4 ms·

That's the critical point about racism that no one seems to mention though. Every racist person is racist ultimately because of fear. Regardless of how justifie

That's the critical point about racism that no one seems to mention though. Every racist person is racist ultimately because of fear. Regardless of how justified their fear is, they hate because they are consumed by fear and mistrust of the other, which is a natural human reaction. We may not empathize with their fear but to them it is very real. When you understand racism in this context it becomes clear that the narrative of people being racist because they are hateful is far too shallow. It goes much deeper than that.

mistermann 9y ago
You make it sound as if it can be nothing but emotional, whereas there actually can be an objective, reasoned aspect as well.
- meri_dian 9y ago
  No one is objective and we are very often ruled by emotion.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Which is neither here, nor there. We might be "very often ruled by emotion" but there's also an objective reality out there. A black guy flirting with a white woman in the 20's Alabama would indeed find themselves hanging from a tree -- whether they were "objective" or not.
    - meri_dian 9y ago
      And that would happen because of herd mentality outrage fueled by anger that ultimately derives from fear.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        If that was true, it could happen towards any group and at all times, but it usually happens to specific groups in specific scenarios. The anger and outrage helped keep blacks down, and thus their wages down, and keeping them for asking for more and competing with whites. Just like before the civil war it helped justify their being kept as slaves, and thus function as profit centers. So it's not just irrational fear.
        meri_dian 9y ago
        It's often the case that majority groups feel threatened by minority groups, or that the majority is jealous of a relatively more successful minority. Or that a minority group feels resentment for bad treatment. These are all conditions that cause racial tension to flare. It's actually quite predictable, which reminds us that the spread of racism is like a social disease and should be treated as such.
        mistermann 9y ago
        coldtea was pointing out an example where racism is not irrational, but very rational indeed. It is statistically valid for black people in the US to be afraid of white people in certain situations.
- teawrecks 9y ago
  So you're saying the contestant's husband poses an actual legitimate threat to the judge? Or is it just a stereotype he's reacting to?
  - coldtea 9y ago
    He's taking a stance for many, and treats the other as if he equally represents many. He is not ready to "forgive and forget" and put "water under the bridge" for what he thinks those many did (or continue to do) to his country. That's not a response to a "legitimate threat", but it's the expression of a legitimate (as far as that person is concerned) grievance.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    > So you're saying You're aware of the meme going around regarding this phrase I assume? :) No, I'm saying there can be an objective, reasoned aspect as to racism, that is doesn't have to be purely based on "fear".
essayist 9y ago
And so the question becomes: who drives those fears, and what makes the fearful ones resistant to new information?
coldtea 9y ago
>That's the critical point about racism that no one seems to mention though. Every racist person is racist ultimately because of fear. The thing is, fear can be totally rational and even justified and not your fault. In which case, it's not racism. E.g. a black in the 30's south fearing of whites (for lynching, beating up, etc) is justified. But a white feeling superior, and believing those blacks are animals, to be kept in their place, etc, that was actual racism. [Added] If fact actual racism, from the first land grabs in Americas, to the development of official theories of "race" back in the 18th and 19th centuries (Gobineau, Galton and so on IIRC), is strongly tied to power grab -- painting the other as inferior to morally justify taking other their land and enslaving them. Racism was used as a tool to justify European colonialism, US slavery, Japanese conquests, etc. Racism without having the upper hand, is hardly racism.
- lotyrin 9y ago
  You don't have to have the upper hand to be racist, and you don't have to be voluntarily racist, and you don't have to be at fault to be racist. Blacks in the 1930s making generalizations about whites is still racism, regardless of how justified or disadvantaged they may be. I know this means that there's an uncomfortable category, a shade of gray that is "justified racism" and there are situations where not being racist might mean you're putting yourself at risk by trusting someone (e.g. your historical violent white man example) that due to historical circumstances has the "upper hand" and might use it to cause you harm, and these aren't very comfortable or popular ideas, but ... too bad? When you can wrestle with the idea that racism can possibly be justified or a useful heuristic, you can possibly relate to the people who are racist, understand their fears and mistrust, and possibly bridge a gap to where you can explain to them that they don't have much to fear from the other.
- teawrecks 9y ago
  But the rational fear they once had is no longer justified. The judge on that TV show has no reason to be weary of the contestant's husband at all, it's completely irrational. And anyone that looks at that situation and says, "actually, history shows he's justified in his xenophobia" is making the same irrational mistake.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
I don't for a minute buy the "racism is fear" line, seems like greed, ignorance, innate tribalism (at least) are all equally strong motivators.

