8 ms·

What gig workers can learn from romance writers

102 points by ohjeez 9y ago

rsbartram 9y ago
The GIG economy is growing bigger and bigger by the day. Here in Los Angeles it is thriving and companies like Fiverr are beginning centralize and localize events that support GIG workers and the economy. https://latechnews.org/los-angeles-gig-economy/ https://latechnews.org/los-angeles-gig-economy/
- zajd 9y ago
  California sounds more and more like a dystopian hellhole between the rampant homelessness, absurd economic inequality and now "events for GIG "workers"" > A GIG equals a freelancing job and thanks to technology you have ways to easily convert your skill set into a highly profitable revenue generating stream of income. just yikes
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  Is this the same Fiverr that supported the GIG (who's paying you to yell at me) workers by telling them to sacrifice their health to work? https://twitter.com/b_cavello/status/839876313473150976/ https://twitter.com/b_cavello/status/839876313473150976/ > Here in Los Angeles it is thriving It's thriving, huh? How about the workers themselves? Are they thriving, too? Or just the economy?
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    That ad is targeting the people who hire people on Fiverr. There are almost no Fiverr gig workers in San Francisco.
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      None of the "you" pronouns there seem to be aimed at Fiverr consumers.
      - ggg9990 9y ago
        They are. I’ve seen this bus stop ad. They are targeting SF entrepreneurs who need help with video production / logos / design / etc.
brndnmtthws 9y ago
Slightly off topic, but I don't have a lot of sympathy. If you want health care, vote for it or move to a country that has it. If you want a job that provides insurance, acquire the skills you need to get the job. People need to stop blaming externalities for what is entirely the realm of their own personal sphere of influence.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  I'll just pop over to the skill fountain and scoop some up. Can I get you anything while I'm out?
  - brndnmtthws 9y ago
    Skills aren't handed out, you acquire them by learning which is something you can only do for yourself.
    - dv_dt 9y ago
      Software engineers have it pretty easy in terms of low costs for skill acquisition, but in many other areas it's just not going to be something you can do yourself. If you want to become a machinist, you're going to have to have access to a machine shop. Not impossible, but a higher bar than acquiring a computer to learn how to program. So society has to end up participating in mapping together skills acquisition and the various resources needed to actually acquire the skill.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
      Which entirely ignores all the systemic issues that make it easy for, say, a boy growing up in a middle class household to learn programming but make it very difficult for the boy in a poor household. Or how it's not just skills that are important to getting 'above' gig work but credentials as well. We are not free agents, wading through a thin meritocracy, we are agents anchored by our circumstances, trying to swim through mud.
      - 9y ago
pavel_lishin 9y ago
I wonder how much of a writer's success is balanced between being a good writer, and a good marketer. How much give is there? If your prose is excellent but you're bad at getting your book in front of eyeballs, you'll almost certainly fail - but how bad can you be as an author, while still making money by being a better salesperson?
- runevault 9y ago
  Prose is very little indication of success, sadly. Some of it is marketing, but some of it is just hitting a moment in time. Look at Fifty Shades of Grey, the prose is terrible, but a lot of women needed what it was offering them on an emotional level and so it sold a TON of copies. And then once a book hits a certain critical mass people will start to pick it up who aren't the target audience just to see what the hell the buzz is about.
  - ddorian43 9y ago
    Doesn't that, like, happens frequently with women (movie, book, like fashion or something) ? Or do dudes the same thing. Maybe it just felt natural for me being a dude.
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      > Or do dudes the same thing. I don't know about you, but I binge read something like fifty Star Trek novels when I was a kid because that's what the library had. That was once I ran out of the other shitty sci-fi on offer, because I'd already read all the Asimov three times over. I think we think of women as doing this more because men tend to be employed more often than women, and once the kids are old enough to become self-sufficient - and/or shipped off to school - homemakers of both genders get more downtime to sit down and read.
      - runevault 9y ago
        Yeah a non-trivial portion of the Romance market is stay at home moms who have down time while the kids are at school (obviously not all day with cooking/cleaning/etc) and they will read multiple books a week commonly. And on the guys front, plenty of guys read cheap thrillers that are all about explosions and blood without much prose behind them.
amsilprotag 9y ago
How much of the genre's success can we attribute to an inclusive culture? I would guess it may have helped level out the income curve - a $10,000 median annual income is higher than I would have guessed for a saturated, hit-based industry. But in terms of aggregate genre growth, I think the Kindle and iBooks/Audible helped much more. Seeing the three-fold increase in romance author income coupled with the halving of other authors' income from 2008 to 2014 suggests that readers really altered their preferences to avoid being seen with a physical romance novel. It feels like a similar phenomenon occurred with scifi/fantasy, judging by the audible best seller list. https://www.audible.com/adblbestsellers https://www.audible.com/adblbestsellers
- runevault 9y ago
  I think it is specifically self publishing, as I'm pretty sure almost all if not all of the increase in romance writers breaking 6 figures is with some amount of self publishing in their stable. Many romance houses (Harlequin etc) famously don't pay a ton to their writers outside a few big names, but when you can charge $2.99 to self publish a book and get $2 of that, that can generate a TON of income really quickly. Especially if you can put out 3-4 of those books a year.
- neaden 9y ago
  "suggests that readers really altered their preferences to avoid being seen with a physical romance novel" I don't think that is necessarily what is happening, at least not primarily. People who read romance novels tend to read a lot of them, so I think that simply reducing the friction of purchase and allowing you to buy it and then immediately read it has more to do with the appeal.
- joe_the_user 9y ago
  a $10,000 median annual income is higher than I would have guessed for a saturated, hit-based industry. I suspect the only reason this income is listed that entirely failed writers aren't included. And I suspect there are more failed (or "aspiring") writers with zero income than all the successful writers put together. The article's only story is that successful romance writers are getting substantially more than they used to (it seems demand for romance novels has increased for cultural or cyclical reasons). But trying to be writer is a less reliable way to survive than an average sketchy gig where you get paid on a semi-regular basis. The whole thing is in the "they made it, why can't you" genre.
keenerd 9y ago
> Three practices set romance writers up for success: they welcome newcomers, they share competitive information and they ask advice from newbies. That last one is interesting. People entering a field do so for a reason. It might just be to do a job and get paid, but it could also be because no one is making what they want. Newbies unconsciously represent gaps in the market where someone with better execution could make a killing. Brb, got to dive beginner programming forums and look at the types of projects that are so pressing that someone is willing to learn how to program.
- Balgair 9y ago
  Wow, great idea! In relation to HN, there is also the noob-submissions section: https://news.ycombinator.com/noobstories https://news.ycombinator.com/noobstories

