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For my son (17 y.o.) it is online games and phone use in general. He has - I hope - mild depression, which - I believe - is caused by his online habits. His mo

For my son (17 y.o.) it is online games and phone use in general. He has - I hope - mild depression, which - I believe - is caused by his online habits. His mom and I thought taking his PC away from him would fix it. But then he falls into school-sleep cycle, that looks like full-blown depression. Yes, his grades are affected and in not a good way. What works for now is to participate in his life with him. As of now we are at a Volleyball tournament. While he "sucks" at it, the social interaction and sense of belonging to the team/cause that puts a wide smile on his face. Not saying we should take phones away from kids, but certainly they should be treated as potentially harming things when used incorrectly: guns, alcohol (, drugs?), etc. In any case, Volleyball includes scores of girls dressed in spandex, so there is hope he will get interested in them and starts to think how to get to them rather than look at the phone.

WWLink 9y ago
lol, parental involvement is a good thing! You're doing a great job at the parenting.
pixelperfect 9y ago
When I was around that age I also had my PC taken away from me. My recommendation would be to see if you can kickstart some hobby by spending a few hundred dollars on something as a substitute for the PC. Something of his choice than is more constructive than video games. When my PC was taken away and not replaced with anything, I just got bored and didn't know what to do with my time.
- rock_hard 9y ago
  Same with me when I was a kid. My parents also missed tons of opportunities to help me start other hobbies such as learning to play a instrument which I would have loved. So I stayed with the PC...lots of gaming initially, which lead to learning about hardware and how to build computers myself (gotta overclock that CPU)...but I also have to admit that it sparked the interest to make my own games early which led me to pick up programming and that opened up a ocean of opportunities later in life. It’s really hard to know what skill will be useful later in life...so now that I have kids in my own I try to support their natural interests which also allows my wife and I to moderate thins like gaming to some reasonable degree.
- jhgorrell 9y ago
  I enjoyed board games in my early years. YMMV.
- ams6110 9y ago
  I've been thinking that possibly that is part of the problem. Kids don't experience being bored anymore, and working out ways to deal with a lack of constant entertainment/stimulation. When I was a teenager I was frequently bored. Nothing on TV (we only had a few channels), no mobile phones, SMS, or online social media. You could call a friend on the telephone, maybe, if they were home and their phone wasn't busy. Once you were old enough to drive, and assuming you had access to a car, your options opened up a bit but meeting friends still took some planning. I have teens now, and I can literally not remember the last time I heard the "I'm bored" whinging that my parents heard so often. They are never bored. They always have their phones, with games and connections to friends. I don't know if that's good or bad.
- tripletmass 9y ago
  Where's my 34" irrevokable longboard smartphone I was promised, I might ask first. Or where are the desktop CPUs with fewer than 5-ring security please, without mentioning Intel Atom. This is the time period when encouraging people to go out coincided with being aware that meningitis and melinoma must be checked out by someone whose credentials would naturally be beyond all rapportage! Then Zika. And then don't go inside if the people there travel where long-capsid viruses are common; and the TSA would like to weigh in as a completely discredited agency which will be continuing thanks. Oh and no reason, but health premiums are a thing that mean to dominate now and if you work outside you can be fired for asking about health guidance. Primaries in the US; anyone, how's your favorite Third Party holding up? Great, great; now tell me just the good things about jurisprudence and family pride in Latin America; Canada if you like.
goialoq 9y ago
He was playing on the computer too much so you are training him to be a pervert?
- dang 9y ago
  Would you please stop posting uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? If you'd read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart—thoughtful conversation and intellectual curiosity—we'd be grateful.
JauntyHatAngle 9y ago
I mean, there is no way to know about what is happening in people's heads, so you may well have made the correct choice - however when I was 16-17, I played online games a fair bit and the reason for it was because I enjoyed them a lot and had friends on there I didn't have in real life. When I went to uni I met similar friends which led to my social life improving, but before then there really was no substitute for online games at the time simply because I did not enjoy the company of the people I'd met at the time. When I didn't have access to online games I'd just read the same amount instead. I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of the time (but not always), online games are a symptom, not a cause.
- JBlue42 9y ago
  Yeah, same for me. I played team sports until 18 or so all year but also found a great virtual friends playing MUDs and going on BBs and mailing lists centered around subjects that I was interested in. Really opened my eyes to a wider world. Then had a chance to strap on a backpack and go explore it. It's actually nice for an introvert - you can be of the world but still anonymous, engaging with other people when you want, withdrawing to read or re-energize when you don't.
ktta 9y ago
