimum wage (considering the $14 million dollars Barnes and Noble executives have siphoned off already).
      - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
        considering the $14 million dollars Barnes and Noble executives have siphoned off already I don't know, $14mm for the executive team of a company with tens of thousands of employees and 600+ stores doesn't seem crazy to me. Maybe you think that smart, capable, experienced executives grow on trees, but you're wrong. And what smart, capable, experienced executive would ever want to take this job when they probably have much better options with companies who aren't dying? Would you want to go be lead developer on the Nook team right now, knowing that you probably won't have a job for long, that your equity will be declining in value, that it'll be miserable unless you can miraculously figure out a way to turn things around? Would it be unreasonable for you to only be interested in doing that if you were getting paid very well?
itronitron 9y ago
Whenever I have ordered online from BN the shipping has taken a ridiculously long time, as in weeks not days. I'm not a huge fan of Amazon so if BN had at least been able to do 2-3 day shipping they would have had my business. Regarding their retail experience, it wouldn't surprise me if some executive is selling them on the concept of long checkout lines as it results in people buying more books from the discount tables at the front. It is very unfortunate that corporate dictates operational policy to individual stores like that, I have always only had positive experiences with BN employees so I wish them well.
wnevets 9y ago
Just another case of business being penny smart and dollar dumb. "Traditional" media did the exact same thing when faced with competition from the internet. They reduced the quality of their service & product when they saw a reduction in customers which only fueled a further reduction in customers, rinse and repeat til death.
- mattmanser 9y ago
  It looks more like the idea that paying CEOs lots of money because they are worth it really isn't working. Because they aren't worth it.
  - goldenkey 9y ago
    Well a good CEO would ideally be someone who understands the intricacies and drawbacks of cost-cutting measures. Unfortunately, the intersection between CEOs with large personal networks, and actual chops is vanishingly small. Most experienced employees working at B&N could probably do a better job than the current CEO. But they don't play golf and know the CEOs of other large companies.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    "The salary of the chief executive of a large corporation is not a market award for achievement. It is frequently in the nature of a warm personal gesture by the individual to himself." -- JK Galbraith In certain failing businesses, the activities of senior management aren't directed towards trying to save the sinking ship, but to free up as much cashflow as possible and direct it to themselves. Rather than the creditors who would get it in bankruptcy. MG Rover is my go-to example, but there are plenty: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/may/08/mg-rover-directors-banned-collapse https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/may/08/mg-rover-di...
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    They're worth it to themselves. This is what you get when your business culture rewards quick profit-taking by a small sub-class of actors over long-term business building that benefits customers and employees. It's more profitable - personally - to asset strip a struggling company, even if it still has prospects, good will, and loyal employees, than to put in the creativity and hard work needed to make it prosper.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
KevanM 9y ago
This happened to me yesterday - I ordered a book from Waterstones and popped out at lunchtime to pick it up. The collection desk is the same desk as the front of the store (there are payment desks on each floor of the store) and it was rammed. I ordered on Amazon instead of waiting. All they have to do is put a sign saying collections are on X floor and it would be a better all round experience. I also noticed that people were queuing and then asking if so-and-so book was in stock. How is this efficient?
eludwig 9y ago
>>Two cashiers working out of 8 or so possible registers And the worst part about this is that each cashier seems determined to relentlessly pester me with annoying questions at the register! Did I want to join this loyalty program? Did I realize that I could save $5 by signing up for so and so. Do I want to get on the B&N mailing list? Really aggressive questioning. Oh my God. I realize that the cashiers have been ordered to do this (I assume) but knock it off already! This is so consumer unfriendly. I just want to pay and go. I'm sure that this also delays checkout times significantly over the course of a day. This is one of the main reasons I use Amazon when possible. Retail checkout in the US has become a one-way grilling. You end up leaving the store feeling like a murder suspect.
- bluedino 9y ago
  >> Retail checkout in the US has become a one-way grilling. At one point Best Buy was trying to get you to sign up for MAGAZINE SUBSCRIPTIONS at checkout. Who thought that was a good idea?
  - mgkimsal 9y ago
