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Why I left Google (HN search results)
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agoI'm curious to see what kind of discussion this generates before the HN mods inevitably kick it off the front page. Most of these links seem to be of employees who quit, but I'll add my article as a user who quit: https://drewdevault.com/2016/11/16/Getting-on-without-Google.html https://drewdevault.com/2016/11/16/Getting-on-without-Google...
- tbirrell 9y agoYour twitter link at the bottom of that article goes to an account suspended page.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agoI left Twitter, too. I can be found on Mastodon now: https://cmpwn.com/@sir https://cmpwn.com/@sir I'll update the article, thanks!
- stochastic_monk 9y agoMastodon as a social network makes me happy because it brings to mind the prior glory of Leviathan and Blood Mountain. ... And then I remember why I stopped using social networks (besides github) years ago.
- romanovcode 9y agoNot using google is much simpler then it sounds. - iPhone - DDG - Firefox/Safari - Some other email then google That's pretty much all you need.
- freehunter 9y agoYup. The only Google product that I've found hard to replace as someone who frequently needs to semi-coherently communicate in a foreign language is Google Translate. Google Translate still is far from perfect, but it's a decent enough check on my spelling and grammar, but it's lightyears ahead of any competition I've found so far.
- JanLaussmann 9y agohttps://www.deepl.com/translator https://www.deepl.com/translator is amazing, maybe even better than Google translate.
- freehunter 9y agoExcellent, I haven't tried this one. I'll give it a shot, thanks!
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agoStarted typing some Japanese in there and it detected French! Then I noticed that it only supports a small handful of languages. I have to admit I use Google Translate too, though it's often pretty bad at translating Japanese.
- Zhyl 9y agoThat reminds me of the TED talk [0] Luis von Ahn did when he announced duolingo. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ht4qiDRZE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ht4qiDRZE8
- mmq 9y agoIt's a great product, I stopped using google translate when I discovered this one. The translation is much better, more accurate IMO.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agoApple is just a different walled garden, albiet one with better privacy tools.
- lunorian 9y agoBut I love Google - I trade them my privacy and they give me tools that let me be lazy.
- tahw 9y agoOh my god your youtube flow is GENIUS. I am extremely excited about trying it. How did you choose mpv?
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agoIt's just the best option. I was recently about ready to fork it, actually, but the political problems upstream were fixed and it returned to being the best option.
- seanopedia 9y agoAre the mods fairly well known for manipulating negative Google posts on the front page?
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agoNot necessarily negative Google posts, but meta-posts for sure. And it turns out I was right: https://hn.0x2237.club/post/16231658 https://hn.0x2237.club/post/16231658
- raister 9y agoAs if anybody would disclose the actual reason why they have left Google...
- theDoug 9y agoI gets attention, and forces Google to be yet again needlessly seen as an exception to the rest of the work-world, where leaving an employer to find work closer to your interests is natural and expected. Would love to tab through a collection of the reasons the last 10-20 people left any particular company, and I believe we'd still likely fare far better in appearance and substance. (Disclosure: I work at Google)
- camelCaseOfBeer 9y agoI would imagine a company like Google would have the foresight to include clauses in their NDA that forbid former employees from including the kind of specific and substantive reasoning for their departure that the public might actually find interesting. Not to mention a severance package goes a long way as far as taming that salty post-employment flavor. Oh, and there's the small matter of fact that they tend to pay well. I can only assume these factor into a lot into the standard reason being, "it's kinda personal but I felt like I'd be happier doing something different." Wow, what a revelation...
- kevingadd 9y agoMan, I wish they actually offered departing staff severance and an NDA. Maybe if you're a VP. I know VPs who get booted out for sexual harassment get to keep their stock.
- walshemj 9y agoSex harassment cases are hard to prove it's often a case of he said she said and hr (and the employee side) have to be very careful to be scrupulously fair and not jump to conclusions. So its often easier to settle - this is true for those harassed being brave enough to go public and possibly be cross examined by a £2k a day barrister is a nontrivial thing to do.
- reificator 9y ago> Why I left Google for a Bitcoin startup - 4 years ago - 0 comments > 404 page not found
- reificator 9y ago(Here's the archive link) http://archive.is/9gTnd http://archive.is/9gTnd
- AlexCoventry 9y agoHis reasoning seems to have stood the test of time pretty well.
- shrikant 9y agoIt's here now: https://www.digitaldrex.com/single-post/2014/07/08/Why-I-left-Google-for-a-Bitcoin-Startup https://www.digitaldrex.com/single-post/2014/07/08/Why-I-lef...
