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What is it with Hacker News and unprovoked attacks on libertarians? (but since I can't resist) Of course libertarians consider self-interest in their thinking

What is it with Hacker News and unprovoked attacks on libertarians? (but since I can't resist) Of course libertarians consider self-interest in their thinking about a free society. Your key term is "get away with" and it points to the problems with regulatory agencies. When a government body has placed its seal of approval on a product, it does two things: a) Causes many consumers to trust the benefits / safety of the product, since the government said it's ok. (And they never lie to us, right?) b) Gives the corporation wiggle room within the certification, potentially changing the product for the worse while maintaining its approval. But if you take a step back, the limited-liability corporation is a fiction of the state in the first place. Hiding behind a "corporate person" could be a huge factor in bad behavior, enabled by state action. After the financial crisis in 2008, many lamented the fact that none of the bankers went to jail (although some corporations were heavily fined). Perhaps limited liability is the problem. If members of corporations were on the hook personally for injury to consumers, they might behave better?

Daishiman 9y ago
Your thesis is 100% inconsistent with the history of food safety regulations. Sure, put the people in corporations personally liable without any government agency inspecting. You're going to a society ten times more litigious than the US. People with no economic recourse to sue will get the short stick of things. Your proposition is beyond ridiculous, and that's what merits attacks on the profound naivete of libertarian approaches.
- clarkmoody 9y ago
  > Your thesis is 100% inconsistent with the history of food safety regulations. Source? > People with no economic recourse to sue will get the short stick of things. How is that different than now? > Your proposition is beyond ridiculous Say you, without providing any proposition of your own.
  - Daishiman 9y ago
    Go google "history of food safety" yourself. C'mon.
- ams6110 9y ago
  > the profound naivete of libertarian approaches I'd generalize to the "profound naivete of utopian approaches"
  - noir_lord 9y ago
    The old joke is "Communism is an amazing system, it's a shame no one has ever tried it" - in reference to the fact that Communism in places like the USSR wasn't really what the original proposers of it as an idea where suggesting. I think the same applies to libertarianism, it sounds good and clean but in reality human systems are like humans, messy chaotic and fickle. I think when it comes to regulation of a company you need the carrot and the stick, the carrot is "good PR and been seen to be a good corporate citizen that treats staff well results in betters sales" and the stick is "If you break the law their will be consequences and these are the laws". The problem with western markets (at least in my country (the UK)) is that we've moved away from the stick towards the US model of laissez-fair capitalism. Of course people then make the argument "Well the US model can't be that broken, it's the number one economy in the world" without considering the last century historically. The US is a massive economy but it also didn't get trashed in two world wars that nearly bankrupted it and was ideally placed to capitalize on them, it had all the advantages of the late industrial revolution/western civilization and vast amounts of resources. It would have been hard for it's economy not to succeed.
  - specialist 9y ago
    Huh. Utopian == libertarian. Thank you for connecting those dots for me.
sumedh 9y ago
> What is it with Hacker News and unprovoked attacks on libertarians? Probably because some libertarians always have the generic comment of taxation is theft. When I ask them who should pay for the military I don't get a reply back.
- orf 9y ago
  Also try asking them for a single successful market that embraces libertarian ideas. There are none (apparenty bitcoin comes closest). Apparently it's just never been tried successfully, because of reasons. It's funny, because they like to rag on communists who say exactly the same thing. Two sides of a utopian dream coin.

Daishiman 9y ago

Your thesis is 100% inconsistent with the history of food safety regulations. Sure, put the people in corporations personally liable without any government agency inspecting. You're going to a society ten times more litigious than the US. People with no economic recourse to sue will get the short stick of things. Your proposition is beyond ridiculous, and that's what merits attacks on the profound naivete of libertarian approaches.

clarkmoody 9y ago
> Your thesis is 100% inconsistent with the history of food safety regulations. Source? > People with no economic recourse to sue will get the short stick of things. How is that different than now? > Your proposition is beyond ridiculous Say you, without providing any proposition of your own.
- Daishiman 9y ago
  Go google "history of food safety" yourself. C'mon.
ams6110 9y ago
> the profound naivete of libertarian approaches I'd generalize to the "profound naivete of utopian approaches"
- noir_lord 9y ago
  The old joke is "Communism is an amazing system, it's a shame no one has ever tried it" - in reference to the fact that Communism in places like the USSR wasn't really what the original proposers of it as an idea where suggesting. I think the same applies to libertarianism, it sounds good and clean but in reality human systems are like humans, messy chaotic and fickle. I think when it comes to regulation of a company you need the carrot and the stick, the carrot is "good PR and been seen to be a good corporate citizen that treats staff well results in betters sales" and the stick is "If you break the law their will be consequences and these are the laws". The problem with western markets (at least in my country (the UK)) is that we've moved away from the stick towards the US model of laissez-fair capitalism. Of course people then make the argument "Well the US model can't be that broken, it's the number one economy in the world" without considering the last century historically. The US is a massive economy but it also didn't get trashed in two world wars that nearly bankrupted it and was ideally placed to capitalize on them, it had all the advantages of the late industrial revolution/western civilization and vast amounts of resources. It would have been hard for it's economy not to succeed.
- specialist 9y ago
  Huh. Utopian == libertarian. Thank you for connecting those dots for me.

sumedh 9y ago

> What is it with Hacker News and unprovoked attacks on libertarians? Probably because some libertarians always have the generic comment of taxation is theft. When I ask them who should pay for the military I don't get a reply back.

orf 9y ago
Also try asking them for a single successful market that embraces libertarian ideas. There are none (apparenty bitcoin comes closest). Apparently it's just never been tried successfully, because of reasons. It's funny, because they like to rag on communists who say exactly the same thing. Two sides of a utopian dream coin.