    > Who thought that was a good idea? A bunch of corporate people who never had to ask someone face to face about buying stupid shit after they've already decided what they want, and a bunch of corporate people who never actually shop at their own stores.
    - frandroid 9y ago
      Have you ever heard of "rhetorical questions?"
      - Sangermaine 9y ago
        No, what are they?
- avs733 9y ago
  >Oh my God. I realize that the cashiers have been ordered to do this (I assume) but knock it off already! Why should they? If they don't they will get fired. Business goes up or down that cashier doesn't get paid more or less...they have no incentive to risk their job for a customer. These companies are so obsessed with squeezing a nickle out of 5% of their customers because they can _measure_ that. Its 'impossible' to measure losses like you with any granularity, so it doesn't matter. They 'can't' incentivize it.
bluedino 9y ago
What retailer doesn't have long lines 3 days before Christmas?
- deadbunny 9y ago
  What retailer doesn't make sure they have all checkouts open when you have 50 customers in line?
rlonstein 9y ago
> The checkout line was at least 50 people long and probably estimated at over an hour. Two cashiers working out of 8 or so possible registers, and as far as I could tell a singular employee on the floor itself. This is a perfect instance for self-checkout kiosks. They're everywhere: big retailers like Target, chain groceries, national pharmacies, home improvement stores, and they're turning up in smaller places and even fast food venues. This suggests to me that the kiosk price is dropping and there's less reason to have empty registers and long lines except for deliberate ignorance.
- amygdyl 9y ago
  Tesco stores in London are removing from self checkout kiosks cash payment. A middle size store in the City, two sides of a aisle, left accept cash, on the right the machines only accept cards. The card only kiosks were all vacant. On the left, backing up a frustrated queue tailing behind me another twenty people at least, were a dozen self checkout kiosks, all confounding anyone's ability to pay for any goods. With the random completion of the process, the queue for the cash kiosks became chaotic. It was about 11pm. The store was otherwise almost empty. In other words, people were able to"do all their shopping" quickly, and then spend considerably more time being pissed off, probably like me, also unable to price see several items before getting to the kiosk, which is not a uncertainty I much care for. At the kiosk, I realized I needed a carrier bag, and asked for one, none being visible. "A ten pence one is fine!" I said hopefully, the mandatory five pence ones nowhere. "We've only those." He said, pointing to one pound fifty fancy bags. Off I went, my basket left behind me. No sale. Last night. Another Tesco store. This one has had random kiosks changed to accept card only. So I asked, as I approached the head of the queue and was told... This store doesn't accept cash. Another abandoned basket. I have been able to complete less than half of every attempt at shopping in the second of those two stores, walking out each time over two years. Sainsbury's stock was paying ten percent dividends,last I looked. I see a classic long - short position.
- exhilaration 9y ago
  There was an article posted 2 weeks ago on HN about how (some) stores are scaling back on self-checkout because it's causing their theft rates to rise: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16293747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16293747
PaulHoule 9y ago
When I've gone to Barnes and Noble recently, I've found editions of books in prominent places that were poorly printed. For instance, one hardcover with a fancy binding had very thin/transparent pages to the extent that the text was less legible. Don't get me started about the trade paperbacks that I suspect will have the binding break immediately. I wonder if Barnes and Noble sells reduced quality books the same way that Wal*Mart gets brands to make cheaper but reduced quality versions of their products for their stores. Either way it turns me off. They are pretty good at getting me into the store to use my laptop at the Starbucks or for when my son is doing a group project and the other students are meeting there -- only to immediately turn me off with inferior products. As in the story above, bad experiences don't just cost a sale immediately, but they might cost all future sales from that customer.
- smelendez 9y ago
  I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. I had the same experience and it made the store seem a bit scammy lately. A lot of the cheaply made books also seemed geared toward older people: they were either about the 1940s-1960s, or were the kinds of public domain classics a grandparent would buy a grandchild (Robinson Crusoe, The Arabian Knights) in outwardly fancy but actually poor quality editions. It's especially a shame because Barnes & Noble classics editions from 10 or 15 years ago are actually very nice.
  - smogcutter 9y ago
    Side note for those buying books for their grandchildren: Arabian Nights includes a great deal more sex than you might assume.
- DaveWalk 9y ago
  Super interesting. For the bibliophiles out there, I wonder how bad this is getting industry-wide? Does it happen at indie book sellers, Wal Mart, and Amazon too? Certainly I have put down books that were made way too cheaply, and I have impulse-purchased books that are exceptionally well-designed.
