19 ms·

Finally, somewhere I can appropriately vent about this. About TWO years ago I was constantly annoyed by the 'secure your account: add your phone number here' b

Finally, somewhere I can appropriately vent about this. About TWO years ago I was constantly annoyed by the 'secure your account: add your phone number here' banner frequently displayed at the top of the page upon loading FB, so I input my number to make it disappear for good. (Also, they kept hiding the 'x' (close) icon in different spots, making the banner difficult to dismiss.) A few days later I got a text message containing a Facebook notification. I was flabbergasted. What an EGREGIOUS misuse of personal information. Completely under the guise of account security... Facebook had in reality acquired another way to keep their brand under my nose. Naturally I was livid so I spent the better portion of the day scrubbing whatever sensitive information I could. Sure enough, the banner came back a few days later. And here we are. I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in.... but I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company's terrible practices, I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time

mintplant 9y ago
I had a similar experience around a year ago, with Facebook texting me a notification out of the blue to the number I had set up for 2FA. In a show of futile-yet-satisfying passive aggression, I texted back "go away" to the robot... which promptly posted it as a status update on my timeline, to the confusion and concern of my friends until I noticed and took it down.
- RikNieu 9y ago
  What a brilliant dark pattern! Make people's assumed private snotty replies to them public and visible to their peers. They out passive aggressived you like a ninja.
  - code_duck 9y ago
    They have the advantage in the power balance of the relationship.
ASalazarMX 9y ago
> I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in I've had a "terminated" account that occasionally gets emails inviting me to "Log back in with one click". When I originally tried to delete the account, it told me it would be actually erased a month after. That was 6 years ago.
- SamLevin88 9y ago
  Yeah. It's no secret that they never fully let you disconnect. If you're serious about it, seems like you need to create a burner email account with an absurdly complex password, update FB to use this account, and you know the rest
- nukeop 9y ago
  To have your account erased as opposed to "deactivated" (which doesn't really do anything) the surefire method is to spam gore images on popular groups.
  - jnbiche 9y ago
    I'm pretty sure even then they don't actually delete your data. They just make it impossibly for you to reactivate your account.
    - netsharc 9y ago
      Interestingly I've read an anecdote that in the EU you can write them and say "Either delete my account or return my access to it.", and because they don't/can't delete accounts...
- jacksonsabey 9y ago
  I have a similar problem with email spam, except at the bottom of every email there is a link to "disavow_contact" - the problem is it does nothing
- cm2187 9y ago
  Surely GDPR will force them to actually delete the account when you terminate it (+/- mandatory data retention requirements).
ReidZB 9y ago
> I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in.... but I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company's terrible practices, I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time Well, that's the real problem, isn't it? If users aren't punishing Facebook by leaving the platform in droves, then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices? Obviously it does not care about complaints alone: so long as engagement metrics are up, the users' opinions can be damned. The good news (for those of us that don't like Facebook) is that it seems like users are leaving it—or at least that's the picture I get from stories/comments submitted here on HN.
- SamLevin88 9y ago
  They definitely are. And for users like me they certainly aren't getting their money's worth... I use FB purity, ublock origin, and have spent the better part of the last year using the 'on this day' feature to scrub historical information from the platform. As a tool Facebook still has valid use cases for me. The benefits of keeping it edge out any negatives. So for now I will stay. Unless any egregious election meddling information comes out, in which I'll seriously reevaluate that decision
  - jnbiche 9y ago
    > to scrub historical information from the platform. You know they never actually delete user data, right? They don't delete your data if you actually delete your account, much less if you just delete a post. They just stop displaying it then.
    - chesimov 9y ago
      This is something I wonder about. I'm certain they never delete anything, because in aggregate all that data is surely very valuable and will be for years to come. However, I hope that by marking it for deletion, it becomes more likely that it gets stored on increasingly distant/cold media, increasing the likelihood that over the years it gets overwritten or corrupted or some drives fail. If times get difficult, maybe they'll mark my data as low priority, and let it get overwritten to save some money. Can anyone shed some light on this - is this just wishful thinking? Is storage too cheap? Another thing I wonder about: perhaps if some companies want your facebook data, they might pay a rate and see all current information on your facebook. By deleting your data, you've denied these lower-tier companies from accessing it. I suspect that with enough money, they could buy access to deleted posts too. But such companies are probably fewer in number.
nukeop 9y ago
If despite these practices and despite you realizing what a horrible breach of trust this is you still don't consider it the last straw and do not get your account banned (which erases all information about it forever, at least from the public view, as opposed to "deactivating" it which leaves all the information and posts there which makes it almost equivalent to simply not logging in), then you are a part of the problem. You are forcing the other users among your friends to remain on this user-hostile platform and you are responsible for its domination. You have to draw the line somewhere. Enough is enough. They are showing you that they consider your privacy worthless. Somebody has to be the first to leave the website.
