5 ms·

What Life Looks Like When Night Lasts for Days

105 points by walkingolof 9y ago

jessriedel 9y ago
The weak expert consensus is now that the largest contributor to near-sightedness is reduced exposure to sunlight as a young child which causes the eyes to grow slightly differently. Do places above the Arctic circle have higher rates of near-sightedness? EDIT: apparently there is a correlation, but it seems to me it's not as strong as the sunlight theory would have suggested. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1395-3907.2003.0151.x/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1395-3907.2003....
- taneq 9y ago
  I can't understand how sunlight exposure could be more of a problem than excessive close-range work (reading books, etc.) during formative years.
  - Filligree 9y ago
    Biology doesn't have to make sense, and a lot of it doesn't. There are weirder correlations in there.
  - NiklasMort 9y ago
    That is a misconception and has been debunked (same goes for reading in dim light), I been a kid like that and I basically spend all day since the last 15y in front of a computer and I have near perfect eye sight. The "screen time" is not at fault per se if you get enough outside time. The reason is not just any "sunlight exposure" but it is about UV radiation that is important for the development of the eye.
    - leereeves 9y ago
      The linked study doesn't agree that "that is a misconception and has been debunked". It says it's true: > As indicated by other reports, myopia was found to be associated with ... education and nearwork.
      - jessriedel 9y ago
        The above linked study is from 14 years ago. (I linked it because it addressed arctic communities.) It's the more recent work has mostly ruled out the near-work explanation. > ...for many years there was an assumption that long hours of study indoors, staring closely at books (near work) and never focusing on distant objects, led to myopia. This study belied that error. http://sunlightinstitute.org/research-shows-sun-exposure-reduces-myopia/ http://sunlightinstitute.org/research-shows-sun-exposure-red... > ...increased load of near work was not significantly associated with odds of myopia when factors including parental myopia, demographics, and outdoor activities were adjusted for. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930282/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930282/
      - NiklasMort 9y ago
        wrong conclusion...it is because those people are not doing this outside ;) so yes if you sit all day at home and read books it won't be good but the reason is not the reading distance. I remember as a kid my parents always said "don't sit so close to the TV"...same story there
- nwatson 9y ago
  Perhaps there's correlation between sunlight exposure and being out in "large spaces" where the majority of what you're seeing is farther away than your homes' walls. Having developing eyes focus on a mountain panorama or distant trees across a lake leads to different stresses on the eyeball ... or perhaps some different training for physiological systems that deal with focus.
  - jessriedel 9y ago
    > Perhaps there's correlation between sunlight exposure and being out in "large spaces" where the majority of what you're seeing is farther away than your homes' walls. This was one of the other leading hypotheses for a long time. More recent data came down pretty decidedly on UV light rather than focal range. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16248851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16248851
- e12e 9y ago
  Just a note, that with polar night comes a) long winter with sun and snow, and b) polar day.
  - e12e 9y ago
    Further, polar night in Tromsø ends around 21st of January, while the midnight sun starts around 21st of May - that's roughly 17 weeks going from the sun not rising, to the sun not setting - more than an hour of difference, week to week on average (0-24 hours, in 17 weeks). [ed: of course, the change isn't linear: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/norway/tromso https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/norway/tromso ]
rypskar 9y ago
At least in my opinion the best part about living north of the Arctic circle is the months where it don't get dark
- luisramalho 9y ago
  That's interesting. Moving from Southern Europe to Northern Europe that was one of the worst things for me. I simply could not get any sleep. One would think that they would have nice blackout curtains but in fact the curtains let all the light in, making sleeping impossible.
  - tzahola 9y ago
    >making sleeping impossible https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Night-Eye-Shade-GNES/dp/B009V0IUWU https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Night-Eye-Shade-GNES/dp/B009V0...
  - jimmaswell 9y ago
    I just put a shirt over my eyes
  - CalRobert 9y ago
    These do the trick pretty well. Considering the cost could you not install them? http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/textiles-rugs/curtains-blinds/tupplur-block-out-roller-blind-white-art-60349115/ http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/textiles-rugs/curtains-bl...
    - e12e 9y ago
      I don't mind the change in light (dark or light) - but a friend recommended sticking alum foil over windows with normal house/floor cleaning soap for glue (doesn't hurt the glass, makes for easy removal). Worked for me when I worked night shift and went to bed around 10 am.
  - bjelkeman-again 9y ago
    I used to have a bedroom with four windows and no blinds in Stockholm. It worked, but after five years I put in some blinds.
randcraw 9y ago
Growing up in central Michigan, followed by career years mostly in the mid Atlantic, I see both sides to immersion in white winter and its short days. In the north, Winter is an opportunity to shift gears, don different threads, and turn your attention to cold, footing, visibility, and gloom. But there's also skating on prepared rinks and for miles along snow covered frozen rivers, hiking and cross country skiing through thick stands of snow covered pines in dead silence at 15F, and cold play in a wealth of activities that exist only where cold and ice can pile up and last for months. And then you return home, slip into toasty togs, and warm yourself from within with a host of drinks that can't fully be enjoyed any other way. Winter does have a certain magic to it.
- Symbiote 9y ago
  Note that even central Michigan is south of much of Europe. Today Lansing has the same day length as Rome, a full hour extra daylight today compared with Berlin, and two hours more than Oslo. I don't like the short days in Denmark, but I'd dislike them less if there was the opportunity for hiking etc in the snow.
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    I was thinking something like this. I moved from Indiana to Trondheim, Norway 4.5 years back (Oslo is a 45ish minute flight south). Sometimes I'd just love to have a nice, "long" michigan winter day.
    - ams6110 9y ago
      What's the backstory on moving from Indiana to Norway?
      - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
        It's a love story. Met some dude playing a text-based MMORPG some years back, and things developed from there.
- 9y ago
magicbuzz 9y ago
I haven't spent any time in the Arctic Circle but it's been an itch I want to scratch. The last 10 years I've been based at about 19° S but I went and spent half a year in 46° S. Arriving in summer, my brain kept thinking it was 4PM all the way to 9PM :-) Short winter days would race by. I found myself thinking 'day over already?!' a lot. The advantage was you were always discussing the dawn beauty with neighbours as everyone saw it.
Razengan 9y ago
Speaking of endless night, an idea that has always intrigued me is the prospect of some rogue planets [0] out there, that don't get any light from a star but may still support life through their own geothermal activity and other chemical processes. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_planet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_planet
weeksie 9y ago
I grew up in Alaska, though not far enough north that night never ended. Still, when you go to a mostly windowless school (yay 70s brutalist architecture), you arrive in the dark and leave in the dark. I'd get a peek at the sun sometimes but effectively I'd only see the sun on weekends. Both the winters and summers were surreal, the days bled into one another. I don't miss it at all, though I wouldn't mind going back home for a week in the middle of winter just for the memory jog.

