3 ms·

It depends on how do you define "permission". "Of course, you can join our club, it's free to join for everyone. Oh, small detail, the entry ticket is 100K$"

by viach 9y ago

shawabawa3 9y ago
A few problems with that analogy: 1) Mining isn't required to use the network 2) You don't have to pay any specific "club" to start mining. You need to be able to generate hashes efficiently, how you do that is up to you 3) It's still unrelated to what "permissionless" means in this case "Permissionless Blockchains allow anyone to participate. The transactions are validated and processed by votes / consensus. A vote does not depend on having a prior identity of any kind within the ledger and no pre-existing trust is assumed between participating nodes."
- viach 9y ago
  > 1) Mining isn't required to use the network I define participate as "be able to mine and use the network". You can't do both for free anymore with Bitcoin. > 2) You don't have to pay any specific "club" to start mining. You need to be able to generate hashes efficiently, how you do that is up to you Sorry, but it sounds like "In order to learn how to fly you just have to flap your hands more efficiently, how you do that is up to you" > 3) It's still unrelated to what "permissionless" means in this case From your definition "Permissionless Blockchains allow anyone to participate". Okay, you can sort of participate in tsunami by jumping in the sea, but do you really do?
  - shawabawa3 9y ago
    > You can't do both for free anymore with Bitcoin You never could. Mining has always had a cost and by design the cost increases to match the block rewards I'm bored of this argument. You're arguing against a different definition to me and I'm not sure what your point is - that mining is expensive?
    - viach 9y ago
      I'm saying that "permission-less", in my view, should be defined as "an average person can use network and participate in mining", which is not the case with Bitcoin anymore.
      - lagadu 9y ago
        The "average person" doesn't have access to a computer or stable internet connectivity, if we're arguing for what the average person should be able to do/access we have a lot more basic problems to discuss before we get to decentralised virtual networks. That aside, technically anyone with a computing device can contribute to most networks.
fiatjaf 9y ago
Compare your example with: "You can't join our club."
- viach 9y ago
  Realistically, there are no clubs you can't join if have enough money

It depends on how do you define "permission". "Of course, you can join our club, it's free to join for everyone. Oh, small detail, the entry ticket is 100K$"

by viach 9y ago

It depends on how do you define "permission". "Of course, you can join our club, it's free to join for everyone. Oh, small detail, the entry ticket is 100K$"

shawabawa3 9y ago

A few problems with that analogy: 1) Mining isn't required to use the network 2) You don't have to pay any specific "club" to start mining. You need to be able to generate hashes efficiently, how you do that is up to you 3) It's still unrelated to what "permissionless" means in this case "Permissionless Blockchains allow anyone to participate. The transactions are validated and processed by votes / consensus. A vote does not depend on having a prior identity of any kind within the ledger and no pre-existing trust is assumed between participating nodes."

viach 9y ago
> 1) Mining isn't required to use the network I define participate as "be able to mine and use the network". You can't do both for free anymore with Bitcoin. > 2) You don't have to pay any specific "club" to start mining. You need to be able to generate hashes efficiently, how you do that is up to you Sorry, but it sounds like "In order to learn how to fly you just have to flap your hands more efficiently, how you do that is up to you" > 3) It's still unrelated to what "permissionless" means in this case From your definition "Permissionless Blockchains allow anyone to participate". Okay, you can sort of participate in tsunami by jumping in the sea, but do you really do?
- shawabawa3 9y ago
  > You can't do both for free anymore with Bitcoin You never could. Mining has always had a cost and by design the cost increases to match the block rewards I'm bored of this argument. You're arguing against a different definition to me and I'm not sure what your point is - that mining is expensive?
  - viach 9y ago
    I'm saying that "permission-less", in my view, should be defined as "an average person can use network and participate in mining", which is not the case with Bitcoin anymore.
    - lagadu 9y ago
      The "average person" doesn't have access to a computer or stable internet connectivity, if we're arguing for what the average person should be able to do/access we have a lot more basic problems to discuss before we get to decentralised virtual networks. That aside, technically anyone with a computing device can contribute to most networks.

fiatjaf 9y ago

Compare your example with: "You can't join our club."

viach 9y ago
Realistically, there are no clubs you can't join if have enough money