83457 9y ago
I'm always amazed also at how slow cashiers can be. I worked at walmart nearly 20 years ago and briefly they had a bonus for speed. All of the "career" retail cashiers got pissed because new employees who had only been there for a couple months started making more than them, being twice as fast. Visiting walmart and some other stores when there are long lines can be excrutiating as I see cashiers just not caring about speed while wasting time of people in line. Customers should not be able to scan a full cart of items in self-checkout faster than the average cashier.
FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>I put my selections back and walked out the door. Granted it was near peak shopping season - but that was inexcusable. Scaling retail is hard. Especially if you're against "be on call 24/7 for minimum wage without additional on call compensation". They could buy self-checkout terminals, though, but I imagine they don't want assets like that and would rather let the business fail. That's the writing on the wall (if not the stock trend)
- wfo 9y ago
  Or, alternately, the company could do what every other company in existence does and what B&N has always done and have people work during what they know will be the busiest time of the year instead of sending everyone home, destroying the company and letting the CEO pocket the savings.
- phxrsg 9y ago
  Scaling retail is hard to get perfect to the same precision of auto-scaling AWS, maybe, but scaling to an acceptable (measured in profit and customer satisfaction) level really isn't. Or rather, the solution is known. Especially in December - during prime holiday shopping hours - you staff up. It's more profitable to have a little bit of employee slack time than to have customer satisfaction way down and customers walking out without buying things. This is a bad take - the whole "oh retail will die without self-checkout terminals" overlooks the realities of retail, what consumers want when they choose to go into an actual brick and mortar store, and how businesses can succeed. And it does so in a way that perpetuates the implication that we have to treat employees like computers to be successful.
  - FLUX-YOU 9y ago
    >It's more profitable to have a little bit of employee slack time than to have customer satisfaction way down and customers walking out without buying things. For big box stores, but B&N are on the decline, while real estate and lease prices have likely risen. "you staff up" works when you can actually pay for the excess, but B&N clearly don't want to. But you missed the point of my take in that they aren't willing to invest in assets for customer satisfaction. They're on the way out, so why would they care to staff up for holidays either?
frogpelt 9y ago
Imagine if stores had a way for you to pay for your physical stuff on your phone without waiting in a physical line. 1. Use their app to scan the bar code 2. Pay with a card 3. A self-service printer prints a receipt/confirmation of purchase. 4. Show it to an employee on your way out the door. Might be an inventory nightmare, but it could be done.
- mitjak 9y ago
  Or just set up self-serve stations. Literally every item has a barcode.
- wccrawford 9y ago
  By "inventory nightmare" you mean "theft", right? Because that's the real problem. There are already self-serve lines in many stores, but they still have to watch people to try to prevent theft. And it turns out people are really, really slow if they aren't trained as a cashier. Sure, the cellphone eliminates the slowdown, but it also eliminates the primary way they currently prevent theft. Amazon is working on a store that works a lot like you said, with your cellphone, but doesn't rely on the customer doing anything other than logging in. After that, tons of cameras take care of the rest.
  - Spoom 9y ago
    Imagine that each piece of inventory had a per-item unique RFID permanently attached to it. Not just a model unique RFID, unique to that particular instance. Imagine that your phone can read that RFID. Your phone also has an app that can connect to a database, identify the particular product that the RFID represents, and complete a transaction online. Once the transaction is complete, the store's security systems are updated so that that RFID can pass through the entrance scanners without the alarm going off. Potential pitfalls include the cost of the RFIDs, the ability to detach the RFIDs at any point, the ability to read the RFID on your phone, and alternative entrance / exits of merchandise (e.g. toss through a window). Are there other reasons that this could not work?
- heedlessly2 9y ago
  more self-service kiosks would be an easier solution rather than building an entire new system. If you used your phone, then it would easy to shoplift. Buy 7 items, but "forget" to scan the last two. Self-service kiosks at least prevents this with weight sensors, cameras, and a human kiosk manager.
csomar 9y ago
Even worse. I wasn't able to buy online from them. My credit card charge was declined (two different cards). I contacted the Card bank and they said that it is B&N that cancelled the sale. I contacted B&N support and they gave me a response that it is due to their fraud detection service. There was no solution to buy. They didn't offer PayPal or another gateway. So I had to walk away.

