14 ms·

Google’s Fuchsia OS on the Pixelbook

166 points by dumindunuwan 9y ago

Jesus_Jones 9y ago
There's no point to these early Fuschia review attempts. I don't see how it demonstrates anything. It's like looking at the famous first email from Linus Torvald and figuring out what the os would be in the end. So it boots, it has windows, but not apps, and prints some things to the screen. It tells us nothing about real intentions, future capabilities, etc.
- innagadadavida 9y ago
  I'm hoping it will be noticed by Linus and other Linux developers and help them address some of the shortcomings that Fuchsia aims to fix. It seems like this is how Google is exerting pressure on Linux to get what it wants...
  - solarkraft 9y ago
    Maybe - but it doesn't seem to me like the Linux community as a whole cares much about what Google wants. And they don't have to: Google has their own capabilities to edit the kernel the way they want (they have done it before) or make their whole own kernel. I don't think they're trying to push Linux anywhere. Maybe they're trying to win over users from Linux, giving them some power in the software market & free contributions.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  Yeah, you can't "review" something that isn't even close to finished. Windows Phone was originally supposed to eschew apps for some sort of focus on views, I forget what they called it. Now Windows 10 Mobile is more or less just Windows 10, with apps. I won't mind if someone finally finds a new model and makes it not suck, but when you're early in the product design phase is when you try crazy ideas to see if they pan out, the final product ends up looking more normal.
  - nxc18 9y ago
    Windows Phone 7 Series had the concept of hubs (e.g. People Hub). It was an innovative model, and having so much functionality built in eased the pain of missing or poor quality native apps for things like facebook/Twitter. It was helpful in an “information at your fingertips” sort of way, where everything was organized without solos between apps/platforms. Windows Phone 8.1 was the beginning of the end for hubs, with the OS feeling much more like iOS/Android, with winmo 10 basically killing it altogether. Curiously much of the hub functionality seems to be coming back to Windows proper. For example, see ‘People’ integration in the taskbar that shipped with Windows 10.
- empath75 9y ago
  It's neat to see the progress even if you don't know where it's going. I wouldn't call it a 'review', though.
- zitterbewegung 9y ago
  Its sort of a "review" of an early preview. I think it demonstrates a lot especially what Fuchsia is and what it is capable of. The other point would be that Google gets free advertisements of their new OS.
  - solarkraft 9y ago
    I don't think they really care about anyone knowing about it right now as a company, so the decision to open-source it right away confuses me a bit. Maybe it's a subtle signal of their plans/capabilities towards competitors/dart devs?
- goalieca 9y ago
  So if the title was "Google Fuchsia early preview" then that would be fine.
- eddieh 9y ago
  That seems rather pedantic. At this point I'm curious enough to watch these "reviews", but I don't care enough to try it myself. I happy reviewers are showing off the work, whatever they call it, review, sneak peak, preview.
- groby_b 9y ago
  As somebody who read that famous first email and shared it around her lab: We were all tremendously excited, and spent days discussing it. This is the same thing - it's exciting. It's trying to do things many of us have thought of, but never worked on. It's new technology. It's something that, in our hearts, we want to succeed just because the alternatives are all grungy and dusty and carry the compatibility fixes of generations. Of course, if you don't really care about OS technology, or look at it from a consumer perspective, yeah, it's not giving you anything. But for engineers who care about OSs? This is amazing and invigorating.
  - willtim 9y ago
    It's all written in C++, so from a security and reliability perspective, I'm sketical it's going to offer much improvement over Linux. I don't see any evidence yet of "new technology". I'm happy to be proven wrong.
    - mehrdadn 9y ago
      > It's all written in C++, so from a security and reliability perspective, I'm sketical it's going to offer much improvement over Linux. Are you an expert in C? or in C++?
      - willtim 9y ago
        It's not news to anyone that C/C++ puts the burden of security and safety onto the programmer. And it's getting harder all the time, see for example Spectre mitigation. C was designed alongside Unix in the 70's, a very different era. It is time for a next generation OS, but it needs to be built using next generation tooling.
        mehrdadn 9y ago
        > It is not news to anyone that C/C++ puts the burden of security and safety onto the programmer. Okay, so neither. Please consider reading these links. [1] [2] [1] http://qr.ae/TbSNZ8 http://qr.ae/TbSNZ8 [2] http://www.lb-stuff.com/cc http://www.lb-stuff.com/cc
- bitmapbrother 9y ago
  I disagree. It allows people that are interested in Fuchsia, but don't have the skills, time or hardware to build it, an opportunity to visually follow its progression.
- mempko 9y ago
