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Some of the harshest criticisms of Apple have been coming from diehard fans in Apple's market niche, such as Marco Arment. See: the Touch Bar, the keyboards: ht

Some of the harshest criticisms of Apple have been coming from diehard fans in Apple's market niche, such as Marco Arment. See: the Touch Bar, the keyboards: https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro > They are clearly doing something right. Mac sales are down 5%.

CleanSlate_III 9y ago
I agree, they're in a bit of a drought with respect to what their core consumers wants. I'm still using my 2010 15" MPB (i5 duo core). When I was browsing for a computer at the time it was a product I could see myself using for a decade. I hope that turns out to be true--it works great for what I need to do. Their recent updates have made me shrug and think, "meh, I can wait." If I'm going to shell out $2k+ for a new computer it better be damn near perfect.
glhaynes 9y ago
"Apple outperformed nearly every PC maker in 2017 as Mac sales remain steady" (The MBP redesign that's been so controversial was introduced mid-2016.) http://bgr.com/2018/01/14/mac-sales-2017-marketshare-pc-decline/ http://bgr.com/2018/01/14/mac-sales-2017-marketshare-pc-decl... Which isn't to say that the Mac business is as good as it could be—surely it isn't, and they have several models they need to address with updates. I don't really like the Touch Bar. But the Mac is doing fine.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  You just quoted an article of IDC predictions. Apple released its actual results on Thursday: Mac sales and revenue were both down 5% from last year. Mac sales down ~200,000 units. Q1-2018 numbers, reported 02 Feb 18: https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple/apple-financial-results-3581769/ https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple/apple-financial-result...
  - glhaynes 9y ago
    I was just trying to give some context beyond a single quarter. The highly-criticized devices have been out for a long time and have been good sellers. They've clearly got some work to do overall, though. I just don't think the Mac is in some historically-unique bad spot (not saying you said that), which one would surely think if they just went by blog posts.
  - ntsplnkv2 9y ago
    Can you compare that to other PC manufacturers? Otherwise it's a meaningless number-we know desktop sales, esp at the super high end, are down overall.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - sib 9y ago
    It's important to note that Apple had 13 weeks in the quarter that they just reported on, while, in the year-before quarter, they had 14 weeks. This is a difference of just over 7%. That means that Apple sold more Macs per day (and generated more revenue per day) this year than in the year-ago quarter.
    - rzzzt 9y ago
      I was puzzled by your comment, then did some searching: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/06/_14_week_quarters_financial_markets_get_confused.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/06/_14_week_quar...
scarface74 9y ago
This isn't about the MacBook Pro. Marco bought a 10 core iMac Pro and raves about it on both ATP and Under the Radar.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  Plenty of Apple diehards have complaints about the iMac Pro, and Apple's market share has not 'continued to grow' as the original poster claimed. It's hovered between 3-8% of the PC market for many years.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    So where are these "plenty of Mac die hards"? All of the reviews I've seen from the well known Apple bloggers and podcasters have been quite positive about it. It's not like any of them hold back criticizing Apple or Macs in general.
  - oceanswave 9y ago
    IDC and Gartner reported in Jan of marginal increase in market share, perhaps this is what the OP was referring to.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    That's a single company, having a 3-8% of a huge market with hundreds of players and built-it-yourself options. And that 3-8% market is an 70-90% of the high end expensive market, and commands 90% of the profits -- more profits than the next 3-4 players combined.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
rorykoehler 9y ago
The touchbar is why I decided to buy a maxed out 4 year old mbp instead of a new one to replace my 7 year old mbp.
pentae 9y ago
The worst part about this, is Apple will throw their hands up in the air and say "See? The PC Business is dying. We need to double down on making Macbooks more like iPads and focus on the iPhone business" Rather than realising it's because their new Macbook computer lineup is a burning dumpster fire that is almost universally reviled.
