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We definitely would do something like that with address-book whitelisting or other controls! I expect everybody will. Remote content, even via a proxy, can st

We definitely would do something like that with address-book whitelisting or other controls! I expect everybody will. Remote content, even via a proxy, can still identify exactly who has opened the email (also when, unless content is cached - but the whole point with content that might change is that you can't cache the resources and still be dynamic) It's also going to mess pretty badly with offline mode when we get to that, unless we pre-fetch resources when downloading data for offline.

xenadu02 9y ago
Can you freeze or un-AMP emails? Have your servers pre-download stuff or even strip it (somewhat akin to a browser's reader mode)?
- chrismorgan 9y ago
  text/x-amp-html is intended as an optional enhancement over an email that other clients will still be able to cope with. So un-AMP-ing is mostly just called using the text/html part instead of the text/x-amp-html part. Pre-downloading or proxying content is theoretically quite possible with AMP (its limitations make that possible where it would not be readily possible with freeform JavaScript), but some modes of doing so will probably play hob with its interaction models. But it’s too early to reasonably review that aspect of it—better to wait until we can see what people actually do with AMP. Make no mistake: AMP is all about making emails applications instead of static messages. That is its raison d’être.
  - ancarda 9y ago
    Wasn’t text/html intended as an optional enhancement too? But most of the emails I receive are only text/html - no text/plain alternative, which would be displayed if available. I fully expect text/x-amp-html only emails in the future, and so should you. FastMail, please give me a way to permanently block AMP only emails. Just throw them away with a Mailer Demon reply. If there’s other versions, strip away the AMP version.
    - 4ad 9y ago
      > But most of the emails I receive are only text/html - no text/plain alternative Care to elaborate on that? Virtually every email I get has a plain text version (I can't even see HTML email). I don't think the email I get is particularly selective. The only pure HTML email that I ever get is spam.
      - ancarda 9y ago
        Sorry for the delay in replying, I don’t check my comments very frequently. Usually only in the morning. I use mutt for emails, so believe me — I know when I get a text/html only email as mutt can’t display the text/plain version. Most emails I get from friends and so on are in text/plain as mail clients do a decent enough job at including that. However most of my mail isn’t from people I know, it’s from newsletters and notifications. A lot of it is text/html only, either because the programmer who created and sent that email didn’t want (or know) to include a text/plain version, or didn’t care to.
    - e12e 9y ago
      "most" (of the mail you want to read/reply to) sounds a bit extreme - afaik both Google and outlook/exchange/office365 will supply a semblance of a text part unless you go out of your way to avoid it. As we as most real mail clients. You could always just bounce mail w/o a sensible text part...
      - ancarda 9y ago
        >bounce mail w/o a sensible text part Hmm... I’d like to, but I’m not sure how I’d do that on FastMail. Eventually I may host my own emails, but until that day, I can’t really do much about this problem. Maybe I could have an IMAP client on a server that is constantly connected to FastMail and looks at incoming emails to file them into an “HTML only” mailbox if they don’t contain a text/plain version? I can read those emails from the FastMail Web Interface
        e12e 9y ago
Alex3917 9y ago
Why does it matter if email content changes, if that's the intention the author? Clearly one of the biggest benefits of email is that it's the only medium that's acceptable for memorializing agreements / decisions / roadmaps / plans / etc. At the same time, I don't really care if some clothing company's monthly marketing email changes if they run out of something, as long as it's clearly marked as ephemeral.
- brongondwana 9y ago
  "as long as it's clearly marked as ephemeral" - yep, you hit the nail on the head there. The ecosystem danger is that ephemeral becomes the default. Who doesn't love the ability to silently fix mistakes. And when it becomes the cultural norm to send editable email, then people will do it because it's a nice experience as a sender if you have the choice. I sure enjoy being able to edit my posts on HN when I get something wrong. I'd love to be able to take back and "fix" emails that I've sent too! But having to stand by exactly what you sent when it comes to email is really a valuable part of how email works. If you made a mistake, you send a correction, but the recipient still has your original mistake too. They don't see it, then have it disappear when they go back to look at it again.
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  I, for one, cannot wait until someone is able to alter a few words to a contract I've signed after I've signed it.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    FWIW, this is effectively what tech companies already do with the Terms of Service. They state that you must agree to them to use their product, and then state that they can amend them at any time, often without notifying you.
  - essayist 9y ago
    Had that happen to me. I'd "electronically signed" a PDF of a contract, and returned it to the other party with some minor questions. The other party marked up the PDF I had signed with some changes, based on my questions. All of the changes were agreeable to me (or not worth fighting about, I can't recall). But I still insisted we start with the changes made to an unsigned PDF, and then I signed that PDF with the changes. My thought was that socially/culturally green-lighting "after signature" contract changes was a path to madness and misunderstanding.