- fastball 9y agoThe Medium post probably has better longevity: https://medium.com/@DigitalDrex/why-i-left-google-for-a-bitcoin-startup-f5b7a8406751 https://medium.com/@DigitalDrex/why-i-left-google-for-a-bitc...
- quotemstr 9y agoWouldn't it be nice if there were some "Previously-Known-By" HTTP header or meta tag? This way, upon seeing an NXDOMAIN or a 404, browsers could ask $SEARCHENGINE, "Hey. Find me any page advertising that it was previously known by $URL", and browsers could then offer to redirect the user to that new location.
- reificator 9y agoGoing the other direction is fairly easy, if you retain control over the original page, you can help people/search engines find the new page via the following: * Meta refresh tags: `<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0; url=http://example.com/" http://example.com/" />` * HTTP Status codes `301` and `302` * Canonical link tags: `<link rel="canonical" href="http://www.example.com/"/>` http://www.example.com/"/>`
- jamisteven 9y ago“Look at me Look at me!!!”
- ronilan 9y ago“Look at me I am old but I’m happy” https://youtu.be/yJDHkjXBtcU https://youtu.be/yJDHkjXBtcU
- y3sh 9y agoTldr politics, glass ceilings, re-orgs, purposeless/abandoned projects. As a former Googler, I can see why people post these: internally Google is hyper-evangelized as the best place to work ever (why would you work anywhere else). When leaving, its a necessary step to form a good argument for yourself as to why you've decided to go against the culture. The personal spin makes it an interesting read.
- b4lancesh33t 9y agoYeah I've been at Google a decade and I strongly don't agree with the notion that it's hyper evangelized as the best place to work. In official communications, yes, but I think most people here are aware of the drawbacks and problems. Maybe even a little too aware. Internal lists are rife with the discussions of even the slightest deviation from perfect execution on the part of management, product teams, the culture, etc. That's not to say there's no one here with rose tinted goggles, but I think most people have their eyes open.
- rleigh 9y agoWhen I interviewed with Google, the over-the-top "Google is the best place to work evaaar" attitudes I got from the majority of people I interacted with gave me the distinct impression that it was like some bizarre cult. Most of them were so green they likely hadn't had any other job, so were unlikely to be able to know how silly they appeared to me (having worked for several companies in very different fields).
- puzzle 9y agoWhen I was at Google, some of us actually noticed that employees for which it was their first job sometimes complained more than the others ("zeroth world problems": they switched to smaller plates and trays) and had no idea how much worse it was elsewhere. You'll probably find a mix of everything.
- davidcbc 9y agoWhat recruiter has ever said "This is just an ok place to work?" Every job I've had the people I've interacted with in recruiting/interviews have all been very positive about the company.
- corobo 9y agoIf you do the same for Facebook it's all users no longer using Facebook rather than employees no longer working there
- reificator 9y agoThat's because Facebook is a network and you leave networks. Google is a set of services and you quit services.
- freehunter 9y agoYeah, when you leave Facebook, you're leaving a lot. You're not just stopping using a piece of software, it's more like you're giving up relationships, you're giving up a piece of your social life. For better or worse, you're probably going to miss something when you stop using Facebook, so there is a tradeoff that needs to be made. You're changing your social contract. It's a big deal. Meanwhile when you stop using Google products... no one notices. No one cares. It's a completely personal decision. I stopped using Google products one by one when I found competitors I liked better and absolutely no one knows and no one asks because no one cares. I can still email Gmail users and they'll never know. I can send someone an address that I got from Apple Maps and they can open it in Google Maps just fine. If they send me a Google Maps link, I can open it in Google Maps because I don't need an account and a profile and a friends list first. I can use Bing or DDG and no one notices. It's a really big deal to stop using Facebook. It's a really big deal to stop working at Google. In both cases you're losing some part of your social identity. Not the case when you're stopping using Google products.
- scottlocklin 9y agoI don't miss a thing from quitting facebook, and despite how addictive the damn thing is, it was easily done and my quality of life increased in obvious ways. Potemkin relationships are not relationships.
- harlanji 9y ago
- lettergram 9y agoIt was actually interesting to read some of these. Most of them seemed to have really been turned off by the culture or the morals of what they were / are doing.
- SFjulie1 9y agoThe "why I left google" brand seems to be more beneficial in terms of reputation and monetization than google itself. Bad time for google who pays already its employees a lot compared to the rest of the market.
- tsrbo 9y agoIt's not about leaving google. It's about algolia stupid.
