9 ms·

Steve Wozniak: ‘I don’t believe anything Elon Musk or Tesla says’

51 points by mudil 9y ago

joelrunyon 9y ago
Clickbait - here's the original sourced article - http://www.siliconbeat.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-dont-believe-anything-elon-musk-tesla-says/ http://www.siliconbeat.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-dont-bel... TLDR: He likes the car (2 of them), but not the hype. I think
- api 9y ago
  Elon's a funny animal. Most hype artists are full of shit and never deliver anything. Elon is full of shit but then ends up actually delivering something rather amazing-- but maybe not quite as amazing as promised and never as quickly. In /r/spacex they joke about "Elon time." Take "Elon years" and triple them. Of course this is typical for engineers and Elon is an engineer. I do it too. "Oh this will just take a few weeks" == months later...
  - johnchristopher 9y ago
    > In /r/spacex they joke about "Elon time." Take "Elon years" and double them. There used to be a Valve time.
    - dictum 9y ago
      "Duke Nukem Taking Forever" holds a sweet spot in my heart.
  - igravious 9y ago
    > Most hype artists are full of shit and never deliver anything. Elon is full of shit but then ends up actually delivering something rather amazing-- Ergo, by your own logic, Elon is not full of shit.
    - slantyyz 9y ago
      >> Most hype artists are full of shit and never deliver anything. Elon is full of shit but then ends up actually delivering something rather amazing-- >> Ergo, by your own logic, Elon is not full of shit. The way I read what he wrote, he/she's saying Elon is a hype artist that is (full_of_shit && delivers_something) as opposed to being a hype artist that is (full_of_shit && !delivers_something) .
      - igravious 9y ago
        Okay. I kind of wish I hadn't replied in the first place but thanks for giving me an alternate reading of it :/
    - freyir 9y ago
      No, read it again: Most bullshit artists deliver nothing. Others deliver something, but not what they promised.
      - igravious 9y ago
        Yes, but they were arguing that Musk delivers what he promised although not necessarily when he promised. In that case all engineers being eternally optimistic are bullshit artists to a fault (which nobody would say they are). Anyway, it's a stupid quibble but given what Musk has achieved it's kind of irritating.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - Outpox 9y ago
    > Of course this is typical for engineers and Elon is an engineer. He's not! This was discussed in the article comments and according to Wikipedia he have a BS in physics and another in economics. He started a PhD but quickly stopped.
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      I know a lot of people in Silicon Valley who are called engineers and only have a physics background. They aren't certified professional engineers in the disciplines that have licensing, like civil engineers, but they're still engineers.
      - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        Used to be, a large segment of Silicon Valley 'engineers' were trained in music. Some weird overlap that worked early on, at least until the market got flooded with trained software types.
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      He is. He's been performing as an Engineer for a decade. Which makes him one. Regardless of his early certification/degree.
      - notlob 9y ago
        He manages engineers, and he would seem to be quite effective at it (a rarity!), but being a highly technical manager isn’t the same as performing engineering work. Do you have a specific example in mind?
        JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        http://www.businessinsider.com/how-elon-musk-schedules-a-typical-week-2015-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-elon-musk-schedules-a-typ...
        9y ago
- dmix 9y ago
  Still not an HN quality article IMO, seems light on content and borderline gossipy. The only interesting part was his experience with the self-driving features and comparisons to BMW/Audi, but regardless he still continues to use it, so it must not be that bad.
- dang 9y ago
  OK, we've changed the URL to that from https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-i-dont-believe-anything-elon-musk-or-tesla-says/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-i-dont-.... Since this is more of a celebrity gossip piece than one that gratifies intellectual curiosity, users correctly flagged it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
malmsteen 9y ago
Maybe he has trust issues since his story with Steve Jobs :|
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ggregoire 9y ago
Not sure why this is getting upvoted. Does people actually upvote the "article" or just the title on HN?
- MiscIdeaMaker99 9y ago
  What's the difference between the two?
  - ggregoire 9y ago
    The title says ‘I don’t believe anything Elon Musk or Tesla says’. The article says ‘I don’t believe anything Elon Musk or Tesla says but I already have 2 Teslas and I'll probably buy the next one’.
rwc 9y ago
With respect to Woz, it seems he increasingly spouts these contrarian opinions simply to remain relevant. His contributions to discourse are sniping at large organizations from the outside.
- raisedbyninjas 9y ago
  His quote may be hyperbolic, but the article says he lost confidence after the conflict with their LIDAR provider. Which isn't an unreasonable view. Tesla may crack level 5 autonomous driving with their current hardware, but their solution requires also cracking problems in computer vision. An impediment none of the major competitors have.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    You're referring to the radar provider? Tesla doesn't use LIDAR except on a few test vehicles occasionally spotted near HQ.
madshiva 9y ago
He once said there is “way too much hype” around the company. Like it's not totally the case for Apple?
ShermanSamuel 9y ago
This is just a puff piece. He's not saying anything.
lolive 9y ago
I am sure he ordered the flamethrower anyway.
workthrowaway27 9y ago
It's odd how little skepticism any of Musk's claims are met with. I can't imagine the situation would be the same for anyone else. (Not to say he hasn't had many impressive accomplishments, but people seem to want to believe anything Musk says so much that they stop thinking critically).
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
nukeop 9y ago
Elon Musk is a very popular figure on sites like reddit that "like" technology and science but have very little understanding of it. Every week he says something that either shows what a "down to earth" guy he is, some doomsday prophecy, or announces some pipe dream technology that will never be worked on, and the masses start reposting his every word. He (or rather his PR team) is very good at creating that "image" and keeping himself popular on reddit, but he's terrible at the thing an enterpreneur is supposed to excel at - generating profits.
- JKCalhoun 9y ago
  r/futurology (blech!)
- stinos 9y ago
  an enterpreneur is supposed to excel at Honest question, but isn't the whole point (or one of the points) that he doesn't care too much about generating profits for shareholders etc (which I'd applaud - why does everything always have to be held up in the light of economy first?) but rather wants to create products no matter what (even if they are delivered way too late)? At least, that is the image which seems to be created. From heresay.
  - nukeop 9y ago
    Doesn't help much that he also sucks at delivering results.
- lewi 9y ago
  > but he's terrible at the thing an enterpreneur is supposed to excel at - generating profits. I think that is a very narrow definition. Elon as of today is worth 20.7b (Forbes), between you, me and the internet I think he's doing pretty well as an entrepreneur. A better fit IMO would be 'value'. Profits are what you chase if you are a CEO after quarterly returns and job security. See Amazon [1]. [1]: https://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/031414/amazon-never-makes-money-no-one-cares-amzn-aapl-wag-azo.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/031414/amazon-ne...
whack 9y ago
As a Tesla skeptic myself, I'm surprised at the visibility this "article" is getting. It reads like something you'd see in a celebrity gossip rag. "You won't BELIEVE what Steve Wozniak just said about Elon!" There are far better articles making a bear case against Tesla, and it's unfortunate that this is the one picking up clicks.
jijojv 9y ago
Hype is fine but I don't how Tesla is legally getting away with selling it and not delivering on its vaporware (full self driving)
surfmike 9y ago
Why do statements like this from Wozniak get any press? Steve Wozniak was a brilliant innovator early in the PC revolution days, but he hasn't been influential in the industry for many decades now.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  Once you get past the article fluff to what Woz actually said, it's usually pretty interesting. I prefer interesting content to statements from influential people.