xenadu02 9y ago

Can you freeze or un-AMP emails? Have your servers pre-download stuff or even strip it (somewhat akin to a browser's reader mode)?

chrismorgan 9y ago
text/x-amp-html is intended as an optional enhancement over an email that other clients will still be able to cope with. So un-AMP-ing is mostly just called using the text/html part instead of the text/x-amp-html part. Pre-downloading or proxying content is theoretically quite possible with AMP (its limitations make that possible where it would not be readily possible with freeform JavaScript), but some modes of doing so will probably play hob with its interaction models. But it’s too early to reasonably review that aspect of it—better to wait until we can see what people actually do with AMP. Make no mistake: AMP is all about making emails applications instead of static messages. That is its raison d’être.
- ancarda 9y ago
  Wasn’t text/html intended as an optional enhancement too? But most of the emails I receive are only text/html - no text/plain alternative, which would be displayed if available. I fully expect text/x-amp-html only emails in the future, and so should you. FastMail, please give me a way to permanently block AMP only emails. Just throw them away with a Mailer Demon reply. If there’s other versions, strip away the AMP version.
  - 4ad 9y ago
    > But most of the emails I receive are only text/html - no text/plain alternative Care to elaborate on that? Virtually every email I get has a plain text version (I can't even see HTML email). I don't think the email I get is particularly selective. The only pure HTML email that I ever get is spam.
    - ancarda 9y ago
      Sorry for the delay in replying, I don’t check my comments very frequently. Usually only in the morning. I use mutt for emails, so believe me — I know when I get a text/html only email as mutt can’t display the text/plain version. Most emails I get from friends and so on are in text/plain as mail clients do a decent enough job at including that. However most of my mail isn’t from people I know, it’s from newsletters and notifications. A lot of it is text/html only, either because the programmer who created and sent that email didn’t want (or know) to include a text/plain version, or didn’t care to.
  - e12e 9y ago
    "most" (of the mail you want to read/reply to) sounds a bit extreme - afaik both Google and outlook/exchange/office365 will supply a semblance of a text part unless you go out of your way to avoid it. As we as most real mail clients. You could always just bounce mail w/o a sensible text part...
    - ancarda 9y ago
      >bounce mail w/o a sensible text part Hmm... I’d like to, but I’m not sure how I’d do that on FastMail. Eventually I may host my own emails, but until that day, I can’t really do much about this problem. Maybe I could have an IMAP client on a server that is constantly connected to FastMail and looks at incoming emails to file them into an “HTML only” mailbox if they don’t contain a text/plain version? I can read those emails from the FastMail Web Interface
      - e12e 9y ago

Alex3917 9y ago

Why does it matter if email content changes, if that's the intention the author? Clearly one of the biggest benefits of email is that it's the only medium that's acceptable for memorializing agreements / decisions / roadmaps / plans / etc. At the same time, I don't really care if some clothing company's monthly marketing email changes if they run out of something, as long as it's clearly marked as ephemeral.

brongondwana 9y ago
"as long as it's clearly marked as ephemeral" - yep, you hit the nail on the head there. The ecosystem danger is that ephemeral becomes the default. Who doesn't love the ability to silently fix mistakes. And when it becomes the cultural norm to send editable email, then people will do it because it's a nice experience as a sender if you have the choice. I sure enjoy being able to edit my posts on HN when I get something wrong. I'd love to be able to take back and "fix" emails that I've sent too! But having to stand by exactly what you sent when it comes to email is really a valuable part of how email works. If you made a mistake, you send a correction, but the recipient still has your original mistake too. They don't see it, then have it disappear when they go back to look at it again.
JustSomeNobody 9y ago
I, for one, cannot wait until someone is able to alter a few words to a contract I've signed after I've signed it.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  FWIW, this is effectively what tech companies already do with the Terms of Service. They state that you must agree to them to use their product, and then state that they can amend them at any time, often without notifying you.
- essayist 9y ago
  Had that happen to me. I'd "electronically signed" a PDF of a contract, and returned it to the other party with some minor questions. The other party marked up the PDF I had signed with some changes, based on my questions. All of the changes were agreeable to me (or not worth fighting about, I can't recall). But I still insisted we start with the changes made to an unsigned PDF, and then I signed that PDF with the changes. My thought was that socially/culturally green-lighting "after signature" contract changes was a path to madness and misunderstanding.