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The U.S. median income is $59,000. There’s no reason if you’re making that much money to not have $500 saved up, so by definition of median at least 50% of Amer

The U.S. median income is $59,000. There’s no reason if you’re making that much money to not have $500 saved up, so by definition of median at least 50% of Americans should have some kind of emergency fund... I’ve made less money than that and still had money saved up.

iamaelephant 9y ago
Come over here to Sydney and let's see how well you live on that $59k. Your post is far too broad.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  The OP specifically mentions the U.S. In the U.S. as cost of living increases, so does median income. New York City and the SF Bay Area have median incomes that are tens of thousands dollars higher than the U.S. median income.
- King-Aaron 9y ago
  Stop buying coffee and avocado then and start buying a house... Sheesh!
  - FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
    I suspect the audience here on Hacker News aren't familiar with your reference, hence the down votes. Millionaire tells millennials to stop buying avocado on toast [to save $150,000 for a deposit on a house): https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/austral...
vvanders 9y ago
That's totally dependent on cost of living and many are making less than that.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  Median income generally increases in areas with a high cost of living. In the San Francisco Bay Area the three largest cities and counties have median income going from $87,000 to $103,000.
  - vvanders 9y ago
    Cool, so half of your people are above 87-103k, the other half are good and properly fucked in that situation. Maybe when we're talking about the bottom 10% or 20% I'll care less but having lived in that situation where even one major would have wiped us out I think it's a pretty serious problem that's often overlooked or blamed away. I'm doing fine now(yay getting out of gamedev) but I'm always shocked how few of my coworkers are aware that most people are just scraping by.
  - PatchMonkey 9y ago
    https://apnews.com/9309128222ab4c4f92b0d0022e1ec133/In-shadow-of-tech-boom,-the-working-homeless-sleep-in-cars https://apnews.com/9309128222ab4c4f92b0d0022e1ec133/In-shado... Oh look, a news story about people with full-time jobs having to sleep in cars.
- RyanCavanaugh 9y ago
  Re: sibling comment, citing high wages in SF as evidence that cost of living pushes up wages is getting the direction of causation at least 50% wrong. You might equally say that owning a Rolex increases your income, since it seems most people who have one make a lot of money.
- ModernMech 9y ago
  Even with $100k in SF, it can be tough to save with a family. Let's do some math. Taxes are about 25%, so you're down to $75k right off the bat. Median rent in SF is $3880, so that's $46560 a year on rent. We're down to $28k. Last year I spent $11k on student loans, between me and my wife, and we're down to $17k. $1700 on electricity and internet: $15k. Car payment and gas was $3k, down to $12k. We're left with $1000 a month for food, clothing, and everything else in one of the most expensive cities in the US, a city where a hamburger can easily cost $20. That doesn't go very far at all. Add in the medical debt I have, and I was pretty much broke at the end of each month.
seattle_spring 9y ago
That's the figure for the median household income. That means that many people "in the middle" are making 59k between 2 people and probably several kids.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  The average household contains 2.54 people for 2017. Remember that households also includes things like roommates, cohabiting couples, and adult children living in the basement. The idea of an average household having 2 parents and several kids ended around 1973 [0], assuming that back when households had around an average of 3 occupants it was due to the so called "atomic family." 0: https://www.statista.com/statistics/183648/average-size-of-households-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183648/average-size-of-h...
  - seattle_spring 9y ago
    So $23k per person per year. That's absolutely nothing.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  Step 1: don't have several kids.
  - codetwelve 9y ago
    Correction Step 0: Don't be in a society that frowns upon sexual education, contraceptives and planned parenthood.
    - imtringued 9y ago
      Step -1: Have access to vaccines so that you don't have to account for child mortality.
    - craftyguy 9y ago
      Wow, yea, if only that were true.
jachee 9y ago
Being poor is being preached at by Silicon Valley know-it-alls about how you're not saving enough of your not-big-enough paycheck.
King-Aaron 9y ago
> There’s no reason if you’re making that much money to not have $500 saved up That's a pretty hard comment to digest. There are a plethora of reasons that could prevent people in a low income bracket to save that sort of money.
codetwelve 9y ago
Some people go to college and be indebted and come out with no job or one that doesn't pay enough to pay off their debt. Some people NEED a car to get anywhere with America's car culture. Some people get sick or know someone who gets sick. Some people need to support others not their own kids but a family member. Some have disabilities whether it be physical or mental. Have some empathy, try to see that your life is not that of another and people aren't just "lazy to save" or "spend too much". The sooner people realize America's systems and institutions need A LOT of work, the better it is for your country. The constant touting of "I did this, it was easy, why can't you? Stop being stupid." helps nobody at all and just shows how self absorbed American culture is. Looking down at others to make themselves feel good is not evolved and as an outsider looking into American culture, I always wonder what makes America this way? Is it the celebrity culture? Other countries have this but not to the extent of the US. You have people who are rich and famous - for being rich and famous... And they are praised by millions in your country. I'd rather be in a country where the majority can live a decent life no matter their situation and the culture of showing off your riches is actually frowned upon socially.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  The "some" here is representing 57% of the population. While the proportion without savings is probably correlated with income, there are people making six figures with no money saved. According to some sources, nearly half of people making $100,000 to $150,000 have less than $1,000 saved up. 18% of these people have nothing saved up [0] This isn't about having empathy (hell my family regularly asks for "loans" that never get paid back so they can make rent and mortgage payments), it's about people not taking responsibility. If you're making six figures, I can't imagine what the excuse is for not having an emergency fund. 0: Make Six Figures? There's a Decent Chance You've Got Almost Nothing in the Bank https://bloom.bg/2cQ97hN https://bloom.bg/2cQ97hN
- emodendroket 9y ago
  There is a lot of back-and-forth on this issue, but honestly I think simultaneously both positions are true: people are not making enough money and are in precarious, difficult financial situations. But many also do not use their money wisely. For many people it's not an either-or but rather both things are true.
PatchMonkey 9y ago
When was that? Should we adjust for inflation? How has the cost of housing changed? What additional monthly expenses have emerged as necessary to participate in society?
PatchMonkey 9y ago
Yes. Median. Meaning half of people are below that level that you found no reason to leave, ya lazy bum.

