11 ms·

Free Software Foundation Receives $1M Donation from Pineapple Fund

255 points by madmax108 9y ago

noinput 9y ago
Huge congrats FSF!
banderman 9y ago
Please cash that out before this whole Tether mess unwinds.
- atwebb 9y ago
  I'm not expert (really, shocking I know), is there a scenario where the market starts going and the well known coins become the store of value? If the throttle is on converting back to fiat currency, then BTC/ETH/(LTC?) will be in demand and have the longest hold periods since they are currently the gateway out.
  - ufo 9y ago
    Sort of. If this goes the same way it did with mtgox in 2013, we should expect to see bitcoin prices shoot up in the tether exchanges and go down in the USD exchanges.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    In a collapse scenario there will be more speculative buying of some of them, but it certainly won't be at high prices. (this is vaguely tautological statement, if the prices stay high then it isn't a collapse, etc.)
neolander 9y ago
This is incredible, money being put to good use. Just a taste of what's to come in the future as more and more money is transferred to the people.
- gph 9y ago
  >as more and more money is transferred to the people Where do you think this money came from in the first place? You think the value of bitcoin was driven up by the 1%? Or magically created by gnomes like fractional reserve lending?
  - ttul 9y ago
    It was driven up by 80-year-olds draining their 401-K accounts to speculate in something exciting and new that their grandson mentioned.
  - belorn 9y ago
    If we want to be philosophical then answer is very simple. The money comes from people who want to buy bitcoins. Then we can ask why people want to buy bitcoins and the answer get a bit more complex but usefully branches into two areas. People want to either speculate (gamble) that the coins will increase in value because they think others also think that the value will increase and thus it will, or they want to buy the bitcoins because it enables them to buy objects for which bitcoins serves as value tokens. Which in turn leads us to ask about the nature of value tokens. Why do we use them, the history, intrinsic values, and so on.
    - gph 9y ago
      If we want to be non-philosophical then most the value of bitcoin has come from unsophisticated retail investors that haven't spent half as much time thinking about the 'store of value' as you have in this post and just want to make amazing profits like they've seen others make in a short time period.
    - nodoro 9y ago
      As far as I know the value of Bitcoin doesn't match the funds invested. So while the money comes from people wanting to buy Bitcoin, the value comes from "the market". But of course then you also have to consider where these Bitcoin comes from. The previous is only strictly true if the person making the donation is a miner or investor. It could also come from selling drugs, hacking or exit scamming.
ekianjo 9y ago
> "Free software is more than open source; it is a movement that encourages community collaboration and protects users' freedom," Glad to see people who clearly understand that "Open Source" does not encompass everything.
- jordigh 9y ago
  It refers to almost the same software. The difference is more on emphasis and what you care about than the set of software it refers to. It's about the underlying philosophy. I say this because it's important to remember that open source is also intended to refer to a strict definition that also addresses user freedoms. The open source definition for example forbids discriminating against fields of endeavour and says the software should be usable for any purpose. "Open source" doesn't just mean visible source. OpenBSD calls itself free software despite being opposed to copyleft, for example. Open source and free software are more allies than enemies, and I think it's important to remember that both want user freedom. They just express it in different ways and to a different degree.
  - mikegerwitz 9y ago
    > and I think it's important to remember that both want user freedom As a free software activist, I haven't found that to be true. Remember that the term "open source" was created explicitly to sell the development methodology to businesses without talking about the ethical issues. When developers write software under the umbrella of "open source", many aren't even aware of software freedom issues---they may be doing it because their peers are doing it; because they were told they should do it for a portfolio to get a job; or maybe because they like sharing their software with others. Some businesses liberate their code merely for contributions or press. That's certainly not the case for all open source developers---there is, as you said, an overlap. But it's important to use the term "free software" and talk about software freedom to start those discussions and get people thinking about software freedom.
    - arise 9y ago
      As a free software activist, do you think our effectual software freedoms would have advanced as far as they have without OSI's emphasize on the practical aspects of libre software? Do you think Eric Raymond and Bruce Perens could have made similar inroads with businesses if they had stuck to the (ambiguous, IMO) "free software" moniker?
distantsounds 9y ago
With the apparent volatility that Bitcoin has, how will they decide when to cash that out? Any amount is obviously good for the FSF but maximizing the donation may be a bit tricky with the current markets.
- belorn 9y ago
  I would expect them to do so imminently to normalize it into the budget. If someone gave them $1M worth of gold I would not expect them to sit on it (what possible use would FSF have with gold as a material?), but rather convert it into resources which then can be used to fund projects.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - yitchelle 9y ago
    I wonder how easy it would be to liquidate these bitcoins? I would imagine that Joe Blow tries to liquidate the same amount, alarm bells would ring very loudly.
    - ossguy 9y ago
      It is not easy, especially if you don't already have an account at a Bitcoin exchange. See my other comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16277833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16277833 for more details (tl;dr: we've been looking/signing up for exchanges for over 3 weeks and none have responded to our signup request yet).