by phil21 9y ago

mistersquid 9y ago

This makes me wonder why physical retail stores don't follow Apple's approach by developing an app so shoppers can self-check out.

Bud 9y ago
Because it takes more than just an app. Plus, that app isn't that easy.
acdha 9y ago
They’ve been chasing cost reduction for many years, reducing investment in total and in that specific case I’d bet they have considerable worries about shoplifting.
awalton 9y ago
The app would likely be more expensive to develop and maintain than hiring a few seasonal part-timers per store (2000 people at, let's face it, minimum wage for a month is about $4M that immediately converts to sales numbers just by being conscious enough to operate a register - that's cheaper than ~10 software devs in America (at least two of which are specialists - iOS/Android devs), a manager, an office, their equipment and their benefits packages that takes a year to 18-months to produce anything at all). Maybe outsourcing it would be cheaper... but even then, your conversion rate is going to be lower than just hiring a damned cashier. And apparently B&N was against even spending for that, even during heavy sales periods. If I were a shareholder before I wouldn't be after reading this news - I'd be going and buying Amazon stock. And a lot of this explains why Amazon has been crushing Wal-Mart - people are just done with going to stores and waiting in lines, looking around at empty cashier stations in frustration when they can point, click, and have something on their doorstep the next day with less effort.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Of all the criticisms one might make of Walmart, being slow to check people out I'd say would be about last on my list.
  - macintux 9y ago
    Must depend on where you are, unless you’re making a broader point about their awfulness.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      Every Walmart I've been to they're shuffling people out at pretty impressive speeds.
      - natecavanaugh 9y ago
        Next thing, you're going to tell me Santa is real ;). Every Walmart I've ever gone to, their checkout system is terribly slow. Their self checkout is better but still gets overwhelmed easily.
        emodendroket 9y ago
        Do you have a Walmart Super Center? I wonder if it has to do with store size.
        natecavanaugh 9y ago
        I do. There are actually a few different kinds of Walmarts around that I have visited, and it's generally the same story. I think it's a time based thing, not so much size, IMO. It seems like no matter how large or what they offer, their prices draw crowds, and they both understaff, and either under train, or make sure to put the slowest humans on Earth as the cashiers. But the time criteria is best said in terms of when to go, since that's a much narrower window than when not to go.
selectodude 9y ago
Apple has a sky high budget for shoplifting. They have no issue with somebody walking out with an iPhone case because it implies they bought an iPhone. Barnes and Noble would be decimated by that.
- skinnymuch 9y ago
  Is there a citation for this? I’d be interested in knowing if this is really true.
commandar 9y ago
Walmart and Sam's Club have exactly that with their Pay & Go app. You scan the UPCs on things as you put them in your cart. When you're done, you select pay and it displays a barcode on your screen. The checker at the door has a handheld device that they scan the barcode with, it gives them an item count, and you're on your way. I've only ever used it at Sam's where there's always a door checker. I've heard it can be more of a pain to use at Walmarts because the door people don't always have the handheld around and have to go hunt it down. Really, it shouldn't be surprising that they'd be a company willing to experiment in this field. Cutting labor costs to an extreme (which is actually one of the reasons I avoid Walmarts, but that's another rant) is pretty central to how they operate. And they became the behemoth they are by innovating in logistics. People often forget that they were a key figure in driving the adoption of product barcodes in the first place.

