5 ms·

Beyond the Beme platform itself, I'm greatly troubled by this SV notion that you can crowdsource objectivity, as if we have ever received a rational analysis fr

Beyond the Beme platform itself, I'm greatly troubled by this SV notion that you can crowdsource objectivity, as if we have ever received a rational analysis from a mob. Recent developments, like Facebook's decision to let its users determine what is and isn't factual (what is essentially Beme's advertised product), will lead to sanctioned groupthink.

Robotbeat 9y ago
Not only that, but because Facebook is an online platform, they'll be fighting not only typical online security threats, but mass bot/troll campaigns to influence the result.
- fortythirteen 9y ago
  I think there's a greater threat from using "bots" as an easy excuse to silence opinions the network's owners don't agree with. Taking a small subsection of a group and painting it as the majority is one of the oldest disinformation tactics.
  - kirRoyale 9y ago
    bingo.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    Taking a small subsection of a group and painting it as the majority AKA stereotype
amelius 9y ago
Perhaps you can identify individuals who are "usually right". And from there do the filtering.
- fortythirteen 9y ago
  "Usually right" by who's standard? You would require individual arbitrators to determine what's correct, and at that point, why do crowdsourcing?
  - poiu0978 9y ago
    Oh climb off. You're coming to conclusions based on too little in that comment to make any. Perhaps they meant "Usually right from the perspective of the individual doing the picking and choosing." But you jump straight to "AUTHORITARIAN POWER WILL CRUSH USSSS!" If you're interested in history, who is "usually right" and add them to your list of follows. Is it cars? Who do you agree with?
  - amelius 9y ago
    > "Usually right" by who's standard By the standard of the person you are showing the news to. C.f.: collaborative filtering. Or how Netflix recommends movies.
    - IntronExon 9y ago
      Congratulations, you’ve just invented the echo chamber.
    - ivanhoe 9y ago
      So people who at some point liked enough anti-vaxers posts to cross the threshold will never ever see any article presenting the facts that prove it's not true? And beside why would you want to serve users only the things that they agree with? It's not good for them, just makes them more stupid & easier targets for disinformation, but it's not good for Facebook neither because people love arguing online and cutting it down means also cutting the user interaction with the platform too.
- poiu0978 9y ago
  That's my process, which has pretty much resulted in mainly reading scholarly publications from working scientists/researchers/philosophers (as opposed to NDT/Michio sorts; smart fellows, but not really producing new physics). Outside STEM it's just "culture" which, for me, has never held my attention for long. My mind seems to abstract it all into "Dopamine hit only, almost always lacking any truly new utility." Internet celebrity seems even more superfluous to me than Hollywood. Now we have average joes peddling randomness at us en masse. Cause that's exactly what we need more of; noise.
root_axis 9y ago
> Recent developments, like Facebook's decision to let its users determine what is and isn't factual (what is essentially Beme's advertised product), will lead to sanctioned groupthink. It doesn't really matter. Groupthink is already "sanctioned" by the group. If something gets flagged as "non-factual" it will just embolden all the supporters of that thing.
- rhizome 9y ago
  Even if so, does that mean it's a good idea to use it as a profit center?
  - root_axis 9y ago
    A good idea for what? I just think it doesn't really matter.
misterbowfinger 9y ago
The "Surprisingly Popular Vote" actually works quite well: - http://news.mit.edu/2017/algorithm-better-wisdom-crowds-0125 http://news.mit.edu/2017/algorithm-better-wisdom-crowds-0125 - https://www.princeton.edu/news/2017/02/06/crowd-wisdom-surprisingly-popular-answer-can-trump-ignorance-masses https://www.princeton.edu/news/2017/02/06/crowd-wisdom-surpr... Although it seems like there needs to be more research on the boundary cases
- owenversteeg 9y ago
  Are there people that actually want to implement "Surprisingly Popular" for voting in political candidates? It seems useful for things like finding the correct answer to a factual question, but I have no idea how it would work in politics.
  - misterbowfinger 9y ago
    It's less about politics than it is about the "wisdom of the crowds". For example, it'd be really useful to get info from traders if they have special information about how the market will move.