deviationblue 9y ago
> but I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company's terrible practices, I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time This behavior does not encourage FB to self-correct.
ashelmire 9y ago
Disconnecting is the best thing you can do for yourself. This company has manipulated you so much that you're actually addicted to it. Just look at what you wrote. You're too invested and addicted to leave a website that willfully and repeatedly violates your privacy? You're better than that.
- northwest65 9y ago
  I must say, his statement did remind me of my friends who smoke(d).
mtgx 9y ago
This is also why I vented about Facebook's new face sign-in for "security". It was extremely obvious and expected that Facebook will use that biometric data for much more than just security, and in fact I was sure that security was just a pretext, and not even a top 3 reason for doing it. Facebook is right up there with Uber in terms of shadiness. You can't ever trust them - they've shown us that too many times to count at this point. And there's no "earning the trust back" with Facebook, not that they would ever try to genuinely do that. Oh, and Google does this crap with the phone number, too. This is why I hated it when they pretty much forced you to use a phone number for 2FA a while ago. They also know very well what a terrible 2FA option the SMS code is at this point. But they keep it around so they can get your phone number for advertising reasons, which I guess trumps all.
politician 9y ago
You can file a TCPA complaint [0] against Facebook for spamming your mobile number after you've instructed them to stop ("revoked consent"). There are a number of stories about TCPA around the web [1]. [0] https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=39744 https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?tic... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2017/09/05/tcpa-defendants-could-be-looking-at-longer-more-expensive-legal-battles/#2f29935f441b https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2017/09/05/tcpa-d... (IANAL, this is not legal advice.)
homero 9y ago
Oddly enough I did consent to receiving notifications and they kept turning them off on me.
akvadrako 9y ago
Deleting Facebook is hard but it’s the moral thing to do.
b3lvedere 9y ago
Terminating is impossible. They made it that way and have told this numerous times. Now you know how they get their info and now you can get creative with it. Info doesn't always have to stay the same.
notyourwork 9y ago
I'm confused because I have never found dismissing the secure your account interface hard to close.
swiley 9y ago
I knew they would do something like this so I never put it in.
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
> I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in I disagree with this point. Service providers, of any flavour, whether paid, or free†, should be regulated to only use your contact details for actions you have pre-approved. † free - conditions apply, nothing is free
cwkoss 9y ago
I like writing hate comments deriding advertisers for their horrible products and waste of ad spend on every sponsored post I see. Facebook wants me to be the product they sell to advertisers - so I want to be a negative-value user. Health product -> "THIS GAVE MY FATHER CANCER, NOW HES DEAD" Investment Product -> "WORSE THAN A PONZI" Anything -> "Only an idiot would buy this."
- xster 9y ago
  Not sure you can win at this game. I wouldn't be surprised if facebook pushes engagement notifications to you friends saying 'Person X commented on product Y with all caps comments! Exciting? Shocking? You decide! (After a short 45s pre-roll video ad)'
- thephyber 9y ago
  It's worth mentioning that you can be sued if the company can prove damages. In the UK, the burden on the plaintiff is even lower. Better to make it appear to be your opinion, as opposed to a (false) statement of fact.
ozim 9y ago
Not really, I think better solution is to get prepaid number specifically for 2fa. Get separate email for it and always use FB in incognito mode or in firefox container. I think you can minimize your exposure to FB and don't have to give up on it. Depends on how much you need it. I use it mainly for chat. So I have messanger lite on my phone and that is about it. I do not really post/like/commment on feed. I share photos with specific people that I think are interested not broadcasting on the wall.
vanderZwan 9y ago
What I found especially grating about that banner was the version that said "These friends all shared their number". At least three of those stood out to me as the kind of person to never do that, so I asked, and they hadn't. Facebook was blatantly lying and trying to influence me by showing the people that I interacted with the most on their website at the time.
stochastic_monk 9y ago
This is one of many reasons why GitHub is my only social network. Primarily, I just don’t like being a product.
tomrod 9y ago
Why not play the two big TechCos off each other? Use a Google Voice phone number on an account whose backup is "user@facebook" That way you've decoupled those particular services and annoyances from the rest of your life.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  user@facebook.com email addresses were killed, even in their reduced, forwarding-only form, on May 1, 2016. So that's not going to work.
  - tomrod 9y ago
    Well... drat.
LeviEster 9y ago
>I was constantly annoyed by the 'secure your account: add your phone number here' banner frequently displayed at the top of the page Use uBlockOrigin, it's good at fixing these type of shit.
- xster 9y ago
  The most underrated comment of the whole page.
saguro 9y ago
That thing facebook does with demanding your phone number, that's my favorite dark pattern. Apple does the same thing with iOS upgrades. First you pose a seemingly innocent question, like 'would you like to give us your phone number so we can keep your account secure?' or 'would you like to upgrade to new iOS?'. Then you take away the NO option. You replace it with 'i'll decide later'. And by doing so, you make it not a choice for the user. You make it a statistical guarantee that sooner or later, most users will cave in and hit yes, even if by accident. iOS is an extreme example of this - when you say you don't want to upgrade, you are immediately prompted with a pin code request as if your device just locked itself, and your reflex is to punch in the pin to unlock it again. But if you read what it says at the bottom, it's asking for your pin to get permission to schedule the upgrade that you just said no to. Whoever the designers are who came up with this stuff, fuck them. This shit is going to be in ethics textbooks in a decade or two. I hope someone from the facebook UX team is reading this, I hope they know their day job is to make the world a worse place.