iamaelephant 9y ago

Come over here to Sydney and let's see how well you live on that $59k. Your post is far too broad.

jdavis703 9y ago
The OP specifically mentions the U.S. In the U.S. as cost of living increases, so does median income. New York City and the SF Bay Area have median incomes that are tens of thousands dollars higher than the U.S. median income.
King-Aaron 9y ago
Stop buying coffee and avocado then and start buying a house... Sheesh!
- FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
  I suspect the audience here on Hacker News aren't familiar with your reference, hence the down votes. Millionaire tells millennials to stop buying avocado on toast [to save $150,000 for a deposit on a house): https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/austral...

vvanders 9y ago

That's totally dependent on cost of living and many are making less than that.

jdavis703 9y ago
Median income generally increases in areas with a high cost of living. In the San Francisco Bay Area the three largest cities and counties have median income going from $87,000 to $103,000.
- vvanders 9y ago
  Cool, so half of your people are above 87-103k, the other half are good and properly fucked in that situation. Maybe when we're talking about the bottom 10% or 20% I'll care less but having lived in that situation where even one major would have wiped us out I think it's a pretty serious problem that's often overlooked or blamed away. I'm doing fine now(yay getting out of gamedev) but I'm always shocked how few of my coworkers are aware that most people are just scraping by.
- PatchMonkey 9y ago
  https://apnews.com/9309128222ab4c4f92b0d0022e1ec133/In-shadow-of-tech-boom,-the-working-homeless-sleep-in-cars https://apnews.com/9309128222ab4c4f92b0d0022e1ec133/In-shado... Oh look, a news story about people with full-time jobs having to sleep in cars.
RyanCavanaugh 9y ago
Re: sibling comment, citing high wages in SF as evidence that cost of living pushes up wages is getting the direction of causation at least 50% wrong. You might equally say that owning a Rolex increases your income, since it seems most people who have one make a lot of money.
ModernMech 9y ago
Even with $100k in SF, it can be tough to save with a family. Let's do some math. Taxes are about 25%, so you're down to $75k right off the bat. Median rent in SF is $3880, so that's $46560 a year on rent. We're down to $28k. Last year I spent $11k on student loans, between me and my wife, and we're down to $17k. $1700 on electricity and internet: $15k. Car payment and gas was $3k, down to $12k. We're left with $1000 a month for food, clothing, and everything else in one of the most expensive cities in the US, a city where a hamburger can easily cost $20. That doesn't go very far at all. Add in the medical debt I have, and I was pretty much broke at the end of each month.