      - ossguy 9y ago
        To clarify, by "we" I don't mean FSF. I work for a different 501(c)(3) non-profit.
brndnmtthws 9y ago
It's a shame that companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon and others who have benefited so much from the work of organizations like the FSF don't pony up. These companies are notably absent from the current list of patrons[1]. [1]: https://www.fsf.org/patrons https://www.fsf.org/patrons
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  There's something very contrary about expecting payment/compensation for FSF software. "Its free! Except if its useful; then it should cost you money!" That's a strange guilt-trip. I understand the impulse though. We all believe our hard work at creating something of value should be compensated. But it flies in the face of the 'free software' ideology. Which is why I don't endorse open projects at all. Or don't I understand the FSF at all? That's possible.
  - dmm 9y ago
    Free Software means free as in speech not free as in beer.
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      I hear that all the time. It means absolutely nothing to me. Beer is not free; speech is 'free of certain restrictions'. What part is that phrase getting at?
      - chimprich 9y ago
        It's referring to the distinction between two meanings of the word in English. Free as in no cost, and free as in freedom. If someone said "have some free beer" you would assume the first use of the term rather than the second (although you might be suspicious that an offer of "free beer" had a catch). It's just a slightly witty way of explaining the difference between the two terms with brevity. With free software, the freedom to copy software generally does mean the software is available at no cost, but that's not the goal behind the philosophy, nor is there any restriction on selling it or encouraging donations.
bobcallme 9y ago
This is money that could have been better spent to fund something more useful. I stopped supporting the Free Software Foundation once they starting making compromises in their mission and failed to give proper funding to critical infrastructure components that are part of the GNU Project. While they did say : > Increase innovation and the number of new projects in high priority areas of free software development, including the GNU Project; I'll believe it when I see it. We have become too dependent on core components that are not being properly maintained, lack funding or both. This won't solve the funding issue if these funds are squandered on a bunch of new projects and management. I won't give another dime to the FSF until management changes, campaigns actually does something engaging with the community and more funding is put towards critical GNU components (instead of new bloated projects). I still support the idea of Libre / Free Software, just not the religion and church that popped up around it. I'd like to see an organization that advocates for Free Software and is consistent in their mission (Hint : OSI and the Linux Foundation are not a fit).
- klez 9y ago
  > once they starting making compromises in their mission Honest question: what are you talking about? I seem to have missed that happening.
  - bobcallme 9y ago
    There are a lot of examples, but the most notable is the endorsement / promotion of the X60 / X200 with non-free EC firmware and a dial-up modem that requires non-free software to work. While not a freedom issue, they endorsed PureOS even though it uses a Debian kernel (linux-libre Vs. Debian kernel, not going to get into that here) while another distro was denied for that specific thing.
    - jwilk 9y ago
      What's wrong with Debian kernel?
      - 9y ago
testando12345 9y ago
FSF is a joke controlled by a pedophille
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
$1m or 91.45 BTC? EFF and HN should both know better and use the actual BTC value, that isn't vulnerable to 30% / day value changes.
- joosters 9y ago
  Well they're not going to be buying anything in bitcoin, might as well talk about the real world value. Better yet, cash out as soon as they can...
- schoen 9y ago
  I think you mean FSF here. (The Pineapple Fund has also donated to EFF.)
- lawlessone 9y ago
  If they use the BTC value they should also include the time it was sent
spookthesunset 9y ago
It’s not a million dollars, it’s bitcoin. Good luck cashing that out. Please denote it as such...
- AlwaysBCoding 9y ago
  What are you even talking about? Bitcoin is super liquid with high trading volumes. You can literally convert 100 Bitcoin to $1,000,000 USD in seconds, 24/7, anywhere in the world, without moving the market very much.
  - jcousins 9y ago
    Or you can request a block OTC trade with any of the major exchanges and they'll bite your arm off for your business. Zero slippage.
    - ossguy 9y ago
      Per my above comment, do you know of such an exchange that is accepting new account registrations? We would be happy to open an account there if they can indeed complete a mid-sized trade (including any required account verification) for a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization within a week.
  - ossguy 9y ago
    I work for a non-profit that has been trying since the beginning of January to get an account at an exchange that will convert a Bitcoin donation we received to USD. So far we have not had any luck, since many (most?) exchanges are not accepting new customers (or explicitly state that reviewing new account applications is their lowest priority) and those that do still accept new customers have multi-week wait times for opening accounts (at one exchange we've been waiting over 3 weeks ago with no reply yet). As a result, we cannot "literally convert 100 Bitcoin to $1,000,000 USD in seconds", or even 0.001 Bitcoin. In fact, we can't even do so in 3 weeks (and counting). Could you point us to an exchange that is accepting new signups and will verify an account for a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization within a day (or even a week)?
justifier 9y ago
do the funds sent to these recipients remain btc and are leveraged against as an asset or are they converted to fiat?
tomcooks 9y ago
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as $1M, is in fact, $903818.64.