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  They do a similar thing with Apple Pay too. In order to get rid of the Badge on settings, you have to run through the wizard and cancel out at the end.
- thisacctforreal 9y ago
  See also: https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern
- sizzle 9y ago
  As an ethical UX designer, unethical UX designers/PMs/ need to be shamed for creating/allowing dark pattern in their work. This goes against the fundamental tenets of empathetic UX design and in downright manipulative and bordering evil.
  - GuiA 9y ago
    Out of curiosity, who or what has designated you an “ethical UX designer”? I’m sure you could find an Apple designer who would claim that forcing people to upgrade ensures that their device is patched and secure, preventing many potentially livelihood threatening problems down the line, so they are just as ethical of an UX designer as you are, if not more so since you do not want to protect people from their device being hacked into and their personal info stolen.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
The problem is shitty defaults. I recently added a new phone number to Facebook, and I had to specifically disable getting SMS notifications from FB, it's on by default. I don't even know why they still offer them. I understand the utility of SMS notifications for FB 10 years ago, when smart phones weren't the norm but most people have the Facebook app installed on their phone, I don't need 2 notifications.
forgotmypw 9y ago
>I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company's terrible practices, I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time Having a Facebook account is like being in an abusive relationship. You've been together for a long time, and you keep hoping they'll change, but they never do, and it just gets worse and worse. The sooner you realize this this and get out, the less additional time and energy you'll waste.
- forgotmypw 9y ago
  To add to this... I also made my account sometime in 2006, right after you didn't need an .edu anymore. It was a great platform, because it combined my friends, photos, and events. So I could find out about an event, go and meet people, and then find them later in the photos and friend them. It snowballed very quickly, and it helped that I was really into photography at the time. It really was the perfect social platform for me at the time. It contributed greatly to my life. For me, the main motivation to stop using it and eventually leave was all the frontend changes that made the website clunky and tedious to use. It used to be a joy, and now it's just... Well, IYCSSN... Even m.facebook.com, and many of the features are broken on it. I deleted my account a year or two ago, after a couple of failed attempts, since there was a 14-day cool-off period before they would actually "delete" your account. I recently made a new one just for keeping up with a couple of event spaces, but that's basically all I do on it. That, and I friend all the spammer accounts that send me requests, because, why not? The more the merrier. I'm pretty sure that's where most of the growth is coming from at this point.
L_226 9y ago
Anecdata: I deleted my FB account a few months ago, every few weeks I get an SMS asking if I need help signing in. Also get the same message emailed to original account email address and (!) my work email address - which I've never entered into Facebook.
- newscracker 9y ago
  The work address part is just terrible and totally unethical. Facebook might have gotten your work address from other people who have shared their device/services address books with it, but I thought this is used only for more profiling and targeting, not blatant misuse!
bradgessler 9y ago
Jiffy Lube spammed their customers via SMS and got sued for $47m. Source: https://www.tatango.com/blog/how-the-tcpa-impacts-text-messaging-marketing/ https://www.tatango.com/blog/how-the-tcpa-impacts-text-messa... I don’t know the details about FBs (mis-)use of SMS for this particular situation and IANAL, but perhaps they accidentally opened themselves up to this massive liablitly.
Spooky23 9y ago
The mobile number is the holy grail. You can buy all sorts of evil information from the carriers, and your number is sort of a public key representing you in other contexts.
CaptainZapp 9y ago
About TWO years ago I was constantly annoyed by the 'secure your account: add your phone number here' banner That and an obnoxious, flashing add "It seems you live in Wherever, please klick here if you live in Wherever!" were the actual reason I "deleted" my account about 3 years ago. With all that shit they pulled during only that period it just proves that it was the right decision to make. I never looked back.
letsgetphysITal 9y ago
> I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time This is all they heard.
a_imho 9y ago
It might sound harsh, but from your comment you know exactly what you were doing and the probable consequences. At this point I'm not quite sure simply terminating is the best way forward, sanitizing a profile with disinformation ( or straight filling with garbage up to the brim) might work better?
thatshowitis 9y ago
Very good example of the importance of using open protocols only. By using proprietary protocols like facebook, you completely lack control, they can change whatever they want and you have to take it or quit for good, which can become difficult when you have so many contacts only over that proprietary protocol. If your e-mail provider pulled shit like that, you could simply change to a different provider, or even use your own mail server. Of course there is some peer pressure to join those proprietary networks. But friends will also keep contact without those networks. I never had a facebook account, never joined whatsapp, never used twitter, and am still alive!