- sethherr 9y ago
  This. Diehard fan - at least previously, but times are a changing. Let alone the OS feeling less polished, the removal of time remaining on battery and other user hostile changes, the touch bar being poorly thought out net loss (e.g. the fact that you can’t adjust the brightness so in low light typing, it messes with your eyes), I’ve had to warranty 3 MacBook pros in the past year. I’d never had to warranty an apple product before. I don’t want another iPad or iPhone. I want a laptop that just works and I’m willing to pay for it. Please somebody deliver that, since apple isn’t chasing it anymore.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  You need to get out if your bubble. The only complaint I’ve geard from literally hundreds of actual users about the new MBPs is they don’t like the shallow key travel on the new keyboards. I do, but I’ve always preferred less travel. Outside of the moaning online bubble (like HN) the MBP is a raging success.
  - pentae 9y ago
    May I ask what kind of work you do where you're meeting hundreds of actual MBP users? I am part of a big digital nomad community and the new MBP has received tons of criticism, and I believe rightfully so.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Well, I'm part of the "digital nomad community" as well, and don't have many complaints, nor have heard tens of other people I know with one complaining, except for: the lack of convenience with the reduced port types.
rimliu 9y ago
How about non-Mac sales?
gaius 9y ago
Some of the harshest criticisms of Apple have been coming from diehard fans in Apple's market niche My first Mac was an LC475 upgraded with a real '040 to run MATLAB, back in oh, '94 I think. Also had a second-hand SE30 to run Word 5.1 (still the best version). Next up was a Power Mac 7600 when I needed more grunt to run FORTRAN code. Amazing machine, the price/performance was incredible. It was faster than a DEC Alpha 3000 at a fraction of the price! A few more both desktop and laptop between then and now. So I think I count as a long-term Mac user and loyal customer. My current machines are a 2008 MBP and a 2014 Mac Mini. Apple simply haven't given me any compelling reason to upgrade, in fact have pushed me to offload my compute needs to Azure. Now that I have made that leap, I'm actually not particularly interested in a real Mac Pro anymore, I just don't need it. I can't be alone, and this will bite Apple in the ass at some point. Who's buying the current MBP then? Not professional users, just people looking to flash the brand. Which is fine, but the fashion crowd is fickle. Apple has chosen to court them rather than 20+ year customers. And that's OK too, it's their business to run as they see fit. But a third thing that is fine is for people to post their opinions of it...
- biztos 9y ago
  "Flash the brand?" Really? I bought an MBP last year, because I needed a new computer and I still think the Macs are the best for my needs, in both software and hardware. And I am most definitely a professional user. Do I wish it had a few more ports and a quieter keyboard? Yes! Did that ever seriously threaten my purchase? No! I don't think anybody who wants to just show off the logo is going to buy an MBP over a straight MB, which is lighter and (IMO) better looking. But is that even "a thing" with computers in 2018?
  - gaius 9y ago
    "Flash the brand?" Really? I don't know where you are but in the UK there is a TV ad suggesting a MBP is the ideal machine for parent to buy a first-year undergrad. The prioritization of thinness above everything else - when there is already the Macbook Air for that market segment - is a further example. I'll buy a brand new MBP as soon as there is a compelling reason to replace my 10 year old one. That just hasn't happened yet.
lindig 9y ago
> Mac sales are down 5%. Not true. Apple sold 5.112M Macs units in 13 weeks recently and 5.374M Macs in 14 weeks a year ago. That is 0.393M/week recently vs. 0.384M/week a year ago. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
oceanswave 9y ago
Latest earnings report didn’t include iMac Pro Sales.
coldtea 9y ago
Which means nothing much -- 5% is peanuts, and the previous quarter was a record one. Besides, without checking how did the overall industry go, it can't tell much.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
> Mac sales are down 5%. Mac sales are down 5% in Q1 2018, after being up 25% in Q4 2017. Its hardly a convinceable narrative that market share is steadily decreasing, because it isn't (incidentally, Apple moved up the ranks to #4 PC maker because the whole PC market took a dive).