- dvnguyen 9y agoI'm quite happy with algolia. Can you elaborate more?
- tsrbo 9y agoNo, nothing against it. It's my first time with Algolia and I am mightily impressed. Just blurted out some nonsense seeing the crowd go the other way. Apparently, it has been covered on hacker news many times before already.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- amelius 9y agoContrast this with: "Why I joined Google" https://hn.algolia.com/?query=why%20i%20joined%20google&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=why%20i%20joined%20google&sort...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- havetocharge 9y agoYou are focusing on the loud minority and ignoring the silent majority.
- nilkn 9y agoMaybe it's just that it's interesting and useful to look at why folks have left a workplace that is otherwise hyped up as the best place to work in the industry. We hear plenty about Google being a great place to work. We don't hear so much about why people move on from it.
- havetocharge 9y agoMost people who leave Google also do so silently, and for same reasons as people leave other companies -- retirement, health, politics, better pay. It's those who choose to trumpet their cause get the most attention though, and it is representative only of their personalities, rather than the workplace.
- ProAm 9y agoTo be fair that is all media and journalism.
- nerfhammer 9y agosilent groups aren't listened to by definition
- havetocharge 9y agoMuch can be said about reading between the lines.
- viach 9y agoInteresting, there are 39 pages for "why I left" vs 8 pages "why I joined". This is because bad news are always more popular, I suppose.
- horsecaptin 9y agoPeople have more time to write after they quit ;)
- whamlastxmas 9y agoOr the reasons for joining are obvious and not interesting.
- Zhyl 9y agoAnd have been since the beginning. The relevant XKCD [0] is from 2006. [0] https://xkcd.com/192/ https://xkcd.com/192/
- minimaxir 9y agoI incidentally made the same search yesterday because I had the same question regarding the tone, in light of how the most recent viral post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16220666 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16220666) utterly slams Google. Unless there's corporate malfeasance, it's counterproductive in the long run to talk so badly about a former employer, especially on a forever-archived blog post. Even if it does feel good to let out pent-up thoughts. When I wrote a blog post about leaving Apple (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14270897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14270897), I made a conscious effort to be objective with the rationale why I left (to grow my technical skills), and not emotionally judge Apple as a company (I still strongly support Apple).
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoWhen Yegge made his infamous platforms rant, he was clearly hoping to convey (internally, to other Googlers) important criticism on Google's mistakes, which is a productive conversation to have. I have seen a lot of tweets in particular from Google employees that can only be described as 'butthurt' regarding this blog post... but if, with any luck, the right Googlers read his post, with a little self-reflection, "slamming" Google might be good for Google. Because like any other company, Google could change, and could improve. And this is hardly a slam, he still specifies that he believes it is basically the best place to work, and his follow-up post provides a bit more context to the main quote from the previous blog.
- ChuckMcM 9y agoSteve sees systems so when he describes problems he describes them using language that describes systems. And as his take on the challenge Google faces is largely similar to that of many others (including myself), I don't think it will hurt him to have this out there "forever."
- curtis 9y agoOn a somewhat related note, I have found Algolia to be an effective way to search for popular stories that got flagged. Once or twice a day I go to hn.algolia.com and view popular stories for the last 24 hours. This is also an effective way to review popular stories for the last day, whether they got flagged or not. Since Algolia is using a much simpler ranking than the Hacker News front page, you get a much more stable view, which is a nice alternative to submissions flying up and down on the front page at various speeds.
- softawre 9y agoAnother site that does this well: I always review the top10 for days that I was too busy to check into HN. https://hckrnews.com/ https://hckrnews.com/
- eitland 9y agoI've been using http://hckrnews.com/ http://hckrnews.com/ for the last few months. It surprises me how many interesting stories get flagged off the front page. Edit: beaten by softawre
- bonesss 9y agobeaten by softawre That's going on my tombstone...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- DoreenMichele 9y agoWhen I worked at Aflac, it was the largest civilian employer in Columbus, GA. It had the tallest building in town. If I made small talk while getting a haircut or buying lunch in town, people would ooh and aah that I had a job there. This was a little funny and surreal because I could not get promoted out of my entry level job. I felt like a loser, yet here were people acting like I'm not worthy. When I quit, I left town and began doing freelance work. If I had stayed in town or transferred to a different job at a smaller company, I might have felt compelled to justify my decision to leave. I probably would have gotten a lot of social push back and inquiries as to why on earth I would do such a thing. I imagine most of these posts are written partly for that reason. It cuts back on being asked in the first place and then you can email the link the next 20 times you are asked. Plus, it is free therapy, among other things.