mintplant 9y ago

I had a similar experience around a year ago, with Facebook texting me a notification out of the blue to the number I had set up for 2FA. In a show of futile-yet-satisfying passive aggression, I texted back "go away" to the robot... which promptly posted it as a status update on my timeline, to the confusion and concern of my friends until I noticed and took it down.

RikNieu 9y ago
What a brilliant dark pattern! Make people's assumed private snotty replies to them public and visible to their peers. They out passive aggressived you like a ninja.
- code_duck 9y ago
  They have the advantage in the power balance of the relationship.

ASalazarMX 9y ago

> I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in I've had a "terminated" account that occasionally gets emails inviting me to "Log back in with one click". When I originally tried to delete the account, it told me it would be actually erased a month after. That was 6 years ago.

SamLevin88 9y ago
Yeah. It's no secret that they never fully let you disconnect. If you're serious about it, seems like you need to create a burner email account with an absurdly complex password, update FB to use this account, and you know the rest
nukeop 9y ago
To have your account erased as opposed to "deactivated" (which doesn't really do anything) the surefire method is to spam gore images on popular groups.
- jnbiche 9y ago
  I'm pretty sure even then they don't actually delete your data. They just make it impossibly for you to reactivate your account.
  - netsharc 9y ago
    Interestingly I've read an anecdote that in the EU you can write them and say "Either delete my account or return my access to it.", and because they don't/can't delete accounts...
jacksonsabey 9y ago
I have a similar problem with email spam, except at the bottom of every email there is a link to "disavow_contact" - the problem is it does nothing
cm2187 9y ago
Surely GDPR will force them to actually delete the account when you terminate it (+/- mandatory data retention requirements).