CleanSlate_III 9y ago

I agree, they're in a bit of a drought with respect to what their core consumers wants. I'm still using my 2010 15" MPB (i5 duo core). When I was browsing for a computer at the time it was a product I could see myself using for a decade. I hope that turns out to be true--it works great for what I need to do. Their recent updates have made me shrug and think, "meh, I can wait." If I'm going to shell out $2k+ for a new computer it better be damn near perfect.

glhaynes 9y ago

"Apple outperformed nearly every PC maker in 2017 as Mac sales remain steady" (The MBP redesign that's been so controversial was introduced mid-2016.) http://bgr.com/2018/01/14/mac-sales-2017-marketshare-pc-decline/ http://bgr.com/2018/01/14/mac-sales-2017-marketshare-pc-decl... Which isn't to say that the Mac business is as good as it could be—surely it isn't, and they have several models they need to address with updates. I don't really like the Touch Bar. But the Mac is doing fine.

ghostcluster 9y ago
You just quoted an article of IDC predictions. Apple released its actual results on Thursday: Mac sales and revenue were both down 5% from last year. Mac sales down ~200,000 units. Q1-2018 numbers, reported 02 Feb 18: https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple/apple-financial-results-3581769/ https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/apple/apple-financial-result...
- glhaynes 9y ago
  I was just trying to give some context beyond a single quarter. The highly-criticized devices have been out for a long time and have been good sellers. They've clearly got some work to do overall, though. I just don't think the Mac is in some historically-unique bad spot (not saying you said that), which one would surely think if they just went by blog posts.
- ntsplnkv2 9y ago
  Can you compare that to other PC manufacturers? Otherwise it's a meaningless number-we know desktop sales, esp at the super high end, are down overall.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sib 9y ago
  It's important to note that Apple had 13 weeks in the quarter that they just reported on, while, in the year-before quarter, they had 14 weeks. This is a difference of just over 7%. That means that Apple sold more Macs per day (and generated more revenue per day) this year than in the year-ago quarter.
  - rzzzt 9y ago
    I was puzzled by your comment, then did some searching: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/06/_14_week_quarters_financial_markets_get_confused.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/06/_14_week_quar...

scarface74 9y ago

This isn't about the MacBook Pro. Marco bought a 10 core iMac Pro and raves about it on both ATP and Under the Radar.

ghostcluster 9y ago
Plenty of Apple diehards have complaints about the iMac Pro, and Apple's market share has not 'continued to grow' as the original poster claimed. It's hovered between 3-8% of the PC market for many years.
- scarface74 9y ago
  So where are these "plenty of Mac die hards"? All of the reviews I've seen from the well known Apple bloggers and podcasters have been quite positive about it. It's not like any of them hold back criticizing Apple or Macs in general.
- oceanswave 9y ago
  IDC and Gartner reported in Jan of marginal increase in market share, perhaps this is what the OP was referring to.
- coldtea 9y ago
  That's a single company, having a 3-8% of a huge market with hundreds of players and built-it-yourself options. And that 3-8% market is an 70-90% of the high end expensive market, and commands 90% of the profits -- more profits than the next 3-4 players combined.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

rorykoehler 9y ago

The touchbar is why I decided to buy a maxed out 4 year old mbp instead of a new one to replace my 7 year old mbp.

pentae 9y ago

The worst part about this, is Apple will throw their hands up in the air and say "See? The PC Business is dying. We need to double down on making Macbooks more like iPads and focus on the iPhone business" Rather than realising it's because their new Macbook computer lineup is a burning dumpster fire that is almost universally reviled.