  There are already important signals here. 1. Your login is tied to your google account. Want to use the computer in any real capacity? Google account. 2. They think bringing back multi tasking from the 90s is important. 3. People will want to control their computer views. 4. They are making a new kernel. 5. They believe in the capabilities based security model. 6. They believe in micro kernels. 7. They don't have any NEW ideas yet (otherwise we would see them in early stages). Maybe they will come up with something, it's research right?
  - retromario 9y ago
    I feel like just executing an old idea correctly is as worthwhile as coming up with something new.
    - solarkraft 9y ago
      It seems that the most useful OS/programming concepts have already been thought of, but all implementations are lacking in some ways, so I tend to agree.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  I don't agree. How is this not interesting? 1. This is an open development effort, that's interesting. 2. It's moving very quick. 3. the code is really interesting.
  - freddref 9y ago
    Open and quick is nice.. I guess. How is the code interesting? What features of this OS differentiate it from others?
    - scarmig 9y ago
      If nothing else, its capability-based security model is a giant leap forward.
drewvolpe 9y ago
The code is available here: https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/ https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/ Key components: ## Zircon Zircon is the operating system's foundation: it mediates hardware access, implements essential software abstractions over shared resources, and provides a platform for low-level software development. For example, Zircon contains the kernel, device manager, most core and first-party device drivers, and low-level system libraries, such as libc and launchpad. Zircon also defines the Fuchsia IDL (FIDL), which is the protocol spoken between processes in the system, as well as backends for C and C++. The backends for other languages will be added by other layers. ## Garnet Garnet provides device-level system services for software installation, administration, communication with remote systems, and product deployment. For example, Garnet contains the network, media, and graphics services. Garnet also contains the package management and update system. ## Peridot Peridot presents a cohesive, customizable, multi-device user experience assembled from modules, stories, agents, entities, and other components. For example, Peridot contains the device, user, and story runners. Peridot also contains the ledger and resolver, as well as the context and suggestion engines. ## Topaz Topaz augments system functionality by implementing interfaces defined by underlying layers. Topaz contains four major categories of software: modules, agents, shells, and runtimes. For example, modules include the calendar, email, and terminal modules, shells include the base shell and the user shell, agents include the email and chat content providers, and runtimes include the Dart andFlutter runtimes.
- Santosh83 9y ago
  I like the naming even more than the architecture! :-)
  - frenchie4111 9y ago
    Which component are they going to name Steven?
    - carterschonwald 9y ago
      probably their package "universe" ;)
vxNsr 9y ago
I find it fascinating how polished the UI is even as it's missing core features.
- throwaway78234 9y ago
  Most "reinvent $thing" projects begin by reinventing the parts of the $thing that are fun to reinvent. The "core features" are no fun to reinvent
- tensafefrogs 9y ago
  The UI is made with Flutter, which can be used for Android & iOS apps today: https://flutter.io/ https://flutter.io/
  - vxNsr 9y ago
    Thanks, that's a cool tool I've begun playing with it and it seems to simplify a lot of the difficult parts of creating good looking UI on mobile.
gjm11 9y ago
This "review" is the video portion of this Ars Technica article: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/googles-fuchsia-os-on-the-pixelbook-it-works-it-actually-works/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/googles-fuchsia-os-o... which of course does not purport to be a review of Fuchsia.
- sctb 9y ago
  Thanks! We've updated the link from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhX6cANaJ6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhX6cANaJ6o.
Unkechaug 9y ago
What is this supposed to become, exactly? Google hasn't said much about it and speculators are making big claims like how this will replace ChromeOS and Android. I don't see that happening any time soon considering how deeply entrenched both OSes are, but Google's dedication mixed with the lack of comments makes me think again.
- thedoops 9y ago
  Probably something more architecturally sound for future platforms in augmented and virtual reality among other things. One of the biggest issues with Android is managing permissions for apps to system resources. Proper sandboxing of 3rd party code is a big deal, especially if the next generation experiences are so much more immersive.
- jsgo 9y ago
  well, based on the demo there, I'd almost only want it is a Google Assistant version of Amazon's Show where it could be an assistant for various users (and guests). Outside of that, I'm not sure. Obviously, it has to be more with all of the aspects of it, but in its current state, that's the only thing I can envision.
- SllX 9y ago