ReidZB 9y ago

> I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in.... but I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company's terrible practices, I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time Well, that's the real problem, isn't it? If users aren't punishing Facebook by leaving the platform in droves, then what incentive does Facebook have to stop its consistently user-hostile business practices? Obviously it does not care about complaints alone: so long as engagement metrics are up, the users' opinions can be damned. The good news (for those of us that don't like Facebook) is that it seems like users are leaving it—or at least that's the picture I get from stories/comments submitted here on HN.

SamLevin88 9y ago
They definitely are. And for users like me they certainly aren't getting their money's worth... I use FB purity, ublock origin, and have spent the better part of the last year using the 'on this day' feature to scrub historical information from the platform. As a tool Facebook still has valid use cases for me. The benefits of keeping it edge out any negatives. So for now I will stay. Unless any egregious election meddling information comes out, in which I'll seriously reevaluate that decision
- jnbiche 9y ago
  > to scrub historical information from the platform. You know they never actually delete user data, right? They don't delete your data if you actually delete your account, much less if you just delete a post. They just stop displaying it then.
  - chesimov 9y ago
    This is something I wonder about. I'm certain they never delete anything, because in aggregate all that data is surely very valuable and will be for years to come. However, I hope that by marking it for deletion, it becomes more likely that it gets stored on increasingly distant/cold media, increasing the likelihood that over the years it gets overwritten or corrupted or some drives fail. If times get difficult, maybe they'll mark my data as low priority, and let it get overwritten to save some money. Can anyone shed some light on this - is this just wishful thinking? Is storage too cheap? Another thing I wonder about: perhaps if some companies want your facebook data, they might pay a rate and see all current information on your facebook. By deleting your data, you've denied these lower-tier companies from accessing it. I suspect that with enough money, they could buy access to deleted posts too. But such companies are probably fewer in number.

nukeop 9y ago

If despite these practices and despite you realizing what a horrible breach of trust this is you still don't consider it the last straw and do not get your account banned (which erases all information about it forever, at least from the public view, as opposed to "deactivating" it which leaves all the information and posts there which makes it almost equivalent to simply not logging in), then you are a part of the problem. You are forcing the other users among your friends to remain on this user-hostile platform and you are responsible for its domination. You have to draw the line somewhere. Enough is enough. They are showing you that they consider your privacy worthless. Somebody has to be the first to leave the website.

deviationblue 9y ago

> but I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company's terrible practices, I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time This behavior does not encourage FB to self-correct.

ashelmire 9y ago

Disconnecting is the best thing you can do for yourself. This company has manipulated you so much that you're actually addicted to it. Just look at what you wrote. You're too invested and addicted to leave a website that willfully and repeatedly violates your privacy? You're better than that.

northwest65 9y ago
I must say, his statement did remind me of my friends who smoke(d).

mtgx 9y ago

This is also why I vented about Facebook's new face sign-in for "security". It was extremely obvious and expected that Facebook will use that biometric data for much more than just security, and in fact I was sure that security was just a pretext, and not even a top 3 reason for doing it. Facebook is right up there with Uber in terms of shadiness. You can't ever trust them - they've shown us that too many times to count at this point. And there's no "earning the trust back" with Facebook, not that they would ever try to genuinely do that. Oh, and Google does this crap with the phone number, too. This is why I hated it when they pretty much forced you to use a phone number for 2FA a while ago. They also know very well what a terrible 2FA option the SMS code is at this point. But they keep it around so they can get your phone number for advertising reasons, which I guess trumps all.

politician 9y ago

You can file a TCPA complaint [0] against Facebook for spamming your mobile number after you've instructed them to stop ("revoked consent"). There are a number of stories about TCPA around the web [1]. [0] https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=39744 https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?tic... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2017/09/05/tcpa-defendants-could-be-looking-at-longer-more-expensive-legal-battles/#2f29935f441b https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2017/09/05/tcpa-d... (IANAL, this is not legal advice.)

homero 9y ago

Oddly enough I did consent to receiving notifications and they kept turning them off on me.

akvadrako 9y ago

Deleting Facebook is hard but it’s the moral thing to do.

b3lvedere 9y ago

Terminating is impossible. They made it that way and have told this numerous times. Now you know how they get their info and now you can get creative with it. Info doesn't always have to stay the same.

notyourwork 9y ago

I'm confused because I have never found dismissing the secure your account interface hard to close.

swiley 9y ago

I knew they would do something like this so I never put it in.

