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Poor people in London don't burn wood, they use prepay meters which cost a fortune to top up. This is because: a) Wood burners are expensive and trendy b) It

Poor people in London don't burn wood, they use prepay meters which cost a fortune to top up. This is because: a) Wood burners are expensive and trendy b) It takes time and energy to get and/or chop up wood (you really need a car to pick it up at least) c) You need a good credit rating to get access to cheaper gas/elec tariffs, so prepay meters is usually the only thing a poor person can qualify for Banning wood burning stoves would be a great move overall. If wood-burning is really that much more efficient (it isn't) then let's centralize it and burn wood in the power plants instead of coal. I really wanted a wood burner (it's fun to burn wood, creates a tremendous amount of heat and looks awesome), but now I know the environmental costs I won't get one - it's completely irresponsible to use one in a city.

thriftwy 9y ago
> prepay meters Wow, that's a nasty way to treat your citizens! How it's done usually: Any apartment or house has a meter. You have to pay by KWh from time to time. If it doesn't get paid, it's eventually owner's problem. Bonus points for multi-range electricity meters and central heating. Extra points for central heating with heating meters (OK just kidding about this one).
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
  > Wow, that's a nasty way to treat your citizens! How do you mean? If someone can't afford to pay, they need to seek help. Why should this suddenly become the problem of the owner of the building? Why should she be the person crediting another person? There are different ways to solve this problem and shifting it to the owner isn't the most fair one.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    The assumption here is that a random tenant won't afford to pay for electricity. Which isn't a huge bill as bills go. I'm kind of shocked by a culture which assumes that kind of thing. Also, electricity is a kind of neccesity so cutting someone's electricity is a bit like leaving them endangered, which is arguably a crime. The owner of a building has to collect rent anyway, so I don't see why electricity would be an especial concern.
- NLips 9y ago
  You missed a crucial step: 1.5: owner gets fed up of paying tenant's bills, installs prepay meters
  - gambiting 9y ago
    I don't know what kind of setup would require this, I've had 8 different rental properties in UK so far and every single time the gas/electricity were in my name, not in the landlord's name.
    - dazc 9y ago
      At lower end of the market it's more common, AFAIK, especially these houses where they've split them into 3 or 4 seperate units (multi-occupancy) and it's impractical to have 3/4 different metered supplies. In my younger days I had a bedsit with a coin-meter even though there was a separate meter in the hallway. Landlord had it set to a crazy high rate so he was making a profit on it. One day two guys forcibly entered the building to cut off the supply because he hadn't been paying the bill. According to them, my set up wasn't exactly unique.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    Usually, when tenant is incapable of paying bills, he becomes ex-tenant.
- albertgoeswoof 9y ago
  It gets worse: - Typical prepay meter cost: £1,026 - Typical credit meter cost: £807
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    Whooooa! My meter probably cost me ~£150. It's pretty high tech at that price mark. Does £800 meter also doubles as a HDTV?
- gambiting 9y ago
  Prepay only exists for people with extremely poor credit history, or if you fail to pay your bills few times in a row, the electricity/gas company will forcibly switch you to prepay. >> Extra points for central heating with heating meters (OK just kidding about this one). I used to live in an apartment that had a heating meter on every single individual radiator - but then the heating was provided by a central boiler room and I guess there wasn't a single point of entry into the apartment to measure the inflow there.
  - albertgoeswoof 9y ago
    There's 5.9mn people in the UK on them - it's not a small amount
- alistairSH 9y ago
  Usually in the US? Metered electricity is common in working class areas of the UK. I don't know the history behind it, but as an outsider, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    That's a societal equivalent of a fridge with a lock on it. Yes you can think of reasons for that, but they're not especially pleasing.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Prepay is especially common in Beijing...nothing like the hot water expiring during a shower! In Beijing, though, it isn’t that bad price wise, and heating is central (and vastly shaded, since the whole apartment buildings are heated).

thriftwy 9y ago

> prepay meters Wow, that's a nasty way to treat your citizens! How it's done usually: Any apartment or house has a meter. You have to pay by KWh from time to time. If it doesn't get paid, it's eventually owner's problem. Bonus points for multi-range electricity meters and central heating. Extra points for central heating with heating meters (OK just kidding about this one).

dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
> Wow, that's a nasty way to treat your citizens! How do you mean? If someone can't afford to pay, they need to seek help. Why should this suddenly become the problem of the owner of the building? Why should she be the person crediting another person? There are different ways to solve this problem and shifting it to the owner isn't the most fair one.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  The assumption here is that a random tenant won't afford to pay for electricity. Which isn't a huge bill as bills go. I'm kind of shocked by a culture which assumes that kind of thing. Also, electricity is a kind of neccesity so cutting someone's electricity is a bit like leaving them endangered, which is arguably a crime. The owner of a building has to collect rent anyway, so I don't see why electricity would be an especial concern.
NLips 9y ago
You missed a crucial step: 1.5: owner gets fed up of paying tenant's bills, installs prepay meters
- gambiting 9y ago
  I don't know what kind of setup would require this, I've had 8 different rental properties in UK so far and every single time the gas/electricity were in my name, not in the landlord's name.
  - dazc 9y ago
    At lower end of the market it's more common, AFAIK, especially these houses where they've split them into 3 or 4 seperate units (multi-occupancy) and it's impractical to have 3/4 different metered supplies. In my younger days I had a bedsit with a coin-meter even though there was a separate meter in the hallway. Landlord had it set to a crazy high rate so he was making a profit on it. One day two guys forcibly entered the building to cut off the supply because he hadn't been paying the bill. According to them, my set up wasn't exactly unique.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  Usually, when tenant is incapable of paying bills, he becomes ex-tenant.
albertgoeswoof 9y ago
It gets worse: - Typical prepay meter cost: £1,026 - Typical credit meter cost: £807
- thriftwy 9y ago
  Whooooa! My meter probably cost me ~£150. It's pretty high tech at that price mark. Does £800 meter also doubles as a HDTV?
gambiting 9y ago
Prepay only exists for people with extremely poor credit history, or if you fail to pay your bills few times in a row, the electricity/gas company will forcibly switch you to prepay. >> Extra points for central heating with heating meters (OK just kidding about this one). I used to live in an apartment that had a heating meter on every single individual radiator - but then the heating was provided by a central boiler room and I guess there wasn't a single point of entry into the apartment to measure the inflow there.
- albertgoeswoof 9y ago
  There's 5.9mn people in the UK on them - it's not a small amount
alistairSH 9y ago
Usually in the US? Metered electricity is common in working class areas of the UK. I don't know the history behind it, but as an outsider, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  That's a societal equivalent of a fridge with a lock on it. Yes you can think of reasons for that, but they're not especially pleasing.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Prepay is especially common in Beijing...nothing like the hot water expiring during a shower! In Beijing, though, it isn’t that bad price wise, and heating is central (and vastly shaded, since the whole apartment buildings are heated).