Robotbeat 9y ago

Not only that, but because Facebook is an online platform, they'll be fighting not only typical online security threats, but mass bot/troll campaigns to influence the result.

fortythirteen 9y ago
I think there's a greater threat from using "bots" as an easy excuse to silence opinions the network's owners don't agree with. Taking a small subsection of a group and painting it as the majority is one of the oldest disinformation tactics.
- kirRoyale 9y ago
  bingo.
- rhizome 9y ago
  Taking a small subsection of a group and painting it as the majority AKA stereotype

amelius 9y ago

Perhaps you can identify individuals who are "usually right". And from there do the filtering.

fortythirteen 9y ago
"Usually right" by who's standard? You would require individual arbitrators to determine what's correct, and at that point, why do crowdsourcing?
- poiu0978 9y ago
  Oh climb off. You're coming to conclusions based on too little in that comment to make any. Perhaps they meant "Usually right from the perspective of the individual doing the picking and choosing." But you jump straight to "AUTHORITARIAN POWER WILL CRUSH USSSS!" If you're interested in history, who is "usually right" and add them to your list of follows. Is it cars? Who do you agree with?
- amelius 9y ago
  > "Usually right" by who's standard By the standard of the person you are showing the news to. C.f.: collaborative filtering. Or how Netflix recommends movies.
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    Congratulations, you’ve just invented the echo chamber.
  - ivanhoe 9y ago
    So people who at some point liked enough anti-vaxers posts to cross the threshold will never ever see any article presenting the facts that prove it's not true? And beside why would you want to serve users only the things that they agree with? It's not good for them, just makes them more stupid & easier targets for disinformation, but it's not good for Facebook neither because people love arguing online and cutting it down means also cutting the user interaction with the platform too.
poiu0978 9y ago
That's my process, which has pretty much resulted in mainly reading scholarly publications from working scientists/researchers/philosophers (as opposed to NDT/Michio sorts; smart fellows, but not really producing new physics). Outside STEM it's just "culture" which, for me, has never held my attention for long. My mind seems to abstract it all into "Dopamine hit only, almost always lacking any truly new utility." Internet celebrity seems even more superfluous to me than Hollywood. Now we have average joes peddling randomness at us en masse. Cause that's exactly what we need more of; noise.

root_axis 9y ago

> Recent developments, like Facebook's decision to let its users determine what is and isn't factual (what is essentially Beme's advertised product), will lead to sanctioned groupthink. It doesn't really matter. Groupthink is already "sanctioned" by the group. If something gets flagged as "non-factual" it will just embolden all the supporters of that thing.

rhizome 9y ago
Even if so, does that mean it's a good idea to use it as a profit center?
- root_axis 9y ago
  A good idea for what? I just think it doesn't really matter.

misterbowfinger 9y ago

The "Surprisingly Popular Vote" actually works quite well: - http://news.mit.edu/2017/algorithm-better-wisdom-crowds-0125 http://news.mit.edu/2017/algorithm-better-wisdom-crowds-0125 - https://www.princeton.edu/news/2017/02/06/crowd-wisdom-surprisingly-popular-answer-can-trump-ignorance-masses https://www.princeton.edu/news/2017/02/06/crowd-wisdom-surpr... Although it seems like there needs to be more research on the boundary cases

owenversteeg 9y ago
Are there people that actually want to implement "Surprisingly Popular" for voting in political candidates? It seems useful for things like finding the correct answer to a factual question, but I have no idea how it would work in politics.
- misterbowfinger 9y ago
  It's less about politics than it is about the "wisdom of the crowds". For example, it'd be really useful to get info from traders if they have special information about how the market will move.