What he needs is a good set of friends. Not just acquaintances who he sees during an event (like say volleyball) and never again, but a couple friends(or atleast one) who with whom he feels like he can hangout with all day, year round. That'll help greatly with the depression. Even if they stare at a screen, they'll do it together. I speak from experience. Now how you can help him get a couple good friends, I don't know. It is something that has to happen very organically. Forcing it won't help in most cases (you'll know within a couple interactions). Don't try to push him to events he doesn't want to do. You can be around hundreds of people and still be lonely.
hux_ 9y ago
Few people realize how unprepared parents/authority figures are, "to do the right thing". And that includes the characters who are educated and aware. God knows what's happening in households with unmonitored 24*7 sewage being pumped into developing minds. Once your kid has had his or her mind misguided during crucial periods of its development, reprogramming it, postfacto is on par with rehabilitating the severely disabled. It takes a huge effort on all sides. When it comes to mental health and development, the instinctive thing to do is not always the right thing. And it's even harder to do after things go wrong. So take it seriously. Keep talking to experts and other families going through the same thing. Stay on his case. And lastly don't expect the govt or sillicon valleys shitheads (who produced this environment) to act fast.
Mandatum 9y ago
My parents went through the same thing with me. Turns out I just really, really like computers and I get really, really anxious around new people. That time of your life when everything is awkward and you're full of hormones certainly doesn't help. He's 17 which is the "I think I'm an adult" area. Every 2 years he'll be looking back and thinking, "wow, I was really young". Tread cautiously, treat him like an adult and just talk to him. The more comfortable he feels around you, the better. Many of us got sick of our parents at that age (I moved out the week after I turned 18 - nobody expected it), but I figured out later when I lived with another adult who treated me almost like I'd imagine a really good boss would, ala, "everyone keeps the house clean, if I ask you to do something it's because I've already done something today and I know you've seen it and not done anything about it. I get it, nobody wants to do this stuff - but I work 8 hours a day, 7 days a week and I hate it too, but it's easier on both of us if we work together". Get him to participate in more around the house stuff, cooking is good, help with your taxes if he's interested (then hopefully exploit that for the next 30 years). Repairing stuff. Don't tell, ask - reward. On the social side, go to meetups or clubs in things you've found interesting together, ask him for help finding them. I get people say kids should be around people their own age, and generally speaking I think they should, but I look back and at that time I just wanted to do stuff that interested me. Unfortunately none of my friends from school had similar interests - so I found that escape through work and online. I'm glad I forced myself to hang with my friends then since we still keep in touch, but there's opportunities all through his 20s (and especially university, send him to student living spaces) to build relationships with people his own age. I do regret however, forcing myself into relationships just because it was "what was expected of me". Plenty of people live lives that are considered "the norm", parents hope their children follow similar paths they did. But sometime we don't. And that's OK, so long as we're happy. So concentrate on that. Good luck!
- JCSato 9y ago
  Pretty much 100% agree with this.
- whateveruser 9y ago
  As someone who went through prolonged depression and still barely keeping it at bay, I sometimes get worried sick what I would do if my own (future) kids go through the same. Looking back, my parents were just too busy and struggling on their own so were just late in trying to help me. Thank you, this advice will really help me.
notacoward 9y ago
> What works for now is to participate in his life with him. Kudos to you for figuring this out. Taking the screen away without providing alternatives doesn't seem very helpful. Even if we accept the thesis that online interaction isn't deep or satisfying enough, replacing it with no interaction is still a step in the wrong direction. Anything that gets them to interact with peers or parents, be it sports or board games or shared craft projects or whatever, is going to be both more effective and easier to maintain over time. P.S. Yes, this is even true for introverts. Even if interaction is draining and has to be limited, there's still a difference between low-quality vs. high-quality interaction.
curun1r 9y ago
Rather than taking his PC away, you might consider moving it into a shared area of the house and setting a curfew on it. My own experience with depression has led me to believe that some of it is caused by light-exposure and stimulation before sleep and that having a device-free wind-down period can help. If the final 2 hrs before sleep were a time for non-screen activities (reading, board games or just general family talk), that might be a good compromise between letting him keep it and taking it away entirely.
hluska 9y ago
I have no advice, but you have both my sympathy and respect. Seriously good job looking after your boy! If you ever need someone to talk to/get a pat on the back from, my email is on my profile.
sandov 9y ago
When I was 17, I spent the entire year playing Leaugue of Legends, I wasn't on a good period of my life, but league helped me cope. I think that taking it away from me would have made things worse instead of me suddenly becoming very good socially. Next year, I went to college, met new people and stopped caring about League.

