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I think it’s pretty reasonable to state that gig economy employees are contractors, for the most part. If you set your own hours, then you’re your own boss. Th

I think it’s pretty reasonable to state that gig economy employees are contractors, for the most part. If you set your own hours, then you’re your own boss. The problem - in America, at least - is that contractors are denied benefits like health insurance and pensions/401k plans. But the issue of an inadequate social safety net is separate and much deeper than a mere employee/contractor distinction. Otherwise it remains a game of IRS musical chairs.

ThrustVectoring 9y ago
>contractors are denied benefits like health insurance and pensions/401k plans As their own employers, independent contractors can (and probably should) set up one-participant 401k plans for themselves. This can have significant advantages, since the "employer" gets to select the terms for the 401k, and employer-sponsored plans often drop terms that cost less than the value it'd provide you (eg, in-service Roth conversion + after-tax contributions).
- around_here 9y ago
  They totally should on those sweet less-than-minimum contract wages. The lives of a high-flying contractor doing skilled work are very, very different than someone who faces a the "gig" contracts.
  - Dylan16807 9y ago
    Totally separate issue. An employment contract with a beautiful, perfect 401k setup could also pay too little for you to save anything.
tabeth 9y ago
I've never understood this logic. Shouldn't you be able to set your own hours and prices?
- ars 9y ago
  > and prices? You can, sure. Doesn't mean anyone will hire you. The fact that someone offered a particular rate, and you agreed, doesn't really change anything material. To me a contractor can decide to work that day, or not work (doesn't matter why - could be timing, or doesn't agree with the pay), and it's fine - if he works he gets paid, if not, he doesn't. In contrast an employee has to work every day (other than agreed breaks), or he'll be fired, and no further work will come.
  - tabeth 9y ago
    How do you set your own prices? A contract is about autonomy. If you're forced to follow rules, e.g. can't set prices, how is that any different than an employee?
    - ars 9y ago
      > If you're forced to follow rules, e.g. can't set prices But you're not forced to set prices. It's just you won't be hired if your price is too high. Is a grocery forced to set a particular price, if people won't buy the product at a lower price because a competitor has it? If I say "I'll buy rice from you for $10", am I forcing the other guy to sell at $10? He can set whatever price he likes. I just won't buy it. Maybe someone else will.
      - tabeth 9y ago
        I'm not sure you understand how a contractor generally works. Sure you won't get hired, however a contractor can set a price. So the question is, can you set a price with GrubHub? Perhaps a driver will want to have a lower price in order to compete with volume; or a higher price because they're faster. GrubHub drivers can do... neither? Your example is nonsensical. We're talking about the distinction between an employee and a contractor. Not a store selling products. And again, to my knowledge drivers cannot set prices no GrubHub to begin with, so what you're saying is just irrelevant.
        9y ago
CPLX 9y ago
That's a misconception. There are plenty of employees who work on piecework or an ad hoc basis. Setting ones own hours isn't really a cornerstone test for contractor status. Certainly much less so than the ability to set prices or subcontract.
username223 9y ago
> The problem - in America, at least - is that contractors are denied benefits like health insurance and pensions/401k plans. The problem is much larger, and the "sharing" economy companies (and YC) are way ahead of you. It's more accurate to call it the "loophole" economy. A hotel chain that doesn't have to obey health and safety rules? It's called AirBnB! A taxi company that pays its under-insured drivers less than minimum wage? It's Uber! Exploiting a legal loophole and calling it "tech" is currently a lucrative enterprise.

ThrustVectoring 9y ago

>contractors are denied benefits like health insurance and pensions/401k plans As their own employers, independent contractors can (and probably should) set up one-participant 401k plans for themselves. This can have significant advantages, since the "employer" gets to select the terms for the 401k, and employer-sponsored plans often drop terms that cost less than the value it'd provide you (eg, in-service Roth conversion + after-tax contributions).

around_here 9y ago
They totally should on those sweet less-than-minimum contract wages. The lives of a high-flying contractor doing skilled work are very, very different than someone who faces a the "gig" contracts.
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  Totally separate issue. An employment contract with a beautiful, perfect 401k setup could also pay too little for you to save anything.

tabeth 9y ago

I've never understood this logic. Shouldn't you be able to set your own hours and prices?

ars 9y ago
> and prices? You can, sure. Doesn't mean anyone will hire you. The fact that someone offered a particular rate, and you agreed, doesn't really change anything material. To me a contractor can decide to work that day, or not work (doesn't matter why - could be timing, or doesn't agree with the pay), and it's fine - if he works he gets paid, if not, he doesn't. In contrast an employee has to work every day (other than agreed breaks), or he'll be fired, and no further work will come.
- tabeth 9y ago
  How do you set your own prices? A contract is about autonomy. If you're forced to follow rules, e.g. can't set prices, how is that any different than an employee?
  - ars 9y ago
    > If you're forced to follow rules, e.g. can't set prices But you're not forced to set prices. It's just you won't be hired if your price is too high. Is a grocery forced to set a particular price, if people won't buy the product at a lower price because a competitor has it? If I say "I'll buy rice from you for $10", am I forcing the other guy to sell at $10? He can set whatever price he likes. I just won't buy it. Maybe someone else will.
    - tabeth 9y ago
      I'm not sure you understand how a contractor generally works. Sure you won't get hired, however a contractor can set a price. So the question is, can you set a price with GrubHub? Perhaps a driver will want to have a lower price in order to compete with volume; or a higher price because they're faster. GrubHub drivers can do... neither? Your example is nonsensical. We're talking about the distinction between an employee and a contractor. Not a store selling products. And again, to my knowledge drivers cannot set prices no GrubHub to begin with, so what you're saying is just irrelevant.
      - 9y ago

CPLX 9y ago

That's a misconception. There are plenty of employees who work on piecework or an ad hoc basis. Setting ones own hours isn't really a cornerstone test for contractor status. Certainly much less so than the ability to set prices or subcontract.

username223 9y ago

> The problem - in America, at least - is that contractors are denied benefits like health insurance and pensions/401k plans. The problem is much larger, and the "sharing" economy companies (and YC) are way ahead of you. It's more accurate to call it the "loophole" economy. A hotel chain that doesn't have to obey health and safety rules? It's called AirBnB! A taxi company that pays its under-insured drivers less than minimum wage? It's Uber! Exploiting a legal loophole and calling it "tech" is currently a lucrative enterprise.