ekianjo 9y ago

This happens in a lot of places. The shopping experience may be nice but the actual payment experience is atrocious. Honestly if I have to wait more than 10 minutes to pay for something, I just don't buy anything, or purchase online instead. Even if there are long queues, there are many ways you could improve the experience - for example get an automatic ticket to get "in line" in the system, and get called when it's your turn - at the same time you can continue looking at more items instead of wasting your time in line.

tnolet 9y ago
Many train stations in the Netherlands have book and magazine shops with "self checkout". Basically a scanner & screen like you see at Ikea. Works great in rush hour when these places are packed with people buying morning newspapers and such.
- reaperducer 9y ago
  Things like this are why I love Apple's self-checkout system at its stores. No need to even go to a checkout; just scan the item with your phone, and it's paid for. I sometimes feel like a shoplifter on my way out, but nobody's ever looked at me sideways. More than once I've decided to pick up an adapter or headphones or a hard drive at the Apple Store instead of Fry's or Best Buy or Target because of the iPhone checkout.

rayiner 9y ago

But the rest of the year, the stores are empty. Which validated the company's decision: why have a bunch of full time employees, when what it really needs is part time and flexible employees to handle holiday surges (probably caused by waiting for Amazon shipping to not be an option).

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Institutional knowledge and loyalty. Your entire staff can’t be flex workers if you expect customers to be treated properly (see: Apple retail for how it’s done well). Even still, see how Amazon’s flex/contractors handle deliveries (ie atrociously, as there is no incentive to care) vs UPS (a union shop). You have to align incentives. Your employees’ success is your success. Otherwise, close up shop and go home. You’ve already lost.
- ukulele 9y ago
  Comparing the level of customer care at a bookstore with that of an Apple store is pretty unfair. Apple makes hundreds or thousands of margin dollars per customer; a bookstore is probably closer to $10.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    A better comparison would be Starbucks considering the margins. Not everyone needs to have Apple margins to compensate their retail employees above minimum wage (considering the $14 million dollars Barnes and Noble executives have siphoned off already).
    - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
      considering the $14 million dollars Barnes and Noble executives have siphoned off already I don't know, $14mm for the executive team of a company with tens of thousands of employees and 600+ stores doesn't seem crazy to me. Maybe you think that smart, capable, experienced executives grow on trees, but you're wrong. And what smart, capable, experienced executive would ever want to take this job when they probably have much better options with companies who aren't dying? Would you want to go be lead developer on the Nook team right now, knowing that you probably won't have a job for long, that your equity will be declining in value, that it'll be miserable unless you can miraculously figure out a way to turn things around? Would it be unreasonable for you to only be interested in doing that if you were getting paid very well?

itronitron 9y ago

Whenever I have ordered online from BN the shipping has taken a ridiculously long time, as in weeks not days. I'm not a huge fan of Amazon so if BN had at least been able to do 2-3 day shipping they would have had my business. Regarding their retail experience, it wouldn't surprise me if some executive is selling them on the concept of long checkout lines as it results in people buying more books from the discount tables at the front. It is very unfortunate that corporate dictates operational policy to individual stores like that, I have always only had positive experiences with BN employees so I wish them well.