WWLink 9y ago

lol, parental involvement is a good thing! You're doing a great job at the parenting.

pixelperfect 9y ago

When I was around that age I also had my PC taken away from me. My recommendation would be to see if you can kickstart some hobby by spending a few hundred dollars on something as a substitute for the PC. Something of his choice than is more constructive than video games. When my PC was taken away and not replaced with anything, I just got bored and didn't know what to do with my time.

rock_hard 9y ago
Same with me when I was a kid. My parents also missed tons of opportunities to help me start other hobbies such as learning to play a instrument which I would have loved. So I stayed with the PC...lots of gaming initially, which lead to learning about hardware and how to build computers myself (gotta overclock that CPU)...but I also have to admit that it sparked the interest to make my own games early which led me to pick up programming and that opened up a ocean of opportunities later in life. It’s really hard to know what skill will be useful later in life...so now that I have kids in my own I try to support their natural interests which also allows my wife and I to moderate thins like gaming to some reasonable degree.
jhgorrell 9y ago
I enjoyed board games in my early years. YMMV.
ams6110 9y ago
I've been thinking that possibly that is part of the problem. Kids don't experience being bored anymore, and working out ways to deal with a lack of constant entertainment/stimulation. When I was a teenager I was frequently bored. Nothing on TV (we only had a few channels), no mobile phones, SMS, or online social media. You could call a friend on the telephone, maybe, if they were home and their phone wasn't busy. Once you were old enough to drive, and assuming you had access to a car, your options opened up a bit but meeting friends still took some planning. I have teens now, and I can literally not remember the last time I heard the "I'm bored" whinging that my parents heard so often. They are never bored. They always have their phones, with games and connections to friends. I don't know if that's good or bad.
tripletmass 9y ago
Where's my 34" irrevokable longboard smartphone I was promised, I might ask first. Or where are the desktop CPUs with fewer than 5-ring security please, without mentioning Intel Atom. This is the time period when encouraging people to go out coincided with being aware that meningitis and melinoma must be checked out by someone whose credentials would naturally be beyond all rapportage! Then Zika. And then don't go inside if the people there travel where long-capsid viruses are common; and the TSA would like to weigh in as a completely discredited agency which will be continuing thanks. Oh and no reason, but health premiums are a thing that mean to dominate now and if you work outside you can be fired for asking about health guidance. Primaries in the US; anyone, how's your favorite Third Party holding up? Great, great; now tell me just the good things about jurisprudence and family pride in Latin America; Canada if you like.

goialoq 9y ago

He was playing on the computer too much so you are training him to be a pervert?

dang 9y ago
Would you please stop posting uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? If you'd read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart—thoughtful conversation and intellectual curiosity—we'd be grateful.

JauntyHatAngle 9y ago

I mean, there is no way to know about what is happening in people's heads, so you may well have made the correct choice - however when I was 16-17, I played online games a fair bit and the reason for it was because I enjoyed them a lot and had friends on there I didn't have in real life. When I went to uni I met similar friends which led to my social life improving, but before then there really was no substitute for online games at the time simply because I did not enjoy the company of the people I'd met at the time. When I didn't have access to online games I'd just read the same amount instead. I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of the time (but not always), online games are a symptom, not a cause.

JBlue42 9y ago
Yeah, same for me. I played team sports until 18 or so all year but also found a great virtual friends playing MUDs and going on BBs and mailing lists centered around subjects that I was interested in. Really opened my eyes to a wider world. Then had a chance to strap on a backpack and go explore it. It's actually nice for an introvert - you can be of the world but still anonymous, engaging with other people when you want, withdrawing to read or re-energize when you don't.

ktta 9y ago

What he needs is a good set of friends. Not just acquaintances who he sees during an event (like say volleyball) and never again, but a couple friends(or atleast one) who with whom he feels like he can hangout with all day, year round. That'll help greatly with the depression. Even if they stare at a screen, they'll do it together. I speak from experience. Now how you can help him get a couple good friends, I don't know. It is something that has to happen very organically. Forcing it won't help in most cases (you'll know within a couple interactions). Don't try to push him to events he doesn't want to do. You can be around hundreds of people and still be lonely.