  Depending on the future direction they take this, it might end up replacing OpenBSD for me. Mac OS X and OpenBSD are my daily drivers, but at their core, they are BSDs, and less and less I find myself using the NeXTSTEP portion of Mac OS X and more and more time in BSD-land, which is leading me to move more and more of my overall computer time to OpenBSD which is a great operating system but is still largely a continuation of the UNIX/POSIX/BSD model which I appreciate like fine wine but do not love. If Fuschia ends up being the answer to the question of what would happen if we built a new operating system from scratch today, taking the best lessons we were able to learn in the past 50 years, then I might be using it as my daily driver in 10 years. Or maybe not. Nobody can really say what it will be right now.
  - happyguy43 9y ago
    Don’t hold your breath. The zircon API isn’t innovative in any modern sense. Additionally it’s bloated and not clean like L4. It’s just in house IP for Google. (HN won’t let me directly reply to the comment below so here it is: Nothing in zircon doesn’t already exist on Linux or any other modern kernel. Additionally it has bloat, like 3 distinct IPC mechanisms. Even further, if it ends up being any technical person’s main driving OS it will surely sport a POSIX API and at that point it’s just another implementation of POSIX with similar a security model.)
mtgx 9y ago
Short review: Another OS written in C/C++ that will have a million and one bugs over the next 3 decades.
- trav4225 9y ago
  I'd say the same thing without narrowing the statement to C/C++. ;-)
- liuw 9y ago
  Why focus on the language and the possibility of a million and one bugs but not the architecture and design choices?
  - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
    Because it's an easy indicator of someone who has no idea what they're doing in OS development. Choosing the wrong tool for the job is meaningful. Have you ever looked through Chromium's C++ codebase? The same people are working on this and it tells us that they haven't learned their lesson (or they want to tightly integrate Chrome with Fuschia, which is also a foreboding sign). Edit: I should clarify that I think C is the only rational choice and that Rust is ill suited to osdev as well. I'm only talking about C++ here.
    - happyguy43 9y ago
      Nah, writing a kernel in modern C++ or Rust is pretty rad. Higher level abstractions can be designed to avoid bugs (As evidenced by the explosion of macros in the Linux code base). Check out L4Ka::Pistachio https://github.com/l4ka/pistachio https://github.com/l4ka/pistachio
    - greenhouse_gas 9y ago
      I know you're a prolific commentator here, so if you don't mind me asking ... Which operating systems have you designed (or worked on) to say that writing a microkernel in C is a symptom that they don't know anything about OS development?
s2g 9y ago
I'm conflicted on this. I really do like the idea of a challenger to the linux monoculture (among devs)/the windows monoculture (among consumers), but I really hate the idea of google getting yet more power. If it was pretty much anyone else doing this.
- snvzz 9y ago
  >If it was pretty much anyone else doing this. Look at seL4, minix3, genode, helenos.
- forgot-my-pw 9y ago
  Like Android, this is OSS. Sure, Google runs the core development, but everyone will benefit from this eventually.
  - cat199 9y ago
    Control the API, control the platform. Control the platform, control the market around the platform. Sure it's 'open', but at the same time, heavily subject to the authority of the owners. See also the systemd/gnome impact to linux ecosystem.. posix in general keeps unices and unix likes (including linux here) more open than other systems since the API is less fluid / under the influence of a single group.. this phenomenon won't occur here.
    - jacksmith21006 9y ago
      Echo runs on Android. Amazon Fire runs on Android.
- happyguy43 9y ago
  How exactly is Google getting power here? The code is totally open. They just seem to be giving themselves more flexibility and potential to build better products. If anything, this will result in less power over the Linux kernel for Google. It seems like that’s something you’d appreciate. (My response to s2g’s reply below because HN is terrible for commenting: I see your point that they now unilaterally control how the kernel is engineered, but my counter argument is that I don’t think this meaningfully changes their control over the platform. They were already free to modify the Linux kernel at their whim. Having upstream control doesn’t make you emperor of derived applications. As a separate point, don’t you think it just results in less efficiency and worst products if google isn’t free to steer the project in the direction that makes the most sense for the application? It seems they can more easily make zircon for their use case, and I think that will result in cheaper and better phones.)
Toidiu 9y ago
Hi could someone compare fuchsia with redox, mozilla's operating system.
- mercurial 9y ago
  Redox is not "Mozilla's operating system" in any way or form. It is an immature OS whose primary contributor works at System 76. The only thing Mozilla-related about it is that it's written in Rust.
davesque 9y ago
Can someone summarize the technical tradeoffs they made in developing this OS vs. say Windows and Linux for example? Also, anything that is just plain better and represents recent innovations in OS design?