255 points by madmax108 9y ago

noinput 9y ago

Huge congrats FSF!

banderman 9y ago

Please cash that out before this whole Tether mess unwinds.

atwebb 9y ago
I'm not expert (really, shocking I know), is there a scenario where the market starts going and the well known coins become the store of value? If the throttle is on converting back to fiat currency, then BTC/ETH/(LTC?) will be in demand and have the longest hold periods since they are currently the gateway out.
- ufo 9y ago
  Sort of. If this goes the same way it did with mtgox in 2013, we should expect to see bitcoin prices shoot up in the tether exchanges and go down in the USD exchanges.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  In a collapse scenario there will be more speculative buying of some of them, but it certainly won't be at high prices. (this is vaguely tautological statement, if the prices stay high then it isn't a collapse, etc.)

neolander 9y ago

This is incredible, money being put to good use. Just a taste of what's to come in the future as more and more money is transferred to the people.

gph 9y ago
>as more and more money is transferred to the people Where do you think this money came from in the first place? You think the value of bitcoin was driven up by the 1%? Or magically created by gnomes like fractional reserve lending?
- ttul 9y ago
  It was driven up by 80-year-olds draining their 401-K accounts to speculate in something exciting and new that their grandson mentioned.
- belorn 9y ago
  If we want to be philosophical then answer is very simple. The money comes from people who want to buy bitcoins. Then we can ask why people want to buy bitcoins and the answer get a bit more complex but usefully branches into two areas. People want to either speculate (gamble) that the coins will increase in value because they think others also think that the value will increase and thus it will, or they want to buy the bitcoins because it enables them to buy objects for which bitcoins serves as value tokens. Which in turn leads us to ask about the nature of value tokens. Why do we use them, the history, intrinsic values, and so on.
  - gph 9y ago
    If we want to be non-philosophical then most the value of bitcoin has come from unsophisticated retail investors that haven't spent half as much time thinking about the 'store of value' as you have in this post and just want to make amazing profits like they've seen others make in a short time period.
  - nodoro 9y ago
    As far as I know the value of Bitcoin doesn't match the funds invested. So while the money comes from people wanting to buy Bitcoin, the value comes from "the market". But of course then you also have to consider where these Bitcoin comes from. The previous is only strictly true if the person making the donation is a miner or investor. It could also come from selling drugs, hacking or exit scamming.