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago

> I realize that the proper solution is to terminate my account and never attempt to log back in I disagree with this point. Service providers, of any flavour, whether paid, or free†, should be regulated to only use your contact details for actions you have pre-approved. † free - conditions apply, nothing is free

cwkoss 9y ago

I like writing hate comments deriding advertisers for their horrible products and waste of ad spend on every sponsored post I see. Facebook wants me to be the product they sell to advertisers - so I want to be a negative-value user. Health product -> "THIS GAVE MY FATHER CANCER, NOW HES DEAD" Investment Product -> "WORSE THAN A PONZI" Anything -> "Only an idiot would buy this."

xster 9y ago
Not sure you can win at this game. I wouldn't be surprised if facebook pushes engagement notifications to you friends saying 'Person X commented on product Y with all caps comments! Exciting? Shocking? You decide! (After a short 45s pre-roll video ad)'
thephyber 9y ago
It's worth mentioning that you can be sued if the company can prove damages. In the UK, the burden on the plaintiff is even lower. Better to make it appear to be your opinion, as opposed to a (false) statement of fact.

ozim 9y ago

Not really, I think better solution is to get prepaid number specifically for 2fa. Get separate email for it and always use FB in incognito mode or in firefox container. I think you can minimize your exposure to FB and don't have to give up on it. Depends on how much you need it. I use it mainly for chat. So I have messanger lite on my phone and that is about it. I do not really post/like/commment on feed. I share photos with specific people that I think are interested not broadcasting on the wall.

vanderZwan 9y ago

What I found especially grating about that banner was the version that said "These friends all shared their number". At least three of those stood out to me as the kind of person to never do that, so I asked, and they hadn't. Facebook was blatantly lying and trying to influence me by showing the people that I interacted with the most on their website at the time.

stochastic_monk 9y ago

This is one of many reasons why GitHub is my only social network. Primarily, I just don’t like being a product.

tomrod 9y ago

Why not play the two big TechCos off each other? Use a Google Voice phone number on an account whose backup is "user@facebook" That way you've decoupled those particular services and annoyances from the rest of your life.

dragonwriter 9y ago
user@facebook.com email addresses were killed, even in their reduced, forwarding-only form, on May 1, 2016. So that's not going to work.
- tomrod 9y ago
  Well... drat.

LeviEster 9y ago

>I was constantly annoyed by the 'secure your account: add your phone number here' banner frequently displayed at the top of the page Use uBlockOrigin, it's good at fixing these type of shit.

xster 9y ago
The most underrated comment of the whole page.

saguro 9y ago

That thing facebook does with demanding your phone number, that's my favorite dark pattern. Apple does the same thing with iOS upgrades. First you pose a seemingly innocent question, like 'would you like to give us your phone number so we can keep your account secure?' or 'would you like to upgrade to new iOS?'. Then you take away the NO option. You replace it with 'i'll decide later'. And by doing so, you make it not a choice for the user. You make it a statistical guarantee that sooner or later, most users will cave in and hit yes, even if by accident. iOS is an extreme example of this - when you say you don't want to upgrade, you are immediately prompted with a pin code request as if your device just locked itself, and your reflex is to punch in the pin to unlock it again. But if you read what it says at the bottom, it's asking for your pin to get permission to schedule the upgrade that you just said no to. Whoever the designers are who came up with this stuff, fuck them. This shit is going to be in ethics textbooks in a decade or two. I hope someone from the facebook UX team is reading this, I hope they know their day job is to make the world a worse place.