- saalweachter 9y agoI think this is accentuated because for a lot of people, when you move across the country right after college to work at a big company like Google, it becomes your life. Early on, you don't know anyone and you spend way too much time working because that's what you do when you're fresh out of college new hire in a new town. As time goes on, most of the friends you make are friends from work and even if you get a pretty healthy work-life balance, a lot of your free time is spent hanging out with your friends from work. So when the time comes for you to leave the company, you aren't just leaving the company, you're leaving your entire life. It's the life change of leaving your job, getting divorced, and moving to a new town all rolled into one: it is one of the most significant events in your life, and you can't not think about it and try to understand it and explain it to other people.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- mattgreenrocks 9y agoThe whole "work is life" thing is pretty weird, and I'm ambitious. Life has lots of interesting things that have nothing to do with JavaScript, why would you waste your youth on yet another JS framework? I somewhat regret the large amounts of time I put into my side projects when I was young (20s). They definitely produced results in my career, but I'm uncertain if they provided that much of a boost. From my vantage point, you can get along quite well by latching on to a bandwagon and networking, rather than working so hard.
- ChuckMcM 9y agoThere was a tool at Google called 'percent' that you could run that would tell you what percent of the employees had joined Google after you (some measure of gravitas was associated with people who had been there 'a long time'). It was not surprising that Google hired a lot of people, there were like 50 people in my 'noogler' class. But the number of people reported as working at Google did not go up at a similar rate. When you did the math it was pretty clear there are many people who spend a relatively short amount of time there. As a result I'm a bit surprised that there aren't even more of these stories. At lunch one day the topic came up and we joked it would be interesting if engineers could earn medals (similar to the ones in the military) for each company they worked for. It would make for an interesting fashion accessory.
- jvolkman 9y agoAt Amazon it was called the "old fart tool".
- samlittlewood 9y agoMedals - I think linkedin approached this?
- nitrogen 9y agoIt would make for an interesting fashion accessory. Best available alternative: wear tshirt from company A with jacket from company B and backpack from company C
- ChuckMcM 9y agoOoh I like this idea, and I think I can pull it off with all dead companies, making for a dead company terducken :-)
- AstralStorm 9y agoDon't forget to put in a sign "I didn't kill these companies." ;)
- supergirl 9y agonice plug
- rburhum 9y agoIt almost makes me want to write an article that says "why I have zero interest in working at Google"
- mrb 9y agoWith all due respect, it sounds like your article would be full of pre-conceived ideas since you have never worked at Google. At least those who quit have lived it and know for themselves. (And someone else's experience might be quite different if he had been in that person's shoes.)
- matte_black 9y agoWhat makes you think his lack of interest has anything to do with Google? He might have more interesting opportunities to pursue. I don't want to work at Google simply because I don't want to work that hard.
- rburhum 9y agoWell, this is where you are wrong. I have worked in the core team at several multi-billion dollar companies (e.g. Microsoft, NVIDIA, etc) and have received job offers to lead teams from other similar companies (including the one you mention and one of their fiercest competitor). With all due the respect, your assumption that it would be full of pre-concieved ideas is simply wrong. I just have anti-bodies that fully reject the Kool-Aid and the cult-level fanboyism that is so common around these companies.
- baseethrowaway 9y agoSo, you indeed have never worked at Google.
- freyir 9y ago>> you have never worked at Google > this is where you are wrong So, have you ever worked at Google?
- mrb 9y ago
- yuhong 9y agoMy favorite is Eric Schmidt leaving after https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-schmidt-google-new-america.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-schmidt-...
- debt 9y agoRegardless, I think working at a mega-tech-corp like any in the valley are immensely important. It shows you immediately that software is built by bureaucracy. Many large projects are in fact built that way; you have to collaborate with many teams.
- dpflan 9y agoWould this be useful to analyze the posters' sentiments and reasons while knowing what products / divisions they worked on / for and their position at G?
- tompetry 9y ago“First, I do not sit down at my desk to put into verse something that is already clear in my mind. If it were clear in my mind, I should have no incentive or need to write about it. We do not write in order to be understood; we write in order to understand.” ― Cecil Day-Lewis
- webXL 9y agoWow, there have only been 74 recorded instances of people leaving Google. Some even two or three times! /s
- woodandsteel 9y agoLots of people here talking about what it is like to work at Google or other companies. I am puzzled that nobody is talking about the author's claim that Google has lost the ability to innovate and is not focused on users any more. Is he right or wrong?