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Should we continue to trust the Chinese government when they report improvements in other areas such as green energy and clean air? How can we know those number

Should we continue to trust the Chinese government when they report improvements in other areas such as green energy and clean air? How can we know those numbers aren’t doctored like these ones were?

dovdovdov 9y ago
“I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself” ― Winston S. Churchill
- imron 9y ago
  "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln
mikeash 9y ago
At least clean air in cities can be verified just by being there.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
- mazerackham 9y ago
  Wow...
ithinkinstereo 9y ago
Well, the Chinese are strongly incentivized to actually fix those issues, so while they may lie in the near-term, I do believe they're _actually_ committed to addressing these problems. Outside of economic stagnation, environmental disasters are the no. 1 perceived threat today to rule & order by the CCP.
anthonyleecook 9y ago
actually you are correct; local governments in China have been known to fake air data https://medium.com/@shanghaiist/officials-use-mist-cannon-to-fake-air-quality-data-end-up-freezing-building-31f2404e2b70 https://medium.com/@shanghaiist/officials-use-mist-cannon-to... and this year, Shanghai's air pollution has been worse than Beijing. Some say due to the cold air pushing the pollution down this year. https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/02/12/shanghai-air-pollution-worse-beijing/ https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/02/12/shanghai-air-pol...
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Beijing actually made huge improvements using drastic methods to eliminate coal consumption in the rural regions surrounding Beijing. This has made heating a bit bothersome (some poorer or colder villagers, natural gas shortages), but has improved air quality substantially.
  - anthonyleecook 9y ago
    Beijing’s air is better because that’s where the emperor is ;). (Or what my Chinese friends call him, Xi baozi - xi dumpling)
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      That was not true for a really long time though, Beijing was still pretty bad even last year. Mr. 11 can always just go off to his villa somewhere else anyways.

dovdovdov 9y ago

“I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself” ― Winston S. Churchill

imron 9y ago
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" -- Abraham Lincoln

mikeash 9y ago

At least clean air in cities can be verified just by being there.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

mazerackham 9y ago
Wow...

ithinkinstereo 9y ago

Well, the Chinese are strongly incentivized to actually fix those issues, so while they may lie in the near-term, I do believe they're _actually_ committed to addressing these problems. Outside of economic stagnation, environmental disasters are the no. 1 perceived threat today to rule & order by the CCP.

anthonyleecook 9y ago

actually you are correct; local governments in China have been known to fake air data https://medium.com/@shanghaiist/officials-use-mist-cannon-to-fake-air-quality-data-end-up-freezing-building-31f2404e2b70 https://medium.com/@shanghaiist/officials-use-mist-cannon-to... and this year, Shanghai's air pollution has been worse than Beijing. Some say due to the cold air pushing the pollution down this year. https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/02/12/shanghai-air-pollution-worse-beijing/ https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/02/12/shanghai-air-pol...

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Beijing actually made huge improvements using drastic methods to eliminate coal consumption in the rural regions surrounding Beijing. This has made heating a bit bothersome (some poorer or colder villagers, natural gas shortages), but has improved air quality substantially.
- anthonyleecook 9y ago
  Beijing’s air is better because that’s where the emperor is ;). (Or what my Chinese friends call him, Xi baozi - xi dumpling)
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    That was not true for a really long time though, Beijing was still pretty bad even last year. Mr. 11 can always just go off to his villa somewhere else anyways.