51 points by mudil 9y ago

Clickbait - here's the original sourced article - http://www.siliconbeat.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-dont-believe-anything-elon-musk-tesla-says/ http://www.siliconbeat.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-dont-bel... TLDR: He likes the car (2 of them), but not the hype. I think

api 9y ago
Elon's a funny animal. Most hype artists are full of shit and never deliver anything. Elon is full of shit but then ends up actually delivering something rather amazing-- but maybe not quite as amazing as promised and never as quickly. In /r/spacex they joke about "Elon time." Take "Elon years" and triple them. Of course this is typical for engineers and Elon is an engineer. I do it too. "Oh this will just take a few weeks" == months later...
- johnchristopher 9y ago
  > In /r/spacex they joke about "Elon time." Take "Elon years" and double them. There used to be a Valve time.
  - dictum 9y ago
    "Duke Nukem Taking Forever" holds a sweet spot in my heart.
- igravious 9y ago
  > Most hype artists are full of shit and never deliver anything. Elon is full of shit but then ends up actually delivering something rather amazing-- Ergo, by your own logic, Elon is not full of shit.
  - slantyyz 9y ago
    >> Most hype artists are full of shit and never deliver anything. Elon is full of shit but then ends up actually delivering something rather amazing-- >> Ergo, by your own logic, Elon is not full of shit. The way I read what he wrote, he/she's saying Elon is a hype artist that is (full_of_shit && delivers_something) as opposed to being a hype artist that is (full_of_shit && !delivers_something) .
    - igravious 9y ago
      Okay. I kind of wish I hadn't replied in the first place but thanks for giving me an alternate reading of it :/
  - freyir 9y ago
    No, read it again: Most bullshit artists deliver nothing. Others deliver something, but not what they promised.
    - igravious 9y ago
      Yes, but they were arguing that Musk delivers what he promised although not necessarily when he promised. In that case all engineers being eternally optimistic are bullshit artists to a fault (which nobody would say they are). Anyway, it's a stupid quibble but given what Musk has achieved it's kind of irritating.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Outpox 9y ago
  > Of course this is typical for engineers and Elon is an engineer. He's not! This was discussed in the article comments and according to Wikipedia he have a BS in physics and another in economics. He started a PhD but quickly stopped.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    I know a lot of people in Silicon Valley who are called engineers and only have a physics background. They aren't certified professional engineers in the disciplines that have licensing, like civil engineers, but they're still engineers.
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      Used to be, a large segment of Silicon Valley 'engineers' were trained in music. Some weird overlap that worked early on, at least until the market got flooded with trained software types.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    He is. He's been performing as an Engineer for a decade. Which makes him one. Regardless of his early certification/degree.
    - notlob 9y ago
      He manages engineers, and he would seem to be quite effective at it (a rarity!), but being a highly technical manager isn’t the same as performing engineering work. Do you have a specific example in mind?
      - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        http://www.businessinsider.com/how-elon-musk-schedules-a-typical-week-2015-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-elon-musk-schedules-a-typ...
        9y ago
dmix 9y ago
Still not an HN quality article IMO, seems light on content and borderline gossipy. The only interesting part was his experience with the self-driving features and comparisons to BMW/Audi, but regardless he still continues to use it, so it must not be that bad.
dang 9y ago
OK, we've changed the URL to that from https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-i-dont-believe-anything-elon-musk-or-tesla-says/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/29/steve-wozniak-i-dont-.... Since this is more of a celebrity gossip piece than one that gratifies intellectual curiosity, users correctly flagged it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