seattle_spring 9y ago

That's the figure for the median household income. That means that many people "in the middle" are making 59k between 2 people and probably several kids.

jdavis703 9y ago
The average household contains 2.54 people for 2017. Remember that households also includes things like roommates, cohabiting couples, and adult children living in the basement. The idea of an average household having 2 parents and several kids ended around 1973 [0], assuming that back when households had around an average of 3 occupants it was due to the so called "atomic family." 0: https://www.statista.com/statistics/183648/average-size-of-households-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183648/average-size-of-h...
- seattle_spring 9y ago
  So $23k per person per year. That's absolutely nothing.
craftyguy 9y ago
Step 1: don't have several kids.
- codetwelve 9y ago
  Correction Step 0: Don't be in a society that frowns upon sexual education, contraceptives and planned parenthood.
  - imtringued 9y ago
    Step -1: Have access to vaccines so that you don't have to account for child mortality.
  - craftyguy 9y ago
    Wow, yea, if only that were true.

jachee 9y ago

Being poor is being preached at by Silicon Valley know-it-alls about how you're not saving enough of your not-big-enough paycheck.

King-Aaron 9y ago

> There’s no reason if you’re making that much money to not have $500 saved up That's a pretty hard comment to digest. There are a plethora of reasons that could prevent people in a low income bracket to save that sort of money.

codetwelve 9y ago

Some people go to college and be indebted and come out with no job or one that doesn't pay enough to pay off their debt. Some people NEED a car to get anywhere with America's car culture. Some people get sick or know someone who gets sick. Some people need to support others not their own kids but a family member. Some have disabilities whether it be physical or mental. Have some empathy, try to see that your life is not that of another and people aren't just "lazy to save" or "spend too much". The sooner people realize America's systems and institutions need A LOT of work, the better it is for your country. The constant touting of "I did this, it was easy, why can't you? Stop being stupid." helps nobody at all and just shows how self absorbed American culture is. Looking down at others to make themselves feel good is not evolved and as an outsider looking into American culture, I always wonder what makes America this way? Is it the celebrity culture? Other countries have this but not to the extent of the US. You have people who are rich and famous - for being rich and famous... And they are praised by millions in your country. I'd rather be in a country where the majority can live a decent life no matter their situation and the culture of showing off your riches is actually frowned upon socially.

jdavis703 9y ago
The "some" here is representing 57% of the population. While the proportion without savings is probably correlated with income, there are people making six figures with no money saved. According to some sources, nearly half of people making $100,000 to $150,000 have less than $1,000 saved up. 18% of these people have nothing saved up [0] This isn't about having empathy (hell my family regularly asks for "loans" that never get paid back so they can make rent and mortgage payments), it's about people not taking responsibility. If you're making six figures, I can't imagine what the excuse is for not having an emergency fund. 0: Make Six Figures? There's a Decent Chance You've Got Almost Nothing in the Bank https://bloom.bg/2cQ97hN https://bloom.bg/2cQ97hN
emodendroket 9y ago
There is a lot of back-and-forth on this issue, but honestly I think simultaneously both positions are true: people are not making enough money and are in precarious, difficult financial situations. But many also do not use their money wisely. For many people it's not an either-or but rather both things are true.

PatchMonkey 9y ago

When was that? Should we adjust for inflation? How has the cost of housing changed? What additional monthly expenses have emerged as necessary to participate in society?

PatchMonkey 9y ago

Yes. Median. Meaning half of people are below that level that you found no reason to leave, ya lazy bum.