4 ms·

As somebody who read that famous first email and shared it around her lab: We were all tremendously excited, and spent days discussing it. This is the same thi

As somebody who read that famous first email and shared it around her lab: We were all tremendously excited, and spent days discussing it. This is the same thing - it's exciting. It's trying to do things many of us have thought of, but never worked on. It's new technology. It's something that, in our hearts, we want to succeed just because the alternatives are all grungy and dusty and carry the compatibility fixes of generations. Of course, if you don't really care about OS technology, or look at it from a consumer perspective, yeah, it's not giving you anything. But for engineers who care about OSs? This is amazing and invigorating.

willtim 9y ago
It's all written in C++, so from a security and reliability perspective, I'm sketical it's going to offer much improvement over Linux. I don't see any evidence yet of "new technology". I'm happy to be proven wrong.
- mehrdadn 9y ago
  > It's all written in C++, so from a security and reliability perspective, I'm sketical it's going to offer much improvement over Linux. Are you an expert in C? or in C++?
  - willtim 9y ago
    It's not news to anyone that C/C++ puts the burden of security and safety onto the programmer. And it's getting harder all the time, see for example Spectre mitigation. C was designed alongside Unix in the 70's, a very different era. It is time for a next generation OS, but it needs to be built using next generation tooling.
    - mehrdadn 9y ago
      > It is not news to anyone that C/C++ puts the burden of security and safety onto the programmer. Okay, so neither. Please consider reading these links. [1] [2] [1] http://qr.ae/TbSNZ8 http://qr.ae/TbSNZ8 [2] http://www.lb-stuff.com/cc http://www.lb-stuff.com/cc
      - willtim 9y ago
        I have programmed C and C++ professionally on and off for over two decades, but I don't think that is relevant here. C++ shares many of the same security and safety problems as C, that is why they are often lumped together.
- fooker 9y ago
  I can use your logic to prove that there is no evidence of new technology in the Falcon 9 rocket. After all, it is developed with very similar tools compared to every other rocket in existence.
  - willtim 9y ago
    Assuming your analogy has merit, I doubt very much this is true. Computer modelling, for example, has improved significantly over the years. However, it is true that many high profile failures in aerospace have been due to software errors, so I would say that software tooling is certainly one area that they could also benefit from.
    - fooker 9y ago
      In line with your reasoning, software development methodology has significantly improved over the years. One does not write C++ in 2018 as they would have written C in 1980.
      - willtim 9y ago
        Best practice has changed, but C++ does not enforce it. Did Samsung follow best practices with Tizen? Languages like Rust and Haskell are an attempt to put such best practice into the language tooling.
        fooker 9y ago
        >Languages like Rust and Haskell are an attempt to put such best practice into the language tooling. Best practice often varies between projects and changes rather often, ..say.. in a matter of a few years. Most of what Haskell and Rust offer are a library away (yes, even compile time checks) for C++, but not vice versa. There is a reason new languages with baked in 'opinion' come and go.
        willtim 9y ago
        You cannot make C++ secure and safe with a library.
- solarkraft 9y ago
  Of course the programming language defines the architecture ...
  - willtim 9y ago
    Programming languages do influence how a problem is solved and this often affects architecture. This is especially true with respect to concurrency. However my main problem with C++ is security, not want architectures it inspires.
  - peoplewindow 9y ago
    The most radical OS architectures are all based on integration of compiler and language techniques - see Singularity or JNode for examples.
jrs95 9y ago
On the one hand I'm excited, but I ultimately hope this fails (commercially, anyways) because I don't think the world needs more devices loaded up with Google's spyware.
fauigerzigerk 9y ago
I do share the excitement, but that's exactly why I found this video rather uninspiring. It doesn't say a thing about how Fuchsia is new or interesting. It just goes through a bunch of extremely unfinished screens in consumer product review style. Nothing much to see really. I found it interesting to browse some of the source code to get an idea of the roles that different language runtimes seem to play. But much more than that I would be interested in the driver model, the graphics stack, the IPC facilities and how it all differs from Linux/Android.

willtim 9y ago

It's all written in C++, so from a security and reliability perspective, I'm sketical it's going to offer much improvement over Linux. I don't see any evidence yet of "new technology". I'm happy to be proven wrong.

mehrdadn 9y ago
> It's all written in C++, so from a security and reliability perspective, I'm sketical it's going to offer much improvement over Linux. Are you an expert in C? or in C++?
- willtim 9y ago
  It's not news to anyone that C/C++ puts the burden of security and safety onto the programmer. And it's getting harder all the time, see for example Spectre mitigation. C was designed alongside Unix in the 70's, a very different era. It is time for a next generation OS, but it needs to be built using next generation tooling.
  - mehrdadn 9y ago
    > It is not news to anyone that C/C++ puts the burden of security and safety onto the programmer. Okay, so neither. Please consider reading these links. [1] [2] [1] http://qr.ae/TbSNZ8 http://qr.ae/TbSNZ8 [2] http://www.lb-stuff.com/cc http://www.lb-stuff.com/cc
    - willtim 9y ago
      I have programmed C and C++ professionally on and off for over two decades, but I don't think that is relevant here. C++ shares many of the same security and safety problems as C, that is why they are often lumped together.
fooker 9y ago
I can use your logic to prove that there is no evidence of new technology in the Falcon 9 rocket. After all, it is developed with very similar tools compared to every other rocket in existence.
- willtim 9y ago
  Assuming your analogy has merit, I doubt very much this is true. Computer modelling, for example, has improved significantly over the years. However, it is true that many high profile failures in aerospace have been due to software errors, so I would say that software tooling is certainly one area that they could also benefit from.
  - fooker 9y ago
    In line with your reasoning, software development methodology has significantly improved over the years. One does not write C++ in 2018 as they would have written C in 1980.
    - willtim 9y ago
      Best practice has changed, but C++ does not enforce it. Did Samsung follow best practices with Tizen? Languages like Rust and Haskell are an attempt to put such best practice into the language tooling.
      - fooker 9y ago
        >Languages like Rust and Haskell are an attempt to put such best practice into the language tooling. Best practice often varies between projects and changes rather often, ..say.. in a matter of a few years. Most of what Haskell and Rust offer are a library away (yes, even compile time checks) for C++, but not vice versa. There is a reason new languages with baked in 'opinion' come and go.
        willtim 9y ago
        You cannot make C++ secure and safe with a library.
solarkraft 9y ago
Of course the programming language defines the architecture ...
- willtim 9y ago
  Programming languages do influence how a problem is solved and this often affects architecture. This is especially true with respect to concurrency. However my main problem with C++ is security, not want architectures it inspires.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  The most radical OS architectures are all based on integration of compiler and language techniques - see Singularity or JNode for examples.

jrs95 9y ago

On the one hand I'm excited, but I ultimately hope this fails (commercially, anyways) because I don't think the world needs more devices loaded up with Google's spyware.

fauigerzigerk 9y ago

I do share the excitement, but that's exactly why I found this video rather uninspiring. It doesn't say a thing about how Fuchsia is new or interesting. It just goes through a bunch of extremely unfinished screens in consumer product review style. Nothing much to see really. I found it interesting to browse some of the source code to get an idea of the roles that different language runtimes seem to play. But much more than that I would be interested in the driver model, the graphics stack, the IPC facilities and how it all differs from Linux/Android.