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Apple is storing the data in China, but it's completely unclear if they're just storing opaque encrypted blobs (which would be my guess). Further, it makes com

Apple is storing the data in China, but it's completely unclear if they're just storing opaque encrypted blobs (which would be my guess). Further, it makes complete sense to store Chinese user data in China, where it's subject to Chinese law and not American law.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
Is the data transmitted from the phone in a format that Apple has the means (without grabbing further keys) to decrypt? Is there any reason, except commercial exploitation of the data, one would do that? So, ... I'd guess if the data never leaves your device unencrypted then Apple are clean, otherwise ...
- DonaldPShimoda 9y ago
  > Is the data transmitted from the phone in a format that Apple has the means (without grabbing further keys) to decrypt? I don't know for certain, but based on how Apple handles other sensitive user data I would hazard a guess of "no". Apple makes their money selling devices, not user data, so they tend to choose to implement solutions that protect user privacy first. (I am not claiming that this is always the case, nor am I claiming that they do not make any money from user data, but they do handle privacy very differently from the other major corporations.)
  - icantdrive55 9y ago
    Now--when they are fat & happy. What will happen when people, like myself, refuse to buy their pricy products. Yes--today they are trustworthy, or that's the image they cultivate. Who know what tomorrow will bring. (Personally--we need strict government regulations on our data. I don't think those in charge can even comprehend what safeguards we need. And yes--Europe is going in the right direction, while the all might America just listens to the Gods of tech, or our oblivious? I'm not picking on Apple. We have just let them all do to much with Our data.)
  - gurkendoktor 9y ago
    End-to-end encrypted data should be safe, but most iCloud services aren't that secure yet (I bet Health will be): https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
mankash666 9y ago
Cut the B.S. Google was asked to do the same with China, and they walked away with some dignity and authenticity left.
- urda 9y ago
  What are you talking about? Google bends over backwards to support China. I would hope that this comment is not informing you for the first time that the Great Firewall [1] exists and Google China [2] happily complies just like Apple, that is how law works. Where are you getting this idea of "walked away with some dignity and authenticity left"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    Google did leave, but then they went back https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/why-google-quit-china-and-why-its-heading-back/424482/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/why-g...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    Google China is outside the Great Firewall and is therefore both not subject to Chinese censorship rules and subject to getting blocked by the Great Firewall. That's the key distinction. Since Apple operates inside the Great Firewall, they have to do what the Chinese government asks.
- sbuk 9y ago
  Like they did with PRISM?
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    You clearly don't know what PRISM is, believing Greenwald's laughably inaccurate description. Go look at the slide.
mankash666 9y ago
However they store data, of the Chinese government cannot access it, Apple's in violation.
- saagarjha 9y ago
  Of what?
  - mankash666 9y ago
    Chinese law. If you want to sell in China, hardware or software, the government needs to be able to read data. Period. You can throw whatever fit, ethics, morals, yada yada, but China gives two full fucks for privacy, etc. Give data or get the fuck out of China. It applies to Chinese citizens/residents.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago

Is the data transmitted from the phone in a format that Apple has the means (without grabbing further keys) to decrypt? Is there any reason, except commercial exploitation of the data, one would do that? So, ... I'd guess if the data never leaves your device unencrypted then Apple are clean, otherwise ...

DonaldPShimoda 9y ago
> Is the data transmitted from the phone in a format that Apple has the means (without grabbing further keys) to decrypt? I don't know for certain, but based on how Apple handles other sensitive user data I would hazard a guess of "no". Apple makes their money selling devices, not user data, so they tend to choose to implement solutions that protect user privacy first. (I am not claiming that this is always the case, nor am I claiming that they do not make any money from user data, but they do handle privacy very differently from the other major corporations.)
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  Now--when they are fat & happy. What will happen when people, like myself, refuse to buy their pricy products. Yes--today they are trustworthy, or that's the image they cultivate. Who know what tomorrow will bring. (Personally--we need strict government regulations on our data. I don't think those in charge can even comprehend what safeguards we need. And yes--Europe is going in the right direction, while the all might America just listens to the Gods of tech, or our oblivious? I'm not picking on Apple. We have just let them all do to much with Our data.)
- gurkendoktor 9y ago
  End-to-end encrypted data should be safe, but most iCloud services aren't that secure yet (I bet Health will be): https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

mankash666 9y ago

Cut the B.S. Google was asked to do the same with China, and they walked away with some dignity and authenticity left.

urda 9y ago
What are you talking about? Google bends over backwards to support China. I would hope that this comment is not informing you for the first time that the Great Firewall [1] exists and Google China [2] happily complies just like Apple, that is how law works. Where are you getting this idea of "walked away with some dignity and authenticity left"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  Google did leave, but then they went back https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/why-google-quit-china-and-why-its-heading-back/424482/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/why-g...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Google China is outside the Great Firewall and is therefore both not subject to Chinese censorship rules and subject to getting blocked by the Great Firewall. That's the key distinction. Since Apple operates inside the Great Firewall, they have to do what the Chinese government asks.
sbuk 9y ago
Like they did with PRISM?
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  You clearly don't know what PRISM is, believing Greenwald's laughably inaccurate description. Go look at the slide.

mankash666 9y ago

However they store data, of the Chinese government cannot access it, Apple's in violation.

saagarjha 9y ago
Of what?
- mankash666 9y ago
  Chinese law. If you want to sell in China, hardware or software, the government needs to be able to read data. Period. You can throw whatever fit, ethics, morals, yada yada, but China gives two full fucks for privacy, etc. Give data or get the fuck out of China. It applies to Chinese citizens/residents.