hux_ 9y ago

Few people realize how unprepared parents/authority figures are, "to do the right thing". And that includes the characters who are educated and aware. God knows what's happening in households with unmonitored 24*7 sewage being pumped into developing minds. Once your kid has had his or her mind misguided during crucial periods of its development, reprogramming it, postfacto is on par with rehabilitating the severely disabled. It takes a huge effort on all sides. When it comes to mental health and development, the instinctive thing to do is not always the right thing. And it's even harder to do after things go wrong. So take it seriously. Keep talking to experts and other families going through the same thing. Stay on his case. And lastly don't expect the govt or sillicon valleys shitheads (who produced this environment) to act fast.

Mandatum 9y ago

My parents went through the same thing with me. Turns out I just really, really like computers and I get really, really anxious around new people. That time of your life when everything is awkward and you're full of hormones certainly doesn't help. He's 17 which is the "I think I'm an adult" area. Every 2 years he'll be looking back and thinking, "wow, I was really young". Tread cautiously, treat him like an adult and just talk to him. The more comfortable he feels around you, the better. Many of us got sick of our parents at that age (I moved out the week after I turned 18 - nobody expected it), but I figured out later when I lived with another adult who treated me almost like I'd imagine a really good boss would, ala, "everyone keeps the house clean, if I ask you to do something it's because I've already done something today and I know you've seen it and not done anything about it. I get it, nobody wants to do this stuff - but I work 8 hours a day, 7 days a week and I hate it too, but it's easier on both of us if we work together". Get him to participate in more around the house stuff, cooking is good, help with your taxes if he's interested (then hopefully exploit that for the next 30 years). Repairing stuff. Don't tell, ask - reward. On the social side, go to meetups or clubs in things you've found interesting together, ask him for help finding them. I get people say kids should be around people their own age, and generally speaking I think they should, but I look back and at that time I just wanted to do stuff that interested me. Unfortunately none of my friends from school had similar interests - so I found that escape through work and online. I'm glad I forced myself to hang with my friends then since we still keep in touch, but there's opportunities all through his 20s (and especially university, send him to student living spaces) to build relationships with people his own age. I do regret however, forcing myself into relationships just because it was "what was expected of me". Plenty of people live lives that are considered "the norm", parents hope their children follow similar paths they did. But sometime we don't. And that's OK, so long as we're happy. So concentrate on that. Good luck!

JCSato 9y ago
Pretty much 100% agree with this.
whateveruser 9y ago
As someone who went through prolonged depression and still barely keeping it at bay, I sometimes get worried sick what I would do if my own (future) kids go through the same. Looking back, my parents were just too busy and struggling on their own so were just late in trying to help me. Thank you, this advice will really help me.

notacoward 9y ago

> What works for now is to participate in his life with him. Kudos to you for figuring this out. Taking the screen away without providing alternatives doesn't seem very helpful. Even if we accept the thesis that online interaction isn't deep or satisfying enough, replacing it with no interaction is still a step in the wrong direction. Anything that gets them to interact with peers or parents, be it sports or board games or shared craft projects or whatever, is going to be both more effective and easier to maintain over time. P.S. Yes, this is even true for introverts. Even if interaction is draining and has to be limited, there's still a difference between low-quality vs. high-quality interaction.

curun1r 9y ago

Rather than taking his PC away, you might consider moving it into a shared area of the house and setting a curfew on it. My own experience with depression has led me to believe that some of it is caused by light-exposure and stimulation before sleep and that having a device-free wind-down period can help. If the final 2 hrs before sleep were a time for non-screen activities (reading, board games or just general family talk), that might be a good compromise between letting him keep it and taking it away entirely.

hluska 9y ago

I have no advice, but you have both my sympathy and respect. Seriously good job looking after your boy! If you ever need someone to talk to/get a pat on the back from, my email is on my profile.

sandov 9y ago

When I was 17, I spent the entire year playing Leaugue of Legends, I wasn't on a good period of my life, but league helped me cope. I think that taking it away from me would have made things worse instead of me suddenly becoming very good socially. Next year, I went to college, met new people and stopped caring about League.