JustSomeNobody 9y ago
They do a similar thing with Apple Pay too. In order to get rid of the Badge on settings, you have to run through the wizard and cancel out at the end.
thisacctforreal 9y ago
See also: https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern
sizzle 9y ago
As an ethical UX designer, unethical UX designers/PMs/ need to be shamed for creating/allowing dark pattern in their work. This goes against the fundamental tenets of empathetic UX design and in downright manipulative and bordering evil.
- GuiA 9y ago
  Out of curiosity, who or what has designated you an “ethical UX designer”? I’m sure you could find an Apple designer who would claim that forcing people to upgrade ensures that their device is patched and secure, preventing many potentially livelihood threatening problems down the line, so they are just as ethical of an UX designer as you are, if not more so since you do not want to protect people from their device being hacked into and their personal info stolen.

toomanybeersies 9y ago

The problem is shitty defaults. I recently added a new phone number to Facebook, and I had to specifically disable getting SMS notifications from FB, it's on by default. I don't even know why they still offer them. I understand the utility of SMS notifications for FB 10 years ago, when smart phones weren't the norm but most people have the Facebook app installed on their phone, I don't need 2 notifications.

forgotmypw 9y ago

>I've had my account since 2006 and despite the company's terrible practices, I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time Having a Facebook account is like being in an abusive relationship. You've been together for a long time, and you keep hoping they'll change, but they never do, and it just gets worse and worse. The sooner you realize this this and get out, the less additional time and energy you'll waste.

forgotmypw 9y ago
To add to this... I also made my account sometime in 2006, right after you didn't need an .edu anymore. It was a great platform, because it combined my friends, photos, and events. So I could find out about an event, go and meet people, and then find them later in the photos and friend them. It snowballed very quickly, and it helped that I was really into photography at the time. It really was the perfect social platform for me at the time. It contributed greatly to my life. For me, the main motivation to stop using it and eventually leave was all the frontend changes that made the website clunky and tedious to use. It used to be a joy, and now it's just... Well, IYCSSN... Even m.facebook.com, and many of the features are broken on it. I deleted my account a year or two ago, after a couple of failed attempts, since there was a 14-day cool-off period before they would actually "delete" your account. I recently made a new one just for keeping up with a couple of event spaces, but that's basically all I do on it. That, and I friend all the spammer accounts that send me requests, because, why not? The more the merrier. I'm pretty sure that's where most of the growth is coming from at this point.

L_226 9y ago

Anecdata: I deleted my FB account a few months ago, every few weeks I get an SMS asking if I need help signing in. Also get the same message emailed to original account email address and (!) my work email address - which I've never entered into Facebook.

newscracker 9y ago
The work address part is just terrible and totally unethical. Facebook might have gotten your work address from other people who have shared their device/services address books with it, but I thought this is used only for more profiling and targeting, not blatant misuse!

bradgessler 9y ago

Jiffy Lube spammed their customers via SMS and got sued for $47m. Source: https://www.tatango.com/blog/how-the-tcpa-impacts-text-messaging-marketing/ https://www.tatango.com/blog/how-the-tcpa-impacts-text-messa... I don’t know the details about FBs (mis-)use of SMS for this particular situation and IANAL, but perhaps they accidentally opened themselves up to this massive liablitly.

Spooky23 9y ago

The mobile number is the holy grail. You can buy all sorts of evil information from the carriers, and your number is sort of a public key representing you in other contexts.

CaptainZapp 9y ago

About TWO years ago I was constantly annoyed by the 'secure your account: add your phone number here' banner That and an obnoxious, flashing add "It seems you live in Wherever, please klick here if you live in Wherever!" were the actual reason I "deleted" my account about 3 years ago. With all that shit they pulled during only that period it just proves that it was the right decision to make. I never looked back.

letsgetphysITal 9y ago

> I'm really not interested in disconnecting for good at this time This is all they heard.

a_imho 9y ago

It might sound harsh, but from your comment you know exactly what you were doing and the probable consequences. At this point I'm not quite sure simply terminating is the best way forward, sanitizing a profile with disinformation ( or straight filling with garbage up to the brim) might work better?

thatshowitis 9y ago

Very good example of the importance of using open protocols only. By using proprietary protocols like facebook, you completely lack control, they can change whatever they want and you have to take it or quit for good, which can become difficult when you have so many contacts only over that proprietary protocol. If your e-mail provider pulled shit like that, you could simply change to a different provider, or even use your own mail server. Of course there is some peer pressure to join those proprietary networks. But friends will also keep contact without those networks. I never had a facebook account, never joined whatsapp, never used twitter, and am still alive!