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> This is a $350 device which runs only one app. Why? Because the consumer doesn't care about the things you care about - they truly don't care at all. Zero. N

> This is a $350 device which runs only one app. Why? Because the consumer doesn't care about the things you care about - they truly don't care at all. Zero. Nil. The consumer wants to play music, they want it to sound good, they want zero setup or calibration involved, they want good software integration with the ecosystem they're already familiar with and they want the device to look good alongside their home decor. Oh and they want reliable, no-lag, multi-room audio so that their setup can expand throughout their home. Now go in the market and tell me which device accomplishes these things. The answer is very very very few. There's Sonos, and really that's about it. There are a bunch of major drawbacks with Sonos: the Sonos app is complete garbage, there's calibration required, it doesn't sound as good, it doesn't look as good and the software integration with any ecosystem let alone Apple's is subpar. With HomePod, those in the Apple ecosystem finally have a best-in-class sounding speaker which is deeply integrated into the software they already know and use throughout their life (Mac, iPad, iPhone, Watch, etc), looks beautiful, is small, and just works with no setup (AirPlay, Real time whole room calibration). To achieve that in one elegant package is no small feat. The reason many people are getting mad is because it's not a device that's for them - which is completely OK. This is a product that is targeted at Apple's consumer base which if you're counting is at nearly a billion users or more. They do not need to appeal to those with an Android phone or those who use Spotify to sell this thing at scale and be successful by any reasonable metric. They simply don't have to, and people can get angry about it all they want.

refulgentis 9y ago
I'd be careful drawing definitive conclusions about the success of a product that shipped last week, then using them to drive larger generalizations about what "many people" think, and after setting up the strawmen, knock them down with arguments about market share in unrelated products. It's okay to criticize flaws in a product, even if this modern-day golden examplar of a vertically integrated company can leverage its integration to move a ton of product.
- askafriend 9y ago
  I've drawn no conclusions about the success of HomePod. I'm explaining why consumers have indicated that they want it, and why people are excited by it despite it being a "dumb computer" as so many others seem to think. The thing is, whether you like HomePod or not depends on if you want a smart assistant or if you want a really good speaker for your home. If you want the latter, there are few good solutions as elegant as HomePod and if you're in the Apple ecosystem - it's a no brainer at the $350 price point - it really is. It will sell and I think anyone in the market for a high quality audio solution for their home recently will agree (if this is you, then chime in with your experience!). If you want a smart assistant and don't care about the speaker quality as much, then there are tons of alternatives in the market for you at far cheaper price points. HomePod doesn't make sense if all you care about is a smart assistant. Now if you think the metric of success always has to be "Oh but it doesn't match iPhone sales numbers" then Apple will never succeed in your eyes. iPhone is perhaps one of the greatest businesses to have ever been conceived in history by all metrics. Grading a business against that kind of success for literally every subsequent product is not realistic (not saying you are, but many people do tend to do this and it baffles me).
  - refulgentis 9y ago
    I stopped at "Customers have indicated they want it": that's vague enough to be unassailable, yet crucial backbone for 2 essays about how "many people" are fundamentally misunderstanding consumer electronics demand, thus they're not qualified to critique HomePod as a product. I don't think there's much chance of having a productive conversation
    - askafriend 9y ago
      Look, obviously we don't have sales data - I'm not oblivious to that fact, and I know it's early - the product just launched last week. The only thing we can have a conversation around is the general sentiment among the audio community and the general excitement about the product by people in the press, and various market analysts' proxies. The perspective I'm trying to give you is just one of the product landscape in the market. If you're in the market for this type of device, there aren't many out there and the ones that are out there have significant flaws at any price point. Look at how successful Sonos is - there is clearly a market for this kind of device - at the very least you must see that. Then look at how large Apple's consumer base is and look at the recently reported numbers for the growth of Apple Music - their paid subscriber rate is about to eclipse Spotify's. Right now, we can only have a conversation around proxies for reasons you pointed out, but all proxies indicate a high probability of at least moderate success.
jacksmith21006 9y ago
Could not disagree more. We use our Google homes all the time for a variety of things beyond music. One of my favorite is controlling the TV with YouTube TV.
- Sharlin 9y ago
  You're most likely not the average consumer either.
- askafriend 9y ago
  Anecdotally, almost everyone I know that got an Alexa has resorted to only using it for weather and settings timers. At first they tried all the cool tricks like asking it trivia questions and cool integrations - but gradually they stopped using those as the novelty wore off. The other big use-case is home automation like turning off lights with voice, but I see this far less since it's expensive to outfit homes with these kinds of IOT devices. I personally think voice will continue to mature, but we're just not there yet where it's something that's critical. We'll get there, but that's just not reality today for most people which is why I reject the notion that any company is "late" to the game. When we do get there though, I think there's room in the market at all price points, which is the beauty of cheap microphones. Amazon might even decide to give away cheap Alexa devices (they already practically are with FireStick, etc). Of course take my comment with a grain of salt. We still don't have reliable publicly reported metrics in this space.
- photojosh 9y ago
  > One of my favorite is controlling the TV with YouTube TV. What actions are you taking with the voice control? I have an AppleTV setup, and we 99% use the remote, then the voice recognition for text entry for searches.
photojosh 9y ago
> The consumer wants to play music, they want it to sound good, they want zero setup or calibration involved, they want good software integration with the ecosystem they're already familiar with and they want the device to look good alongside their home decor. Oh and they want reliable, no-lag, multi-room audio so that their setup can expand throughout their home. This is exactly why I bought one, and it's fulfilling that job admirably. (It's replacing an AirPort Express for AirPlay + small amp + bookshelf speakers + sub.) I didn't care at all for the "smart" aspect and in that sense had zero expectations, but I've used Siri more in the last week than I have since it was released (and the kids love it).
auxbuss 9y ago
I have Libratone speakers [0]. They do all of that. (Alexa is integrated; off by default should you not want it.) And they sound fabulous. Streaming is available via Airplay and Bluetooth. The Libratone also contains a 10-hour battery, so you can take it wherever you want – stream from your phone in the park, if you like. Oh, and it doesn't leave white marks on wood surfaces [1]. (I'm not affiliated; just a content user.) [0] https://www.libratone.com/ https://www.libratone.com/ [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43064772 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43064772