mistermann 9y ago

You make it sound as if it can be nothing but emotional, whereas there actually can be an objective, reasoned aspect as well.

meri_dian 9y ago
No one is objective and we are very often ruled by emotion.
- coldtea 9y ago
  Which is neither here, nor there. We might be "very often ruled by emotion" but there's also an objective reality out there. A black guy flirting with a white woman in the 20's Alabama would indeed find themselves hanging from a tree -- whether they were "objective" or not.
  - meri_dian 9y ago
    And that would happen because of herd mentality outrage fueled by anger that ultimately derives from fear.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      If that was true, it could happen towards any group and at all times, but it usually happens to specific groups in specific scenarios. The anger and outrage helped keep blacks down, and thus their wages down, and keeping them for asking for more and competing with whites. Just like before the civil war it helped justify their being kept as slaves, and thus function as profit centers. So it's not just irrational fear.
      - meri_dian 9y ago
        It's often the case that majority groups feel threatened by minority groups, or that the majority is jealous of a relatively more successful minority. Or that a minority group feels resentment for bad treatment. These are all conditions that cause racial tension to flare. It's actually quite predictable, which reminds us that the spread of racism is like a social disease and should be treated as such.
        mistermann 9y ago
        coldtea was pointing out an example where racism is not irrational, but very rational indeed. It is statistically valid for black people in the US to be afraid of white people in certain situations.
teawrecks 9y ago
So you're saying the contestant's husband poses an actual legitimate threat to the judge? Or is it just a stereotype he's reacting to?
- coldtea 9y ago
  He's taking a stance for many, and treats the other as if he equally represents many. He is not ready to "forgive and forget" and put "water under the bridge" for what he thinks those many did (or continue to do) to his country. That's not a response to a "legitimate threat", but it's the expression of a legitimate (as far as that person is concerned) grievance.
- mistermann 9y ago
  > So you're saying You're aware of the meme going around regarding this phrase I assume? :) No, I'm saying there can be an objective, reasoned aspect as to racism, that is doesn't have to be purely based on "fear".

essayist 9y ago

And so the question becomes: who drives those fears, and what makes the fearful ones resistant to new information?

coldtea 9y ago

>That's the critical point about racism that no one seems to mention though. Every racist person is racist ultimately because of fear. The thing is, fear can be totally rational and even justified and not your fault. In which case, it's not racism. E.g. a black in the 30's south fearing of whites (for lynching, beating up, etc) is justified. But a white feeling superior, and believing those blacks are animals, to be kept in their place, etc, that was actual racism. [Added] If fact actual racism, from the first land grabs in Americas, to the development of official theories of "race" back in the 18th and 19th centuries (Gobineau, Galton and so on IIRC), is strongly tied to power grab -- painting the other as inferior to morally justify taking other their land and enslaving them. Racism was used as a tool to justify European colonialism, US slavery, Japanese conquests, etc. Racism without having the upper hand, is hardly racism.

lotyrin 9y ago
You don't have to have the upper hand to be racist, and you don't have to be voluntarily racist, and you don't have to be at fault to be racist. Blacks in the 1930s making generalizations about whites is still racism, regardless of how justified or disadvantaged they may be. I know this means that there's an uncomfortable category, a shade of gray that is "justified racism" and there are situations where not being racist might mean you're putting yourself at risk by trusting someone (e.g. your historical violent white man example) that due to historical circumstances has the "upper hand" and might use it to cause you harm, and these aren't very comfortable or popular ideas, but ... too bad? When you can wrestle with the idea that racism can possibly be justified or a useful heuristic, you can possibly relate to the people who are racist, understand their fears and mistrust, and possibly bridge a gap to where you can explain to them that they don't have much to fear from the other.
teawrecks 9y ago
But the rational fear they once had is no longer justified. The judge on that TV show has no reason to be weary of the contestant's husband at all, it's completely irrational. And anyone that looks at that situation and says, "actually, history shows he's justified in his xenophobia" is making the same irrational mistake.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago

I don't for a minute buy the "racism is fear" line, seems like greed, ignorance, innate tribalism (at least) are all equally strong motivators.