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> They just happen to be younger, or women, or of color. Maybe parent was referring to their mannerisms, rather than their appearance. It's not fair to jump t
by ColanR 9y ago
> They just happen to be younger, or women, or of color.
Maybe parent was referring to their mannerisms, rather than their appearance. It's not fair to jump to the assumption that parent was showing a bias against any of those variations in the human species.
- gameswithgo 9y agoEven mannerisms may be a bias we should try to fight.
- ColanR 9y agoPoint is, it's not fair to assume that _any_ bias was being shown. I don't think anyone believes that "PR person" or "paid actor" is a bad profession. You're assuming the parent was biased against something, and I'm suggesting that the parent discovered some mannerisms were not as indicative of a specific profession as they thought, and said so.
- simplify 9y agoIt's not an assumption, it's in the parent comment itself: > The other hosts are great, but if you told me they were hired actors or PR people I'd believe it.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- stouset 9y agoI upvoted you, but I think it’s important to recognize that unconscious biases often manifest in exactly that way. White men have made up the majority of the scientists and engineers we’ve been exposed to in the past, so we associate the mannerisms of white men with them. Women and POC haven’t, so we don’t associate traits common to them with the persona we expect of those professions.
- ColanR 9y agoSure, new mannerisms serve to flag people as scientists and engineers. But again, you're implicitly both assuming, and accusing the parent of, bias (against women, minorities, and young folks). Not only that, but there isn't any defense after you involve the 'unconscious mind'.
- stouset 9y agoFor the record, I am not accusing the parent of bias. I'm simply pointing out that bias often manifests indirectly. The core problem with bias is that it fundamentally is about the unconscious mind, and is not generally based on ill will. That doesn't make it any less real, or any less damaging. We all have biases. The important takeaway is that it isn't about blame or accusations, it's about highlighting when bias appears so that people become more aware of when and how their unconscious associations might be coloring their thinking.
- WillReplyfFood 9y agoWe also conspired to stop people of colour and woman from forming theire own companys and research facilities. We are evil incarnated.
- Old_Thrashbarg 9y agoTo be pedantic, the poster did say "looks like" and: - "looks like" is associated with physical appearance - possibly things like clothes, jewelry, gender, hair, skin color, face, etc. - "sounds like" is associated with their speech - tone, accent, choice of diction - "acts like" is associated with physical behavior + speech But anyway, I think the point is that, we don't know what mabbo's intent was and 95% likely it was totally benign, but CydeWes is pointing out that saying things like that has a harmful effect by propagating certain stereotypes. Pointing out someone's implicit biases is not necessarily a personal attack on them. Everyone has them so we should welcome when people point them out (unless done in an mean-spirited or aggressive fashion). Personally, when I read mabbo's comment, I thought, "Yeah, so true, good point!", then I read the next comment and I thought, "Oh right, thanks for pointing that out to me".
- randyrand 9y agoWe should also welcome pointing about the stupidity in assuming things always boil down to race/gender/sexual orientation. It should be obvious that aesthetic stereotypes go far beyond race and gender. Here's 2 very stereotypically different white guys: http://ricerfiles.gizmore.org/images/20160629/28030-human-hacker-social-engineer-stereotype.jpg http://ricerfiles.gizmore.org/images/20160629/28030-human-ha... and this: https://i1.adis.ws/i/Superdry_com/NS_MP_Hoodies_hb_right?qlt=60&w=600 https://i1.adis.ws/i/Superdry_com/NS_MP_Hoodies_hb_right?qlt... But to some people, they only think in race/gender/orientaion terms. We should fix that.
- greglindahl 9y agoYeah, calling comments (or commenters) stupid is always welcome. Oh, wait, no it's not; please look to your own issues.
- hateduser2 9y agoSeems to me like you’re focusing on the word stupid which is actually fair in this context
- 9y ago
- randyrand 9y agoAssuming that the "offender" was talking about race and gender is so ironically racist and sexist. Makes me chuckle.
- icebraining 9y agoHow is it racist and sexist?
- andrepd 9y agoI think a good-faith reading of the parent commentary is that he was talking about the mannerisms and language and overall appearance of the person, not that he was white-skinned and a man. Immediately assuming he was saying he looks like an engineer because he isn't a women, or dark-skinned, is ironically a racist and sexist assumption.
- icebraining 9y agoNo, recognizing the existence of sexist and racist stereotypes is not the same as being sexist and racist. Even if one incorrectly assumes that someone holds such stereotypical views.
- eatmywokeballs 9y agoyeah, you tell yourself that. it’s totally fair to be woke about shitty bigotry because being a constant pain in the ass for no reason will definitely “fix” anything at all ever
- Dylan16807 9y agoIf you're incorrect enough at spotting stereotypes, and then flatly assert their use, well... There's now a stereotype being applied, and you're the one that did it. Even if you're arguing against it, that's not a positive thing to do.
- 9y ago