sethherr 9y ago
This. Diehard fan - at least previously, but times are a changing. Let alone the OS feeling less polished, the removal of time remaining on battery and other user hostile changes, the touch bar being poorly thought out net loss (e.g. the fact that you can’t adjust the brightness so in low light typing, it messes with your eyes), I’ve had to warranty 3 MacBook pros in the past year. I’d never had to warranty an apple product before. I don’t want another iPad or iPhone. I want a laptop that just works and I’m willing to pay for it. Please somebody deliver that, since apple isn’t chasing it anymore.
abritinthebay 9y ago
You need to get out if your bubble. The only complaint I’ve geard from literally hundreds of actual users about the new MBPs is they don’t like the shallow key travel on the new keyboards. I do, but I’ve always preferred less travel. Outside of the moaning online bubble (like HN) the MBP is a raging success.
- pentae 9y ago
  May I ask what kind of work you do where you're meeting hundreds of actual MBP users? I am part of a big digital nomad community and the new MBP has received tons of criticism, and I believe rightfully so.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Well, I'm part of the "digital nomad community" as well, and don't have many complaints, nor have heard tens of other people I know with one complaining, except for: the lack of convenience with the reduced port types.

rimliu 9y ago

How about non-Mac sales?

gaius 9y ago

Some of the harshest criticisms of Apple have been coming from diehard fans in Apple's market niche My first Mac was an LC475 upgraded with a real '040 to run MATLAB, back in oh, '94 I think. Also had a second-hand SE30 to run Word 5.1 (still the best version). Next up was a Power Mac 7600 when I needed more grunt to run FORTRAN code. Amazing machine, the price/performance was incredible. It was faster than a DEC Alpha 3000 at a fraction of the price! A few more both desktop and laptop between then and now. So I think I count as a long-term Mac user and loyal customer. My current machines are a 2008 MBP and a 2014 Mac Mini. Apple simply haven't given me any compelling reason to upgrade, in fact have pushed me to offload my compute needs to Azure. Now that I have made that leap, I'm actually not particularly interested in a real Mac Pro anymore, I just don't need it. I can't be alone, and this will bite Apple in the ass at some point. Who's buying the current MBP then? Not professional users, just people looking to flash the brand. Which is fine, but the fashion crowd is fickle. Apple has chosen to court them rather than 20+ year customers. And that's OK too, it's their business to run as they see fit. But a third thing that is fine is for people to post their opinions of it...

biztos 9y ago
"Flash the brand?" Really? I bought an MBP last year, because I needed a new computer and I still think the Macs are the best for my needs, in both software and hardware. And I am most definitely a professional user. Do I wish it had a few more ports and a quieter keyboard? Yes! Did that ever seriously threaten my purchase? No! I don't think anybody who wants to just show off the logo is going to buy an MBP over a straight MB, which is lighter and (IMO) better looking. But is that even "a thing" with computers in 2018?
- gaius 9y ago
  "Flash the brand?" Really? I don't know where you are but in the UK there is a TV ad suggesting a MBP is the ideal machine for parent to buy a first-year undergrad. The prioritization of thinness above everything else - when there is already the Macbook Air for that market segment - is a further example. I'll buy a brand new MBP as soon as there is a compelling reason to replace my 10 year old one. That just hasn't happened yet.

lindig 9y ago

> Mac sales are down 5%. Not true. Apple sold 5.112M Macs units in 13 weeks recently and 5.374M Macs in 14 weeks a year ago. That is 0.393M/week recently vs. 0.384M/week a year ago. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

oceanswave 9y ago

Latest earnings report didn’t include iMac Pro Sales.

coldtea 9y ago

Which means nothing much -- 5% is peanuts, and the previous quarter was a record one. Besides, without checking how did the overall industry go, it can't tell much.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

> Mac sales are down 5%. Mac sales are down 5% in Q1 2018, after being up 25% in Q4 2017. Its hardly a convinceable narrative that market share is steadily decreasing, because it isn't (incidentally, Apple moved up the ranks to #4 PC maker because the whole PC market took a dive).