ekianjo 9y ago

> "Free software is more than open source; it is a movement that encourages community collaboration and protects users' freedom," Glad to see people who clearly understand that "Open Source" does not encompass everything.

jordigh 9y ago
It refers to almost the same software. The difference is more on emphasis and what you care about than the set of software it refers to. It's about the underlying philosophy. I say this because it's important to remember that open source is also intended to refer to a strict definition that also addresses user freedoms. The open source definition for example forbids discriminating against fields of endeavour and says the software should be usable for any purpose. "Open source" doesn't just mean visible source. OpenBSD calls itself free software despite being opposed to copyleft, for example. Open source and free software are more allies than enemies, and I think it's important to remember that both want user freedom. They just express it in different ways and to a different degree.
- mikegerwitz 9y ago
  > and I think it's important to remember that both want user freedom As a free software activist, I haven't found that to be true. Remember that the term "open source" was created explicitly to sell the development methodology to businesses without talking about the ethical issues. When developers write software under the umbrella of "open source", many aren't even aware of software freedom issues---they may be doing it because their peers are doing it; because they were told they should do it for a portfolio to get a job; or maybe because they like sharing their software with others. Some businesses liberate their code merely for contributions or press. That's certainly not the case for all open source developers---there is, as you said, an overlap. But it's important to use the term "free software" and talk about software freedom to start those discussions and get people thinking about software freedom.
  - arise 9y ago
    As a free software activist, do you think our effectual software freedoms would have advanced as far as they have without OSI's emphasize on the practical aspects of libre software? Do you think Eric Raymond and Bruce Perens could have made similar inroads with businesses if they had stuck to the (ambiguous, IMO) "free software" moniker?

distantsounds 9y ago

With the apparent volatility that Bitcoin has, how will they decide when to cash that out? Any amount is obviously good for the FSF but maximizing the donation may be a bit tricky with the current markets.

belorn 9y ago
I would expect them to do so imminently to normalize it into the budget. If someone gave them $1M worth of gold I would not expect them to sit on it (what possible use would FSF have with gold as a material?), but rather convert it into resources which then can be used to fund projects.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- yitchelle 9y ago
  I wonder how easy it would be to liquidate these bitcoins? I would imagine that Joe Blow tries to liquidate the same amount, alarm bells would ring very loudly.
  - ossguy 9y ago
    It is not easy, especially if you don't already have an account at a Bitcoin exchange. See my other comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16277833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16277833 for more details (tl;dr: we've been looking/signing up for exchanges for over 3 weeks and none have responded to our signup request yet).
    - ossguy 9y ago
      To clarify, by "we" I don't mean FSF. I work for a different 501(c)(3) non-profit.

brndnmtthws 9y ago

It's a shame that companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon and others who have benefited so much from the work of organizations like the FSF don't pony up. These companies are notably absent from the current list of patrons[1]. [1]: https://www.fsf.org/patrons https://www.fsf.org/patrons

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
There's something very contrary about expecting payment/compensation for FSF software. "Its free! Except if its useful; then it should cost you money!" That's a strange guilt-trip. I understand the impulse though. We all believe our hard work at creating something of value should be compensated. But it flies in the face of the 'free software' ideology. Which is why I don't endorse open projects at all. Or don't I understand the FSF at all? That's possible.
- dmm 9y ago
  Free Software means free as in speech not free as in beer.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    I hear that all the time. It means absolutely nothing to me. Beer is not free; speech is 'free of certain restrictions'. What part is that phrase getting at?
    - chimprich 9y ago
      It's referring to the distinction between two meanings of the word in English. Free as in no cost, and free as in freedom. If someone said "have some free beer" you would assume the first use of the term rather than the second (although you might be suspicious that an offer of "free beer" had a catch). It's just a slightly witty way of explaining the difference between the two terms with brevity. With free software, the freedom to copy software generally does mean the software is available at no cost, but that's not the goal behind the philosophy, nor is there any restriction on selling it or encouraging donations.