malmsteen 9y ago

Maybe he has trust issues since his story with Steve Jobs :|

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ggregoire 9y ago

Not sure why this is getting upvoted. Does people actually upvote the "article" or just the title on HN?

MiscIdeaMaker99 9y ago
What's the difference between the two?
- ggregoire 9y ago
  The title says ‘I don’t believe anything Elon Musk or Tesla says’. The article says ‘I don’t believe anything Elon Musk or Tesla says but I already have 2 Teslas and I'll probably buy the next one’.

rwc 9y ago

With respect to Woz, it seems he increasingly spouts these contrarian opinions simply to remain relevant. His contributions to discourse are sniping at large organizations from the outside.

raisedbyninjas 9y ago
His quote may be hyperbolic, but the article says he lost confidence after the conflict with their LIDAR provider. Which isn't an unreasonable view. Tesla may crack level 5 autonomous driving with their current hardware, but their solution requires also cracking problems in computer vision. An impediment none of the major competitors have.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  You're referring to the radar provider? Tesla doesn't use LIDAR except on a few test vehicles occasionally spotted near HQ.

madshiva 9y ago

He once said there is “way too much hype” around the company. Like it's not totally the case for Apple?

ShermanSamuel 9y ago

This is just a puff piece. He's not saying anything.

lolive 9y ago

I am sure he ordered the flamethrower anyway.

workthrowaway27 9y ago

It's odd how little skepticism any of Musk's claims are met with. I can't imagine the situation would be the same for anyone else. (Not to say he hasn't had many impressive accomplishments, but people seem to want to believe anything Musk says so much that they stop thinking critically).

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

nukeop 9y ago

Elon Musk is a very popular figure on sites like reddit that "like" technology and science but have very little understanding of it. Every week he says something that either shows what a "down to earth" guy he is, some doomsday prophecy, or announces some pipe dream technology that will never be worked on, and the masses start reposting his every word. He (or rather his PR team) is very good at creating that "image" and keeping himself popular on reddit, but he's terrible at the thing an enterpreneur is supposed to excel at - generating profits.

JKCalhoun 9y ago
r/futurology (blech!)
stinos 9y ago
an enterpreneur is supposed to excel at Honest question, but isn't the whole point (or one of the points) that he doesn't care too much about generating profits for shareholders etc (which I'd applaud - why does everything always have to be held up in the light of economy first?) but rather wants to create products no matter what (even if they are delivered way too late)? At least, that is the image which seems to be created. From heresay.
- nukeop 9y ago
  Doesn't help much that he also sucks at delivering results.
lewi 9y ago
> but he's terrible at the thing an enterpreneur is supposed to excel at - generating profits. I think that is a very narrow definition. Elon as of today is worth 20.7b (Forbes), between you, me and the internet I think he's doing pretty well as an entrepreneur. A better fit IMO would be 'value'. Profits are what you chase if you are a CEO after quarterly returns and job security. See Amazon [1]. [1]: https://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/031414/amazon-never-makes-money-no-one-cares-amzn-aapl-wag-azo.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/031414/amazon-ne...

whack 9y ago

As a Tesla skeptic myself, I'm surprised at the visibility this "article" is getting. It reads like something you'd see in a celebrity gossip rag. "You won't BELIEVE what Steve Wozniak just said about Elon!" There are far better articles making a bear case against Tesla, and it's unfortunate that this is the one picking up clicks.

jijojv 9y ago

Hype is fine but I don't how Tesla is legally getting away with selling it and not delivering on its vaporware (full self driving)

surfmike 9y ago

Why do statements like this from Wozniak get any press? Steve Wozniak was a brilliant innovator early in the PC revolution days, but he hasn't been influential in the industry for many decades now.

greglindahl 9y ago
Once you get past the article fluff to what Woz actually said, it's usually pretty interesting. I prefer interesting content to statements from influential people.