166 points by dumindunuwan 9y ago

There's no point to these early Fuschia review attempts. I don't see how it demonstrates anything. It's like looking at the famous first email from Linus Torvald and figuring out what the os would be in the end. So it boots, it has windows, but not apps, and prints some things to the screen. It tells us nothing about real intentions, future capabilities, etc.

innagadadavida 9y ago
I'm hoping it will be noticed by Linus and other Linux developers and help them address some of the shortcomings that Fuchsia aims to fix. It seems like this is how Google is exerting pressure on Linux to get what it wants...
- solarkraft 9y ago
  Maybe - but it doesn't seem to me like the Linux community as a whole cares much about what Google wants. And they don't have to: Google has their own capabilities to edit the kernel the way they want (they have done it before) or make their whole own kernel. I don't think they're trying to push Linux anywhere. Maybe they're trying to win over users from Linux, giving them some power in the software market & free contributions.
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
Yeah, you can't "review" something that isn't even close to finished. Windows Phone was originally supposed to eschew apps for some sort of focus on views, I forget what they called it. Now Windows 10 Mobile is more or less just Windows 10, with apps. I won't mind if someone finally finds a new model and makes it not suck, but when you're early in the product design phase is when you try crazy ideas to see if they pan out, the final product ends up looking more normal.
- nxc18 9y ago
  Windows Phone 7 Series had the concept of hubs (e.g. People Hub). It was an innovative model, and having so much functionality built in eased the pain of missing or poor quality native apps for things like facebook/Twitter. It was helpful in an “information at your fingertips” sort of way, where everything was organized without solos between apps/platforms. Windows Phone 8.1 was the beginning of the end for hubs, with the OS feeling much more like iOS/Android, with winmo 10 basically killing it altogether. Curiously much of the hub functionality seems to be coming back to Windows proper. For example, see ‘People’ integration in the taskbar that shipped with Windows 10.
empath75 9y ago
It's neat to see the progress even if you don't know where it's going. I wouldn't call it a 'review', though.
zitterbewegung 9y ago
Its sort of a "review" of an early preview. I think it demonstrates a lot especially what Fuchsia is and what it is capable of. The other point would be that Google gets free advertisements of their new OS.
- solarkraft 9y ago
  I don't think they really care about anyone knowing about it right now as a company, so the decision to open-source it right away confuses me a bit. Maybe it's a subtle signal of their plans/capabilities towards competitors/dart devs?
goalieca 9y ago
So if the title was "Google Fuchsia early preview" then that would be fine.
eddieh 9y ago
That seems rather pedantic. At this point I'm curious enough to watch these "reviews", but I don't care enough to try it myself. I happy reviewers are showing off the work, whatever they call it, review, sneak peak, preview.
groby_b 9y ago
As somebody who read that famous first email and shared it around her lab: We were all tremendously excited, and spent days discussing it. This is the same thing - it's exciting. It's trying to do things many of us have thought of, but never worked on. It's new technology. It's something that, in our hearts, we want to succeed just because the alternatives are all grungy and dusty and carry the compatibility fixes of generations. Of course, if you don't really care about OS technology, or look at it from a consumer perspective, yeah, it's not giving you anything. But for engineers who care about OSs? This is amazing and invigorating.
- willtim 9y ago
  It's all written in C++, so from a security and reliability perspective, I'm sketical it's going to offer much improvement over Linux. I don't see any evidence yet of "new technology". I'm happy to be proven wrong.
  - mehrdadn 9y ago
    > It's all written in C++, so from a security and reliability perspective, I'm sketical it's going to offer much improvement over Linux. Are you an expert in C? or in C++?
    - willtim 9y ago
      It's not news to anyone that C/C++ puts the burden of security and safety onto the programmer. And it's getting harder all the time, see for example Spectre mitigation. C was designed alongside Unix in the 70's, a very different era. It is time for a next generation OS, but it needs to be built using next generation tooling.
      - mehrdadn 9y ago
        > It is not news to anyone that C/C++ puts the burden of security and safety onto the programmer. Okay, so neither. Please consider reading these links. [1] [2] [1] http://qr.ae/TbSNZ8 http://qr.ae/TbSNZ8 [2] http://www.lb-stuff.com/cc http://www.lb-stuff.com/cc
bitmapbrother 9y ago
I disagree. It allows people that are interested in Fuchsia, but don't have the skills, time or hardware to build it, an opportunity to visually follow its progression.
mempko 9y ago
There are already important signals here. 1. Your login is tied to your google account. Want to use the computer in any real capacity? Google account. 2. They think bringing back multi tasking from the 90s is important. 3. People will want to control their computer views. 4. They are making a new kernel. 5. They believe in the capabilities based security model. 6. They believe in micro kernels. 7. They don't have any NEW ideas yet (otherwise we would see them in early stages). Maybe they will come up with something, it's research right?
- retromario 9y ago
  I feel like just executing an old idea correctly is as worthwhile as coming up with something new.
  - solarkraft 9y ago
    It seems that the most useful OS/programming concepts have already been thought of, but all implementations are lacking in some ways, so I tend to agree.
KirinDave 9y ago
I don't agree. How is this not interesting? 1. This is an open development effort, that's interesting. 2. It's moving very quick. 3. the code is really interesting.
- freddref 9y ago
  Open and quick is nice.. I guess. How is the code interesting? What features of this OS differentiate it from others?
  - scarmig 9y ago
    If nothing else, its capability-based security model is a giant leap forward.