wnevets 9y ago

Just another case of business being penny smart and dollar dumb. "Traditional" media did the exact same thing when faced with competition from the internet. They reduced the quality of their service & product when they saw a reduction in customers which only fueled a further reduction in customers, rinse and repeat til death.

mattmanser 9y ago
It looks more like the idea that paying CEOs lots of money because they are worth it really isn't working. Because they aren't worth it.
- goldenkey 9y ago
  Well a good CEO would ideally be someone who understands the intricacies and drawbacks of cost-cutting measures. Unfortunately, the intersection between CEOs with large personal networks, and actual chops is vanishingly small. Most experienced employees working at B&N could probably do a better job than the current CEO. But they don't play golf and know the CEOs of other large companies.
- pjc50 9y ago
  "The salary of the chief executive of a large corporation is not a market award for achievement. It is frequently in the nature of a warm personal gesture by the individual to himself." -- JK Galbraith In certain failing businesses, the activities of senior management aren't directed towards trying to save the sinking ship, but to free up as much cashflow as possible and direct it to themselves. Rather than the creditors who would get it in bankruptcy. MG Rover is my go-to example, but there are plenty: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/may/08/mg-rover-directors-banned-collapse https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/may/08/mg-rover-di...
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  They're worth it to themselves. This is what you get when your business culture rewards quick profit-taking by a small sub-class of actors over long-term business building that benefits customers and employees. It's more profitable - personally - to asset strip a struggling company, even if it still has prospects, good will, and loyal employees, than to put in the creativity and hard work needed to make it prosper.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

KevanM 9y ago

This happened to me yesterday - I ordered a book from Waterstones and popped out at lunchtime to pick it up. The collection desk is the same desk as the front of the store (there are payment desks on each floor of the store) and it was rammed. I ordered on Amazon instead of waiting. All they have to do is put a sign saying collections are on X floor and it would be a better all round experience. I also noticed that people were queuing and then asking if so-and-so book was in stock. How is this efficient?

eludwig 9y ago

>>Two cashiers working out of 8 or so possible registers And the worst part about this is that each cashier seems determined to relentlessly pester me with annoying questions at the register! Did I want to join this loyalty program? Did I realize that I could save $5 by signing up for so and so. Do I want to get on the B&N mailing list? Really aggressive questioning. Oh my God. I realize that the cashiers have been ordered to do this (I assume) but knock it off already! This is so consumer unfriendly. I just want to pay and go. I'm sure that this also delays checkout times significantly over the course of a day. This is one of the main reasons I use Amazon when possible. Retail checkout in the US has become a one-way grilling. You end up leaving the store feeling like a murder suspect.

bluedino 9y ago
>> Retail checkout in the US has become a one-way grilling. At one point Best Buy was trying to get you to sign up for MAGAZINE SUBSCRIPTIONS at checkout. Who thought that was a good idea?
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  > Who thought that was a good idea? A bunch of corporate people who never had to ask someone face to face about buying stupid shit after they've already decided what they want, and a bunch of corporate people who never actually shop at their own stores.
  - frandroid 9y ago
    Have you ever heard of "rhetorical questions?"
    - Sangermaine 9y ago
      No, what are they?
avs733 9y ago
>Oh my God. I realize that the cashiers have been ordered to do this (I assume) but knock it off already! Why should they? If they don't they will get fired. Business goes up or down that cashier doesn't get paid more or less...they have no incentive to risk their job for a customer. These companies are so obsessed with squeezing a nickle out of 5% of their customers because they can _measure_ that. Its 'impossible' to measure losses like you with any granularity, so it doesn't matter. They 'can't' incentivize it.

bluedino 9y ago

What retailer doesn't have long lines 3 days before Christmas?

deadbunny 9y ago
What retailer doesn't make sure they have all checkouts open when you have 50 customers in line?