bobcallme 9y ago

This is money that could have been better spent to fund something more useful. I stopped supporting the Free Software Foundation once they starting making compromises in their mission and failed to give proper funding to critical infrastructure components that are part of the GNU Project. While they did say : > Increase innovation and the number of new projects in high priority areas of free software development, including the GNU Project; I'll believe it when I see it. We have become too dependent on core components that are not being properly maintained, lack funding or both. This won't solve the funding issue if these funds are squandered on a bunch of new projects and management. I won't give another dime to the FSF until management changes, campaigns actually does something engaging with the community and more funding is put towards critical GNU components (instead of new bloated projects). I still support the idea of Libre / Free Software, just not the religion and church that popped up around it. I'd like to see an organization that advocates for Free Software and is consistent in their mission (Hint : OSI and the Linux Foundation are not a fit).

klez 9y ago
> once they starting making compromises in their mission Honest question: what are you talking about? I seem to have missed that happening.
- bobcallme 9y ago
  There are a lot of examples, but the most notable is the endorsement / promotion of the X60 / X200 with non-free EC firmware and a dial-up modem that requires non-free software to work. While not a freedom issue, they endorsed PureOS even though it uses a Debian kernel (linux-libre Vs. Debian kernel, not going to get into that here) while another distro was denied for that specific thing.
  - jwilk 9y ago
    What's wrong with Debian kernel?
    - 9y ago

testando12345 9y ago

FSF is a joke controlled by a pedophille

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

$1m or 91.45 BTC? EFF and HN should both know better and use the actual BTC value, that isn't vulnerable to 30% / day value changes.

joosters 9y ago
Well they're not going to be buying anything in bitcoin, might as well talk about the real world value. Better yet, cash out as soon as they can...
schoen 9y ago
I think you mean FSF here. (The Pineapple Fund has also donated to EFF.)
lawlessone 9y ago
If they use the BTC value they should also include the time it was sent

spookthesunset 9y ago

It’s not a million dollars, it’s bitcoin. Good luck cashing that out. Please denote it as such...

AlwaysBCoding 9y ago
What are you even talking about? Bitcoin is super liquid with high trading volumes. You can literally convert 100 Bitcoin to $1,000,000 USD in seconds, 24/7, anywhere in the world, without moving the market very much.
- jcousins 9y ago
  Or you can request a block OTC trade with any of the major exchanges and they'll bite your arm off for your business. Zero slippage.
  - ossguy 9y ago
    Per my above comment, do you know of such an exchange that is accepting new account registrations? We would be happy to open an account there if they can indeed complete a mid-sized trade (including any required account verification) for a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization within a week.
- ossguy 9y ago
  I work for a non-profit that has been trying since the beginning of January to get an account at an exchange that will convert a Bitcoin donation we received to USD. So far we have not had any luck, since many (most?) exchanges are not accepting new customers (or explicitly state that reviewing new account applications is their lowest priority) and those that do still accept new customers have multi-week wait times for opening accounts (at one exchange we've been waiting over 3 weeks ago with no reply yet). As a result, we cannot "literally convert 100 Bitcoin to $1,000,000 USD in seconds", or even 0.001 Bitcoin. In fact, we can't even do so in 3 weeks (and counting). Could you point us to an exchange that is accepting new signups and will verify an account for a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization within a day (or even a week)?

justifier 9y ago

do the funds sent to these recipients remain btc and are leveraged against as an asset or are they converted to fiat?

tomcooks 9y ago

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as $1M, is in fact, $903818.64.