drewvolpe 9y ago

The code is available here: https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/ https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/ Key components: ## Zircon Zircon is the operating system's foundation: it mediates hardware access, implements essential software abstractions over shared resources, and provides a platform for low-level software development. For example, Zircon contains the kernel, device manager, most core and first-party device drivers, and low-level system libraries, such as libc and launchpad. Zircon also defines the Fuchsia IDL (FIDL), which is the protocol spoken between processes in the system, as well as backends for C and C++. The backends for other languages will be added by other layers. ## Garnet Garnet provides device-level system services for software installation, administration, communication with remote systems, and product deployment. For example, Garnet contains the network, media, and graphics services. Garnet also contains the package management and update system. ## Peridot Peridot presents a cohesive, customizable, multi-device user experience assembled from modules, stories, agents, entities, and other components. For example, Peridot contains the device, user, and story runners. Peridot also contains the ledger and resolver, as well as the context and suggestion engines. ## Topaz Topaz augments system functionality by implementing interfaces defined by underlying layers. Topaz contains four major categories of software: modules, agents, shells, and runtimes. For example, modules include the calendar, email, and terminal modules, shells include the base shell and the user shell, agents include the email and chat content providers, and runtimes include the Dart andFlutter runtimes.

Santosh83 9y ago
I like the naming even more than the architecture! :-)
- frenchie4111 9y ago
  Which component are they going to name Steven?
  - carterschonwald 9y ago
    probably their package "universe" ;)

vxNsr 9y ago

I find it fascinating how polished the UI is even as it's missing core features.

throwaway78234 9y ago
Most "reinvent $thing" projects begin by reinventing the parts of the $thing that are fun to reinvent. The "core features" are no fun to reinvent
tensafefrogs 9y ago
The UI is made with Flutter, which can be used for Android & iOS apps today: https://flutter.io/ https://flutter.io/
- vxNsr 9y ago
  Thanks, that's a cool tool I've begun playing with it and it seems to simplify a lot of the difficult parts of creating good looking UI on mobile.

gjm11 9y ago

This "review" is the video portion of this Ars Technica article: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/googles-fuchsia-os-on-the-pixelbook-it-works-it-actually-works/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/googles-fuchsia-os-o... which of course does not purport to be a review of Fuchsia.

sctb 9y ago
Thanks! We've updated the link from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhX6cANaJ6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhX6cANaJ6o.

Unkechaug 9y ago

What is this supposed to become, exactly? Google hasn't said much about it and speculators are making big claims like how this will replace ChromeOS and Android. I don't see that happening any time soon considering how deeply entrenched both OSes are, but Google's dedication mixed with the lack of comments makes me think again.

