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First off: consent is, by definition, simply an agreement. To have consent is to have an agreement. A lot of things in this world don't have a formal or even in
by peterwwillis 9y ago
First off: consent is, by definition, simply an agreement. To have consent is to have an agreement. A lot of things in this world don't have a formal or even informal agreement, but happen anyway, and aren't immediately considered bad due to the lack of a prearranged agreement. Consent can become complicated because human interactions are often complicated. So it's not a good idea to generalize about consent, because it varies dramatically depending on circumstances.
> The thing that separates rape from sex is consent.
That's not true, but I'm sure a lot of people are trying to make that seem true.
> Arguably, the thing that determines whether any behavior that involves more than one person is okay or isn't is whether all parties consent.
What determines whether behavior is okay or isn't is society's moral standards. Consent is a part of this in some circumstances. You could argue that there are unwritten societal rules that we implicitly consent to as members of a society, but certainly not everything we do in society involves consent.
For example, according to law, I do not need your consent to talk to you. But it would appear that saying hello to a stranger is not considered bad behavior. Perhaps I have implicit consent to say hello to strangers? Or perhaps we just didn't need consent?
> Why should a third party come in and decide for them whether behavior they consent to is acceptable?
A lot of reasons, again, depending on the circumstance. The concept of 'informed consent' in medicine requires that a person be fully informed of the risks and consequences of a procedure before they can legally be said to have consented. This is to protect the patient as well as the surgeon. There is no consenting for assault according to federal law, which is designed to prevent difficult legal situations where someone might be said to have invited an assault. And there is the concept of 'implicit consent' when you obtain a driver's license that you will submit yourself to a chemical test for driving under the influence if a police officer has cause.
You don't really have human rights. You have human privileges.
- AnimalMuppet 9y ago> > The thing that separates rape from sex is consent. > That's not true, but I'm sure a lot of people are trying to make that seem true. What do you think the difference is then? And why do you think that your definition of the difference is more correct than the definition that the difference is consent?
- peterwwillis 9y agoFor one thing, because rape isn't a clearly defined concept. It doesn't have a single definition, and it isn't even codified in federal law. It's a general concept which has a historical and general understanding as violent sexual assault, but modern interpretation has expanded to include a wide variety of activities. The definition above becomes more hairy once you realize that there is no easy way to determine consent. Even if someone verbally agrees to something, you don't necessarily know if they were properly informed as to the consequences, or if they were intimidated, or misled, or felt obligated, or even if they were mentally competent at the time. As an aside: if rape and sex are separate, does that mean rape doesn't involve sex? But sex is basically copulation. And that can certainly happen during rape. And rape can happen without copulation. So they're separate ideas, but whether they apply to one another depends on the circumstance. So basically, the entire definition depends on the particular interpretation of two different concepts and trying to differentiate them in context. If you can establish those things with certainty, perhaps the definition is valid. But there's a lot of 'if's floating around for that to be a reliable definition.
- noobermin 9y agoIf you muddy the definition of rape to be so broad, it uses its utility as a concept and a term. That would do more to hurt victims of sexual assault and sexism in general than it helps.
- AnimalMuppet 9y agouses -> loses At least, I presume that's what you mean...
- peterwwillis 9y agoI'm not muddying anything. Come up with a specific definition and I can show you an example where it doesn't work. This is why the law doesn't use the word! Instead there are laws against specific kinds of behavior that could be said to be rape, but use different terminology and apply in different ways. It's counter-productuve to cling to this one word to describe complex situations just because of the emotional weight and general ambiguity that the word carries.