refulgentis 9y ago

I'd be careful drawing definitive conclusions about the success of a product that shipped last week, then using them to drive larger generalizations about what "many people" think, and after setting up the strawmen, knock them down with arguments about market share in unrelated products. It's okay to criticize flaws in a product, even if this modern-day golden examplar of a vertically integrated company can leverage its integration to move a ton of product.

askafriend 9y ago
I've drawn no conclusions about the success of HomePod. I'm explaining why consumers have indicated that they want it, and why people are excited by it despite it being a "dumb computer" as so many others seem to think. The thing is, whether you like HomePod or not depends on if you want a smart assistant or if you want a really good speaker for your home. If you want the latter, there are few good solutions as elegant as HomePod and if you're in the Apple ecosystem - it's a no brainer at the $350 price point - it really is. It will sell and I think anyone in the market for a high quality audio solution for their home recently will agree (if this is you, then chime in with your experience!). If you want a smart assistant and don't care about the speaker quality as much, then there are tons of alternatives in the market for you at far cheaper price points. HomePod doesn't make sense if all you care about is a smart assistant. Now if you think the metric of success always has to be "Oh but it doesn't match iPhone sales numbers" then Apple will never succeed in your eyes. iPhone is perhaps one of the greatest businesses to have ever been conceived in history by all metrics. Grading a business against that kind of success for literally every subsequent product is not realistic (not saying you are, but many people do tend to do this and it baffles me).
- refulgentis 9y ago
  I stopped at "Customers have indicated they want it": that's vague enough to be unassailable, yet crucial backbone for 2 essays about how "many people" are fundamentally misunderstanding consumer electronics demand, thus they're not qualified to critique HomePod as a product. I don't think there's much chance of having a productive conversation
  - askafriend 9y ago
    Look, obviously we don't have sales data - I'm not oblivious to that fact, and I know it's early - the product just launched last week. The only thing we can have a conversation around is the general sentiment among the audio community and the general excitement about the product by people in the press, and various market analysts' proxies. The perspective I'm trying to give you is just one of the product landscape in the market. If you're in the market for this type of device, there aren't many out there and the ones that are out there have significant flaws at any price point. Look at how successful Sonos is - there is clearly a market for this kind of device - at the very least you must see that. Then look at how large Apple's consumer base is and look at the recently reported numbers for the growth of Apple Music - their paid subscriber rate is about to eclipse Spotify's. Right now, we can only have a conversation around proxies for reasons you pointed out, but all proxies indicate a high probability of at least moderate success.

jacksmith21006 9y ago

Could not disagree more. We use our Google homes all the time for a variety of things beyond music. One of my favorite is controlling the TV with YouTube TV.

Sharlin 9y ago
You're most likely not the average consumer either.
askafriend 9y ago
Anecdotally, almost everyone I know that got an Alexa has resorted to only using it for weather and settings timers. At first they tried all the cool tricks like asking it trivia questions and cool integrations - but gradually they stopped using those as the novelty wore off. The other big use-case is home automation like turning off lights with voice, but I see this far less since it's expensive to outfit homes with these kinds of IOT devices. I personally think voice will continue to mature, but we're just not there yet where it's something that's critical. We'll get there, but that's just not reality today for most people which is why I reject the notion that any company is "late" to the game. When we do get there though, I think there's room in the market at all price points, which is the beauty of cheap microphones. Amazon might even decide to give away cheap Alexa devices (they already practically are with FireStick, etc). Of course take my comment with a grain of salt. We still don't have reliable publicly reported metrics in this space.
photojosh 9y ago
> One of my favorite is controlling the TV with YouTube TV. What actions are you taking with the voice control? I have an AppleTV setup, and we 99% use the remote, then the voice recognition for text entry for searches.

photojosh 9y ago

> The consumer wants to play music, they want it to sound good, they want zero setup or calibration involved, they want good software integration with the ecosystem they're already familiar with and they want the device to look good alongside their home decor. Oh and they want reliable, no-lag, multi-room audio so that their setup can expand throughout their home. This is exactly why I bought one, and it's fulfilling that job admirably. (It's replacing an AirPort Express for AirPlay + small amp + bookshelf speakers + sub.) I didn't care at all for the "smart" aspect and in that sense had zero expectations, but I've used Siri more in the last week than I have since it was released (and the kids love it).

auxbuss 9y ago

I have Libratone speakers [0]. They do all of that. (Alexa is integrated; off by default should you not want it.) And they sound fabulous. Streaming is available via Airplay and Bluetooth. The Libratone also contains a 10-hour battery, so you can take it wherever you want – stream from your phone in the park, if you like. Oh, and it doesn't leave white marks on wood surfaces [1]. (I'm not affiliated; just a content user.) [0] https://www.libratone.com/ https://www.libratone.com/ [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43064772 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43064772