thedoops 9y ago
Probably something more architecturally sound for future platforms in augmented and virtual reality among other things. One of the biggest issues with Android is managing permissions for apps to system resources. Proper sandboxing of 3rd party code is a big deal, especially if the next generation experiences are so much more immersive.
jsgo 9y ago
well, based on the demo there, I'd almost only want it is a Google Assistant version of Amazon's Show where it could be an assistant for various users (and guests). Outside of that, I'm not sure. Obviously, it has to be more with all of the aspects of it, but in its current state, that's the only thing I can envision.
SllX 9y ago
Depending on the future direction they take this, it might end up replacing OpenBSD for me. Mac OS X and OpenBSD are my daily drivers, but at their core, they are BSDs, and less and less I find myself using the NeXTSTEP portion of Mac OS X and more and more time in BSD-land, which is leading me to move more and more of my overall computer time to OpenBSD which is a great operating system but is still largely a continuation of the UNIX/POSIX/BSD model which I appreciate like fine wine but do not love. If Fuschia ends up being the answer to the question of what would happen if we built a new operating system from scratch today, taking the best lessons we were able to learn in the past 50 years, then I might be using it as my daily driver in 10 years. Or maybe not. Nobody can really say what it will be right now.
- happyguy43 9y ago
  Don’t hold your breath. The zircon API isn’t innovative in any modern sense. Additionally it’s bloated and not clean like L4. It’s just in house IP for Google. (HN won’t let me directly reply to the comment below so here it is: Nothing in zircon doesn’t already exist on Linux or any other modern kernel. Additionally it has bloat, like 3 distinct IPC mechanisms. Even further, if it ends up being any technical person’s main driving OS it will surely sport a POSIX API and at that point it’s just another implementation of POSIX with similar a security model.)

mtgx 9y ago

Short review: Another OS written in C/C++ that will have a million and one bugs over the next 3 decades.

trav4225 9y ago
I'd say the same thing without narrowing the statement to C/C++. ;-)
liuw 9y ago
Why focus on the language and the possibility of a million and one bugs but not the architecture and design choices?
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  Because it's an easy indicator of someone who has no idea what they're doing in OS development. Choosing the wrong tool for the job is meaningful. Have you ever looked through Chromium's C++ codebase? The same people are working on this and it tells us that they haven't learned their lesson (or they want to tightly integrate Chrome with Fuschia, which is also a foreboding sign). Edit: I should clarify that I think C is the only rational choice and that Rust is ill suited to osdev as well. I'm only talking about C++ here.
  - happyguy43 9y ago
    Nah, writing a kernel in modern C++ or Rust is pretty rad. Higher level abstractions can be designed to avoid bugs (As evidenced by the explosion of macros in the Linux code base). Check out L4Ka::Pistachio https://github.com/l4ka/pistachio https://github.com/l4ka/pistachio
  - greenhouse_gas 9y ago
    I know you're a prolific commentator here, so if you don't mind me asking ... Which operating systems have you designed (or worked on) to say that writing a microkernel in C is a symptom that they don't know anything about OS development?

s2g 9y ago

I'm conflicted on this. I really do like the idea of a challenger to the linux monoculture (among devs)/the windows monoculture (among consumers), but I really hate the idea of google getting yet more power. If it was pretty much anyone else doing this.

snvzz 9y ago
>If it was pretty much anyone else doing this. Look at seL4, minix3, genode, helenos.
forgot-my-pw 9y ago
Like Android, this is OSS. Sure, Google runs the core development, but everyone will benefit from this eventually.
- cat199 9y ago
  Control the API, control the platform. Control the platform, control the market around the platform. Sure it's 'open', but at the same time, heavily subject to the authority of the owners. See also the systemd/gnome impact to linux ecosystem.. posix in general keeps unices and unix likes (including linux here) more open than other systems since the API is less fluid / under the influence of a single group.. this phenomenon won't occur here.
  - jacksmith21006 9y ago
    Echo runs on Android. Amazon Fire runs on Android.
happyguy43 9y ago
How exactly is Google getting power here? The code is totally open. They just seem to be giving themselves more flexibility and potential to build better products. If anything, this will result in less power over the Linux kernel for Google. It seems like that’s something you’d appreciate. (My response to s2g’s reply below because HN is terrible for commenting: I see your point that they now unilaterally control how the kernel is engineered, but my counter argument is that I don’t think this meaningfully changes their control over the platform. They were already free to modify the Linux kernel at their whim. Having upstream control doesn’t make you emperor of derived applications. As a separate point, don’t you think it just results in less efficiency and worst products if google isn’t free to steer the project in the direction that makes the most sense for the application? It seems they can more easily make zircon for their use case, and I think that will result in cheaper and better phones.)

Toidiu 9y ago

Hi could someone compare fuchsia with redox, mozilla's operating system.

mercurial 9y ago
Redox is not "Mozilla's operating system" in any way or form. It is an immature OS whose primary contributor works at System 76. The only thing Mozilla-related about it is that it's written in Rust.

davesque 9y ago

Can someone summarize the technical tradeoffs they made in developing this OS vs. say Windows and Linux for example? Also, anything that is just plain better and represents recent innovations in OS design?