105 points by walkingolof 9y ago

The weak expert consensus is now that the largest contributor to near-sightedness is reduced exposure to sunlight as a young child which causes the eyes to grow slightly differently. Do places above the Arctic circle have higher rates of near-sightedness? EDIT: apparently there is a correlation, but it seems to me it's not as strong as the sunlight theory would have suggested. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1395-3907.2003.0151.x/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1395-3907.2003....

taneq 9y ago
I can't understand how sunlight exposure could be more of a problem than excessive close-range work (reading books, etc.) during formative years.
- Filligree 9y ago
  Biology doesn't have to make sense, and a lot of it doesn't. There are weirder correlations in there.
- NiklasMort 9y ago
  That is a misconception and has been debunked (same goes for reading in dim light), I been a kid like that and I basically spend all day since the last 15y in front of a computer and I have near perfect eye sight. The "screen time" is not at fault per se if you get enough outside time. The reason is not just any "sunlight exposure" but it is about UV radiation that is important for the development of the eye.
  - leereeves 9y ago
    The linked study doesn't agree that "that is a misconception and has been debunked". It says it's true: > As indicated by other reports, myopia was found to be associated with ... education and nearwork.
    - jessriedel 9y ago
      The above linked study is from 14 years ago. (I linked it because it addressed arctic communities.) It's the more recent work has mostly ruled out the near-work explanation. > ...for many years there was an assumption that long hours of study indoors, staring closely at books (near work) and never focusing on distant objects, led to myopia. This study belied that error. http://sunlightinstitute.org/research-shows-sun-exposure-reduces-myopia/ http://sunlightinstitute.org/research-shows-sun-exposure-red... > ...increased load of near work was not significantly associated with odds of myopia when factors including parental myopia, demographics, and outdoor activities were adjusted for. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930282/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930282/
    - NiklasMort 9y ago
      wrong conclusion...it is because those people are not doing this outside ;) so yes if you sit all day at home and read books it won't be good but the reason is not the reading distance. I remember as a kid my parents always said "don't sit so close to the TV"...same story there
nwatson 9y ago
Perhaps there's correlation between sunlight exposure and being out in "large spaces" where the majority of what you're seeing is farther away than your homes' walls. Having developing eyes focus on a mountain panorama or distant trees across a lake leads to different stresses on the eyeball ... or perhaps some different training for physiological systems that deal with focus.
- jessriedel 9y ago
  > Perhaps there's correlation between sunlight exposure and being out in "large spaces" where the majority of what you're seeing is farther away than your homes' walls. This was one of the other leading hypotheses for a long time. More recent data came down pretty decidedly on UV light rather than focal range. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16248851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16248851
e12e 9y ago
Just a note, that with polar night comes a) long winter with sun and snow, and b) polar day.
- e12e 9y ago
  Further, polar night in Tromsø ends around 21st of January, while the midnight sun starts around 21st of May - that's roughly 17 weeks going from the sun not rising, to the sun not setting - more than an hour of difference, week to week on average (0-24 hours, in 17 weeks). [ed: of course, the change isn't linear: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/norway/tromso https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/norway/tromso ]

