4 ms·

The problem with secret services is that nobody by definition keeps them in check and balances. They can easy fake and create the reasons necessary for theire p

The problem with secret services is that nobody by definition keeps them in check and balances. They can easy fake and create the reasons necessary for theire power to continously expand. To be honest though, i find the chinese social credit (sesame credit) system far more social chilling then cameras. If you are social isolated, because did not greet the police men this week, that is breaking people down to subatomic particles. That is a nightmare from which people do not recover. Cameras can be destroyed- one guy fawkes mask protest later a goverment can be gone. But if everyone is setup to shun everyone and theire are no masks- and people get not even to meet other dissidents, that is where evil lies.

hutzlibu 9y ago
"The problem with secret services is that nobody by definition keeps them in check and balances. They can easy fake and create the reasons necessary for theire power to continously expand." Not true. You can have trusted elected people watching them, so secrets are still secrets, but trusted peiple who change regulary keep an eye on them. Accounting, requesting documenation, ongoing operations, practice, training, ect. That works as good as the political will behind it. And sure, there can allways be black departments operating on black money, but this is a different story. I am talking about a government agency, not a secret society. But yes, the latter happens, when there is not enough watching. And sesame credit I have to research.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  If the secret services are keeping their operations secret, how are the "trusted elected people" supposed to keep what they're doing in check?
  - hutzlibu 9y ago
    How can they keep it secret when they need money to operate? So you just follow where the money is going, what people working on what. And when the controllers are competent, you can hide maybe small things, but not big operations as they need big money. (and as I said, when there is black money, it is a different story)
    - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
      How can you know where the money is going when they've never had to pass an audit? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office_investigations_of_the_Department_of_Defense https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Of...
      - hutzlibu 9y ago
        Well, it is possible to change that, right? Might be much harder for you in the US, also because of the whole black money thing (CIA and cocaine), but in general it is possible.
        wu-ikkyu 9y ago
        No, it doesn't seem very possible to accurately audit trillions of dollars of transactions in the biggest and most secretive organization in history. They've been trying for almost 30 years now to no avail, all the while their budget and power have been increasing.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - WillReplyfFood 9y ago
      They can organize money of grid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair (only time they got caught) My assumption is they are also milking the mob.
bsenftner 9y ago
There are "trade secrets", as in how we do Process A better than some other group, and then there are "secret services": organized groups whose activity and purpose are "secret". Perhaps I am naive despite my graduate economics degree and 35+ years working in technology, but I do not see any long term benefit from any organization using "secret services". In fact, the short term expense to the organization is so high, coupled with the added risk of exposure and often organization threatening nature of exposure, I believe the use of "secret services" to be irrational power abuse and ultimately incompatible with an enlightened technological society, and a signal of mental illness by those in charge of the "secret services" employing entity. This is true for companies as well as nations, as well as parent teacher associations and local police. The creation and maintenance of "secret operations" generates too deep conflicts of interest for the majority of mature adults to endure without corruption. Plain and simple, and the biggest revolution our race has pending.

hutzlibu 9y ago

"The problem with secret services is that nobody by definition keeps them in check and balances. They can easy fake and create the reasons necessary for theire power to continously expand." Not true. You can have trusted elected people watching them, so secrets are still secrets, but trusted peiple who change regulary keep an eye on them. Accounting, requesting documenation, ongoing operations, practice, training, ect. That works as good as the political will behind it. And sure, there can allways be black departments operating on black money, but this is a different story. I am talking about a government agency, not a secret society. But yes, the latter happens, when there is not enough watching. And sesame credit I have to research.

wu-ikkyu 9y ago
If the secret services are keeping their operations secret, how are the "trusted elected people" supposed to keep what they're doing in check?
- hutzlibu 9y ago
  How can they keep it secret when they need money to operate? So you just follow where the money is going, what people working on what. And when the controllers are competent, you can hide maybe small things, but not big operations as they need big money. (and as I said, when there is black money, it is a different story)
  - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
    How can you know where the money is going when they've never had to pass an audit? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office_investigations_of_the_Department_of_Defense https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Of...
    - hutzlibu 9y ago
      Well, it is possible to change that, right? Might be much harder for you in the US, also because of the whole black money thing (CIA and cocaine), but in general it is possible.
      - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
        No, it doesn't seem very possible to accurately audit trillions of dollars of transactions in the biggest and most secretive organization in history. They've been trying for almost 30 years now to no avail, all the while their budget and power have been increasing.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
  - WillReplyfFood 9y ago
    They can organize money of grid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair (only time they got caught) My assumption is they are also milking the mob.

bsenftner 9y ago

There are "trade secrets", as in how we do Process A better than some other group, and then there are "secret services": organized groups whose activity and purpose are "secret". Perhaps I am naive despite my graduate economics degree and 35+ years working in technology, but I do not see any long term benefit from any organization using "secret services". In fact, the short term expense to the organization is so high, coupled with the added risk of exposure and often organization threatening nature of exposure, I believe the use of "secret services" to be irrational power abuse and ultimately incompatible with an enlightened technological society, and a signal of mental illness by those in charge of the "secret services" employing entity. This is true for companies as well as nations, as well as parent teacher associations and local police. The creation and maintenance of "secret operations" generates too deep conflicts of interest for the majority of mature adults to endure without corruption. Plain and simple, and the biggest revolution our race has pending.