13 ms·

Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

65 points by JamieF1 9y ago

amadeusw 9y ago
What's the rationale behind this? Also, can someone explain me why Slack forces Google-themed emojis? I personally like the Windows design with black stroke
- david-cako 9y ago
  It seems like a good idea to prevent any sort of ambiguity about what "emoji" means. These types of apps seem like an incredibly bad idea, because they are diluting what is supposed to be a 100% universal emoticon standard.
- threeseed 9y ago
  One possible reason is for accessibility (VoiceOver) and i18n.
  - couchand 9y ago
    That doesn't make sense. It's a unicode code point, after all, the rendering is immaterial.
- brazzledazzle 9y ago
  You can change the type of emoji Slack uses.
  - bhhaskin 9y ago
    Not any more. [0] [0] https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202931348-Emoji-and-emoticons#change-your-emoji-display https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202931348-Emoji-and...
    - yoz-y 9y ago
      What prompted this? Is there some Apple rule that you can not use a custom font for the emoji keypoints? If so, combined with the "no apple emoji" in interface rule, then it is a real bummer.
geoffpado 9y ago
It seemed later in the week that this got turned around: https://twitter.com/Sam0711er/status/961312320537415681 https://twitter.com/Sam0711er/status/961312320537415681
- dTal 9y ago
  The practical upshot of such a policy would be everyone shipping their own fonts instead of using Apple's system fonts, just to be safe. This would be nothing but trouble - bloated app sizes, more ram pressure, uneven look and feel, and diminished influence on Unicode. A now-deleted tweet by a different developer facing the same issue stated that Apple apparently clarified by saying that using emoji as "media" was forbidden, but "content" was okay. Whatever that means. Between this and the gun/water pistol thing, it really seems like Apple thinks of Unicode as their personal playground, and simply do not think through the network effects of their policies at all.
  - stock_toaster 9y ago
    > using emoji as "media" was forbidden, but "content" was okay. Whatever that means From what I read other places, it meant that if it was non-variable and shipped with the app (UI, app data, etc) then it was "media" and not ok. If it was user supplied (like a text message), externally loaded (web page), etc... then it was "content" and ok.
    - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
      So if a users presses a button that says "Do X": Then the app sends a request to a server to do X and based on the response looks up the text that shipped with the app saying "X completed successfully" which it displays using the system font, that is fine. Then the app sends a request to a server to do X and the server sends back the text "X completed successfully <smiley-face-character>" and the app displays it using the system font, that is fine. Then the app sends a request to a server to do X and based on the response looks up the text that shipped with the app saying "X completed successfully <smiley-face-character>" which it displays using the system font, that is against the rules. That seems incredibly arbitrary and nonsensical if that is an accurate description of the rule.
kazinator 9y ago
> Means if your app displays emoji anywhere without a user having it typed in, it’s illegal and will be rejected. How does that work in a chat app, when the remote user has typed that in on their device?
- egypturnash 9y ago
  Presumably a remote user is still a user. My inner rules lawyer does note that this could pose a problem for any bot that emits emoji...
  - nsxwolf 9y ago
    A bot user is still a user. Maybe.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- manicdee 9y ago
  The distinction is whether you are using the emoji as a UX asset or simply displaying it as part of the interaction between user and app. User enters emoji in their secret diary: great. You allow selection of mood for today by displaying a range of emoji faces: bad
  - gregknicholson 9y ago
    So Facebook can't use the thumbs up emoji as a button label any more? Or is that OK because it's an "image", not an "emoji", despite carrying the exact same meaning as the emoji, and looking indistinguishable from a rendering of the emoji? Or is it OK if they bring their own image file? What if they bring their own emoji font and use that, to improve rendering speed?
kevin_b_er 9y ago
Your key takeaway: System fonts may no longer be used in your iOS application without checking with Apple first.
princekolt 9y ago
Apple's Emoji designs are copyrighted to Apple. The unicode standard only defines character codes, and what they should "generally" look like (hell, Unicode's own example designs are monochrome line drawings). So this makes complete sense. If people started using Apple's logos on the App's UI, they would respond in exactly the same way. And if they're so invested in using emojis as a "key marketing strategy", why didn't they pay an artist to create emojis for their own use?
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  Apple also owns the copyright on their San Fransisco font, but you don't see them blocking approval on apps for having text in the UI. The Roman alphabet only defines what letters should "generally" look like, so it would make sense. You want graphical representations of letters? Bring your own. Those ones are Apple's.
  - sxates 9y ago
    At least in the US, fonts can not by copyrighted [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protection_of_typefaces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protecti...
    - cbuq 9y ago
      "the shapes of typefaces are not copyrightable, though the shapes may be protected by design patent ... A font (the computer code used to display the typeface) may be protected as copyright" So practically, they are copyrighted. Are you going to redesign the TrueType font from scratch?
      - wlesieutre 9y ago
        I suppose they're not violating that, since apps aren't distributing the font file. To whatever degree that apples to San Francisco, does it not also apply to Apple Color Emoji.ttc though? Or does the "font shapes not copyrightable" rule not apply to fonts that have more to them than monochrome shapes?
gruez 9y ago
>We’ll therefore have to remove all emojis from @getBittracker and resubmit a new version. This will remove the “young” feeling in the app and basically destroys one of our key marketing strategies. good.
im3w1l 9y ago
Can someone give some more context for this? What exactly did they do?
msie 9y ago
Sadly, Apple can do whatever it wants. I can't imagine what can change Apple's mind when it comes to stupid App policies. Truly frustrating.