rlonstein 9y ago

> The checkout line was at least 50 people long and probably estimated at over an hour. Two cashiers working out of 8 or so possible registers, and as far as I could tell a singular employee on the floor itself. This is a perfect instance for self-checkout kiosks. They're everywhere: big retailers like Target, chain groceries, national pharmacies, home improvement stores, and they're turning up in smaller places and even fast food venues. This suggests to me that the kiosk price is dropping and there's less reason to have empty registers and long lines except for deliberate ignorance.

amygdyl 9y ago
Tesco stores in London are removing from self checkout kiosks cash payment. A middle size store in the City, two sides of a aisle, left accept cash, on the right the machines only accept cards. The card only kiosks were all vacant. On the left, backing up a frustrated queue tailing behind me another twenty people at least, were a dozen self checkout kiosks, all confounding anyone's ability to pay for any goods. With the random completion of the process, the queue for the cash kiosks became chaotic. It was about 11pm. The store was otherwise almost empty. In other words, people were able to"do all their shopping" quickly, and then spend considerably more time being pissed off, probably like me, also unable to price see several items before getting to the kiosk, which is not a uncertainty I much care for. At the kiosk, I realized I needed a carrier bag, and asked for one, none being visible. "A ten pence one is fine!" I said hopefully, the mandatory five pence ones nowhere. "We've only those." He said, pointing to one pound fifty fancy bags. Off I went, my basket left behind me. No sale. Last night. Another Tesco store. This one has had random kiosks changed to accept card only. So I asked, as I approached the head of the queue and was told... This store doesn't accept cash. Another abandoned basket. I have been able to complete less than half of every attempt at shopping in the second of those two stores, walking out each time over two years. Sainsbury's stock was paying ten percent dividends,last I looked. I see a classic long - short position.
exhilaration 9y ago
There was an article posted 2 weeks ago on HN about how (some) stores are scaling back on self-checkout because it's causing their theft rates to rise: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16293747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16293747

PaulHoule 9y ago

When I've gone to Barnes and Noble recently, I've found editions of books in prominent places that were poorly printed. For instance, one hardcover with a fancy binding had very thin/transparent pages to the extent that the text was less legible. Don't get me started about the trade paperbacks that I suspect will have the binding break immediately. I wonder if Barnes and Noble sells reduced quality books the same way that Wal*Mart gets brands to make cheaper but reduced quality versions of their products for their stores. Either way it turns me off. They are pretty good at getting me into the store to use my laptop at the Starbucks or for when my son is doing a group project and the other students are meeting there -- only to immediately turn me off with inferior products. As in the story above, bad experiences don't just cost a sale immediately, but they might cost all future sales from that customer.

smelendez 9y ago
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. I had the same experience and it made the store seem a bit scammy lately. A lot of the cheaply made books also seemed geared toward older people: they were either about the 1940s-1960s, or were the kinds of public domain classics a grandparent would buy a grandchild (Robinson Crusoe, The Arabian Knights) in outwardly fancy but actually poor quality editions. It's especially a shame because Barnes & Noble classics editions from 10 or 15 years ago are actually very nice.
- smogcutter 9y ago
  Side note for those buying books for their grandchildren: Arabian Nights includes a great deal more sex than you might assume.
DaveWalk 9y ago
Super interesting. For the bibliophiles out there, I wonder how bad this is getting industry-wide? Does it happen at indie book sellers, Wal Mart, and Amazon too? Certainly I have put down books that were made way too cheaply, and I have impulse-purchased books that are exceptionally well-designed.

83457 9y ago

I'm always amazed also at how slow cashiers can be. I worked at walmart nearly 20 years ago and briefly they had a bonus for speed. All of the "career" retail cashiers got pissed because new employees who had only been there for a couple months started making more than them, being twice as fast. Visiting walmart and some other stores when there are long lines can be excrutiating as I see cashiers just not caring about speed while wasting time of people in line. Customers should not be able to scan a full cart of items in self-checkout faster than the average cashier.