102 points by ohjeez 9y ago

The GIG economy is growing bigger and bigger by the day. Here in Los Angeles it is thriving and companies like Fiverr are beginning centralize and localize events that support GIG workers and the economy. https://latechnews.org/los-angeles-gig-economy/ https://latechnews.org/los-angeles-gig-economy/

zajd 9y ago
California sounds more and more like a dystopian hellhole between the rampant homelessness, absurd economic inequality and now "events for GIG "workers"" > A GIG equals a freelancing job and thanks to technology you have ways to easily convert your skill set into a highly profitable revenue generating stream of income. just yikes
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
pavel_lishin 9y ago
Is this the same Fiverr that supported the GIG (who's paying you to yell at me) workers by telling them to sacrifice their health to work? https://twitter.com/b_cavello/status/839876313473150976/ https://twitter.com/b_cavello/status/839876313473150976/ > Here in Los Angeles it is thriving It's thriving, huh? How about the workers themselves? Are they thriving, too? Or just the economy?
- ggg9990 9y ago
  That ad is targeting the people who hire people on Fiverr. There are almost no Fiverr gig workers in San Francisco.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    None of the "you" pronouns there seem to be aimed at Fiverr consumers.
    - ggg9990 9y ago
      They are. I’ve seen this bus stop ad. They are targeting SF entrepreneurs who need help with video production / logos / design / etc.

brndnmtthws 9y ago

Slightly off topic, but I don't have a lot of sympathy. If you want health care, vote for it or move to a country that has it. If you want a job that provides insurance, acquire the skills you need to get the job. People need to stop blaming externalities for what is entirely the realm of their own personal sphere of influence.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
I'll just pop over to the skill fountain and scoop some up. Can I get you anything while I'm out?
- brndnmtthws 9y ago
  Skills aren't handed out, you acquire them by learning which is something you can only do for yourself.
  - dv_dt 9y ago
    Software engineers have it pretty easy in terms of low costs for skill acquisition, but in many other areas it's just not going to be something you can do yourself. If you want to become a machinist, you're going to have to have access to a machine shop. Not impossible, but a higher bar than acquiring a computer to learn how to program. So society has to end up participating in mapping together skills acquisition and the various resources needed to actually acquire the skill.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    Which entirely ignores all the systemic issues that make it easy for, say, a boy growing up in a middle class household to learn programming but make it very difficult for the boy in a poor household. Or how it's not just skills that are important to getting 'above' gig work but credentials as well. We are not free agents, wading through a thin meritocracy, we are agents anchored by our circumstances, trying to swim through mud.
    - 9y ago