65 points by JamieF1 9y ago

What's the rationale behind this? Also, can someone explain me why Slack forces Google-themed emojis? I personally like the Windows design with black stroke

david-cako 9y ago
It seems like a good idea to prevent any sort of ambiguity about what "emoji" means. These types of apps seem like an incredibly bad idea, because they are diluting what is supposed to be a 100% universal emoticon standard.
threeseed 9y ago
One possible reason is for accessibility (VoiceOver) and i18n.
- couchand 9y ago
  That doesn't make sense. It's a unicode code point, after all, the rendering is immaterial.
brazzledazzle 9y ago
You can change the type of emoji Slack uses.
- bhhaskin 9y ago
  Not any more. [0] [0] https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202931348-Emoji-and-emoticons#change-your-emoji-display https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202931348-Emoji-and...
  - yoz-y 9y ago
    What prompted this? Is there some Apple rule that you can not use a custom font for the emoji keypoints? If so, combined with the "no apple emoji" in interface rule, then it is a real bummer.

geoffpado 9y ago

It seemed later in the week that this got turned around: https://twitter.com/Sam0711er/status/961312320537415681 https://twitter.com/Sam0711er/status/961312320537415681

dTal 9y ago
The practical upshot of such a policy would be everyone shipping their own fonts instead of using Apple's system fonts, just to be safe. This would be nothing but trouble - bloated app sizes, more ram pressure, uneven look and feel, and diminished influence on Unicode. A now-deleted tweet by a different developer facing the same issue stated that Apple apparently clarified by saying that using emoji as "media" was forbidden, but "content" was okay. Whatever that means. Between this and the gun/water pistol thing, it really seems like Apple thinks of Unicode as their personal playground, and simply do not think through the network effects of their policies at all.
- stock_toaster 9y ago
  > using emoji as "media" was forbidden, but "content" was okay. Whatever that means From what I read other places, it meant that if it was non-variable and shipped with the app (UI, app data, etc) then it was "media" and not ok. If it was user supplied (like a text message), externally loaded (web page), etc... then it was "content" and ok.
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    So if a users presses a button that says "Do X": Then the app sends a request to a server to do X and based on the response looks up the text that shipped with the app saying "X completed successfully" which it displays using the system font, that is fine. Then the app sends a request to a server to do X and the server sends back the text "X completed successfully <smiley-face-character>" and the app displays it using the system font, that is fine. Then the app sends a request to a server to do X and based on the response looks up the text that shipped with the app saying "X completed successfully <smiley-face-character>" which it displays using the system font, that is against the rules. That seems incredibly arbitrary and nonsensical if that is an accurate description of the rule.

kazinator 9y ago

> Means if your app displays emoji anywhere without a user having it typed in, it’s illegal and will be rejected. How does that work in a chat app, when the remote user has typed that in on their device?

egypturnash 9y ago
Presumably a remote user is still a user. My inner rules lawyer does note that this could pose a problem for any bot that emits emoji...
- nsxwolf 9y ago
  A bot user is still a user. Maybe.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
manicdee 9y ago
The distinction is whether you are using the emoji as a UX asset or simply displaying it as part of the interaction between user and app. User enters emoji in their secret diary: great. You allow selection of mood for today by displaying a range of emoji faces: bad
- gregknicholson 9y ago
  So Facebook can't use the thumbs up emoji as a button label any more? Or is that OK because it's an "image", not an "emoji", despite carrying the exact same meaning as the emoji, and looking indistinguishable from a rendering of the emoji? Or is it OK if they bring their own image file? What if they bring their own emoji font and use that, to improve rendering speed?

kevin_b_er 9y ago

Your key takeaway: System fonts may no longer be used in your iOS application without checking with Apple first.

princekolt 9y ago

Apple's Emoji designs are copyrighted to Apple. The unicode standard only defines character codes, and what they should "generally" look like (hell, Unicode's own example designs are monochrome line drawings). So this makes complete sense. If people started using Apple's logos on the App's UI, they would respond in exactly the same way. And if they're so invested in using emojis as a "key marketing strategy", why didn't they pay an artist to create emojis for their own use?

wlesieutre 9y ago
Apple also owns the copyright on their San Fransisco font, but you don't see them blocking approval on apps for having text in the UI. The Roman alphabet only defines what letters should "generally" look like, so it would make sense. You want graphical representations of letters? Bring your own. Those ones are Apple's.
- sxates 9y ago
  At least in the US, fonts can not by copyrighted [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protection_of_typefaces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protecti...
  - cbuq 9y ago
    "the shapes of typefaces are not copyrightable, though the shapes may be protected by design patent ... A font (the computer code used to display the typeface) may be protected as copyright" So practically, they are copyrighted. Are you going to redesign the TrueType font from scratch?
    - wlesieutre 9y ago
      I suppose they're not violating that, since apps aren't distributing the font file. To whatever degree that apples to San Francisco, does it not also apply to Apple Color Emoji.ttc though? Or does the "font shapes not copyrightable" rule not apply to fonts that have more to them than monochrome shapes?

gruez 9y ago

>We’ll therefore have to remove all emojis from @getBittracker and resubmit a new version. This will remove the “young” feeling in the app and basically destroys one of our key marketing strategies. good.

im3w1l 9y ago

Can someone give some more context for this? What exactly did they do?

msie 9y ago

Sadly, Apple can do whatever it wants. I can't imagine what can change Apple's mind when it comes to stupid App policies. Truly frustrating.