FLUX-YOU 9y ago

>I put my selections back and walked out the door. Granted it was near peak shopping season - but that was inexcusable. Scaling retail is hard. Especially if you're against "be on call 24/7 for minimum wage without additional on call compensation". They could buy self-checkout terminals, though, but I imagine they don't want assets like that and would rather let the business fail. That's the writing on the wall (if not the stock trend)

wfo 9y ago
Or, alternately, the company could do what every other company in existence does and what B&N has always done and have people work during what they know will be the busiest time of the year instead of sending everyone home, destroying the company and letting the CEO pocket the savings.
phxrsg 9y ago
Scaling retail is hard to get perfect to the same precision of auto-scaling AWS, maybe, but scaling to an acceptable (measured in profit and customer satisfaction) level really isn't. Or rather, the solution is known. Especially in December - during prime holiday shopping hours - you staff up. It's more profitable to have a little bit of employee slack time than to have customer satisfaction way down and customers walking out without buying things. This is a bad take - the whole "oh retail will die without self-checkout terminals" overlooks the realities of retail, what consumers want when they choose to go into an actual brick and mortar store, and how businesses can succeed. And it does so in a way that perpetuates the implication that we have to treat employees like computers to be successful.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  >It's more profitable to have a little bit of employee slack time than to have customer satisfaction way down and customers walking out without buying things. For big box stores, but B&N are on the decline, while real estate and lease prices have likely risen. "you staff up" works when you can actually pay for the excess, but B&N clearly don't want to. But you missed the point of my take in that they aren't willing to invest in assets for customer satisfaction. They're on the way out, so why would they care to staff up for holidays either?

frogpelt 9y ago

Imagine if stores had a way for you to pay for your physical stuff on your phone without waiting in a physical line. 1. Use their app to scan the bar code 2. Pay with a card 3. A self-service printer prints a receipt/confirmation of purchase. 4. Show it to an employee on your way out the door. Might be an inventory nightmare, but it could be done.

mitjak 9y ago
Or just set up self-serve stations. Literally every item has a barcode.
wccrawford 9y ago
By "inventory nightmare" you mean "theft", right? Because that's the real problem. There are already self-serve lines in many stores, but they still have to watch people to try to prevent theft. And it turns out people are really, really slow if they aren't trained as a cashier. Sure, the cellphone eliminates the slowdown, but it also eliminates the primary way they currently prevent theft. Amazon is working on a store that works a lot like you said, with your cellphone, but doesn't rely on the customer doing anything other than logging in. After that, tons of cameras take care of the rest.
- Spoom 9y ago
  Imagine that each piece of inventory had a per-item unique RFID permanently attached to it. Not just a model unique RFID, unique to that particular instance. Imagine that your phone can read that RFID. Your phone also has an app that can connect to a database, identify the particular product that the RFID represents, and complete a transaction online. Once the transaction is complete, the store's security systems are updated so that that RFID can pass through the entrance scanners without the alarm going off. Potential pitfalls include the cost of the RFIDs, the ability to detach the RFIDs at any point, the ability to read the RFID on your phone, and alternative entrance / exits of merchandise (e.g. toss through a window). Are there other reasons that this could not work?
heedlessly2 9y ago
more self-service kiosks would be an easier solution rather than building an entire new system. If you used your phone, then it would easy to shoplift. Buy 7 items, but "forget" to scan the last two. Self-service kiosks at least prevents this with weight sensors, cameras, and a human kiosk manager.

csomar 9y ago

Even worse. I wasn't able to buy online from them. My credit card charge was declined (two different cards). I contacted the Card bank and they said that it is B&N that cancelled the sale. I contacted B&N support and they gave me a response that it is due to their fraud detection service. There was no solution to buy. They didn't offer PayPal or another gateway. So I had to walk away.