rypskar 9y ago

At least in my opinion the best part about living north of the Arctic circle is the months where it don't get dark

luisramalho 9y ago
That's interesting. Moving from Southern Europe to Northern Europe that was one of the worst things for me. I simply could not get any sleep. One would think that they would have nice blackout curtains but in fact the curtains let all the light in, making sleeping impossible.
- tzahola 9y ago
  >making sleeping impossible https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Night-Eye-Shade-GNES/dp/B009V0IUWU https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Night-Eye-Shade-GNES/dp/B009V0...
- jimmaswell 9y ago
  I just put a shirt over my eyes
- CalRobert 9y ago
  These do the trick pretty well. Considering the cost could you not install them? http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/textiles-rugs/curtains-blinds/tupplur-block-out-roller-blind-white-art-60349115/ http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/textiles-rugs/curtains-bl...
  - e12e 9y ago
    I don't mind the change in light (dark or light) - but a friend recommended sticking alum foil over windows with normal house/floor cleaning soap for glue (doesn't hurt the glass, makes for easy removal). Worked for me when I worked night shift and went to bed around 10 am.
- bjelkeman-again 9y ago
  I used to have a bedroom with four windows and no blinds in Stockholm. It worked, but after five years I put in some blinds.

randcraw 9y ago

Growing up in central Michigan, followed by career years mostly in the mid Atlantic, I see both sides to immersion in white winter and its short days. In the north, Winter is an opportunity to shift gears, don different threads, and turn your attention to cold, footing, visibility, and gloom. But there's also skating on prepared rinks and for miles along snow covered frozen rivers, hiking and cross country skiing through thick stands of snow covered pines in dead silence at 15F, and cold play in a wealth of activities that exist only where cold and ice can pile up and last for months. And then you return home, slip into toasty togs, and warm yourself from within with a host of drinks that can't fully be enjoyed any other way. Winter does have a certain magic to it.

Symbiote 9y ago
Note that even central Michigan is south of much of Europe. Today Lansing has the same day length as Rome, a full hour extra daylight today compared with Berlin, and two hours more than Oslo. I don't like the short days in Denmark, but I'd dislike them less if there was the opportunity for hiking etc in the snow.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  I was thinking something like this. I moved from Indiana to Trondheim, Norway 4.5 years back (Oslo is a 45ish minute flight south). Sometimes I'd just love to have a nice, "long" michigan winter day.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    What's the backstory on moving from Indiana to Norway?
    - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
      It's a love story. Met some dude playing a text-based MMORPG some years back, and things developed from there.
9y ago

magicbuzz 9y ago

I haven't spent any time in the Arctic Circle but it's been an itch I want to scratch. The last 10 years I've been based at about 19° S but I went and spent half a year in 46° S. Arriving in summer, my brain kept thinking it was 4PM all the way to 9PM :-) Short winter days would race by. I found myself thinking 'day over already?!' a lot. The advantage was you were always discussing the dawn beauty with neighbours as everyone saw it.

Razengan 9y ago

Speaking of endless night, an idea that has always intrigued me is the prospect of some rogue planets [0] out there, that don't get any light from a star but may still support life through their own geothermal activity and other chemical processes. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_planet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_planet

weeksie 9y ago

I grew up in Alaska, though not far enough north that night never ended. Still, when you go to a mostly windowless school (yay 70s brutalist architecture), you arrive in the dark and leave in the dark. I'd get a peek at the sun sometimes but effectively I'd only see the sun on weekends. Both the winters and summers were surreal, the days bled into one another. I don't miss it at all, though I wouldn't mind going back home for a week in the middle of winter just for the memory jog.