pavel_lishin 9y ago

I wonder how much of a writer's success is balanced between being a good writer, and a good marketer. How much give is there? If your prose is excellent but you're bad at getting your book in front of eyeballs, you'll almost certainly fail - but how bad can you be as an author, while still making money by being a better salesperson?

runevault 9y ago
Prose is very little indication of success, sadly. Some of it is marketing, but some of it is just hitting a moment in time. Look at Fifty Shades of Grey, the prose is terrible, but a lot of women needed what it was offering them on an emotional level and so it sold a TON of copies. And then once a book hits a certain critical mass people will start to pick it up who aren't the target audience just to see what the hell the buzz is about.
- ddorian43 9y ago
  Doesn't that, like, happens frequently with women (movie, book, like fashion or something) ? Or do dudes the same thing. Maybe it just felt natural for me being a dude.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    > Or do dudes the same thing. I don't know about you, but I binge read something like fifty Star Trek novels when I was a kid because that's what the library had. That was once I ran out of the other shitty sci-fi on offer, because I'd already read all the Asimov three times over. I think we think of women as doing this more because men tend to be employed more often than women, and once the kids are old enough to become self-sufficient - and/or shipped off to school - homemakers of both genders get more downtime to sit down and read.
    - runevault 9y ago
      Yeah a non-trivial portion of the Romance market is stay at home moms who have down time while the kids are at school (obviously not all day with cooking/cleaning/etc) and they will read multiple books a week commonly. And on the guys front, plenty of guys read cheap thrillers that are all about explosions and blood without much prose behind them.

amsilprotag 9y ago

How much of the genre's success can we attribute to an inclusive culture? I would guess it may have helped level out the income curve - a $10,000 median annual income is higher than I would have guessed for a saturated, hit-based industry. But in terms of aggregate genre growth, I think the Kindle and iBooks/Audible helped much more. Seeing the three-fold increase in romance author income coupled with the halving of other authors' income from 2008 to 2014 suggests that readers really altered their preferences to avoid being seen with a physical romance novel. It feels like a similar phenomenon occurred with scifi/fantasy, judging by the audible best seller list. https://www.audible.com/adblbestsellers https://www.audible.com/adblbestsellers

runevault 9y ago
I think it is specifically self publishing, as I'm pretty sure almost all if not all of the increase in romance writers breaking 6 figures is with some amount of self publishing in their stable. Many romance houses (Harlequin etc) famously don't pay a ton to their writers outside a few big names, but when you can charge $2.99 to self publish a book and get $2 of that, that can generate a TON of income really quickly. Especially if you can put out 3-4 of those books a year.
neaden 9y ago
"suggests that readers really altered their preferences to avoid being seen with a physical romance novel" I don't think that is necessarily what is happening, at least not primarily. People who read romance novels tend to read a lot of them, so I think that simply reducing the friction of purchase and allowing you to buy it and then immediately read it has more to do with the appeal.
joe_the_user 9y ago
a $10,000 median annual income is higher than I would have guessed for a saturated, hit-based industry. I suspect the only reason this income is listed that entirely failed writers aren't included. And I suspect there are more failed (or "aspiring") writers with zero income than all the successful writers put together. The article's only story is that successful romance writers are getting substantially more than they used to (it seems demand for romance novels has increased for cultural or cyclical reasons). But trying to be writer is a less reliable way to survive than an average sketchy gig where you get paid on a semi-regular basis. The whole thing is in the "they made it, why can't you" genre.

keenerd 9y ago

> Three practices set romance writers up for success: they welcome newcomers, they share competitive information and they ask advice from newbies. That last one is interesting. People entering a field do so for a reason. It might just be to do a job and get paid, but it could also be because no one is making what they want. Newbies unconsciously represent gaps in the market where someone with better execution could make a killing. Brb, got to dive beginner programming forums and look at the types of projects that are so pressing that someone is willing to learn how to program.

Balgair 9y ago
Wow, great idea! In relation to HN, there is also the noob-submissions section: https://news.ycombinator.com/noobstories https://news.ycombinator.com/noobstories