7 ms·

The only way to stop labor practices that involve abusing workers, not paying a living wage or for healthcare, is to say (as a customer and voter) that you will

The only way to stop labor practices that involve abusing workers, not paying a living wage or for healthcare, is to say (as a customer and voter) that you will not tolerate this type of business existing. In other words, if company X can only deliver your low price pizza and Diet Coke via abuse of its workers, then that business should not exist. It's a hard leap to make for many people, but a necessary one.

barry-cotter 9y ago
This is a coordination problem, i.e. of the same general class as how to maintain a cartel or avoid a race to the bottom to the cost of producers and benefit of consumers in an oligopolistic market. To summarise; it can’t be done unless the cartel can make and enforce legal contracts divining the market or with more than three market participants. Same reason the bidders for Amazon HQ2 can’t collude; cooperation is really, really hard. You need an enforcement mechanism.
distances 9y ago
The burden to track company behaviour shouldn't be on customers. The normal way to counter this is via unions.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  It sounds like unions are the new Rust on Hacker News.
  - smacktoward 9y ago
    in both cases, it's unsurprising that when the status quo so obviously sucks as badly as it does that people go looking for alternatives.
  - 18pfsmt 9y ago
    I've got many friends in unions (e.g. pipefitters/welders) and based on the stories they tell me, unions need a 21st century reboot. They need a simple platform to organize/communicate digitally. Do you know of anything that exists like that?
    - Apocryphon 9y ago
      If only there was an industry that was good at building new communications platforms + revamping 20th century institutions.
    - distances 9y ago
      I feel there's a clear difference how people see unions in the US vs. in Europe. I don't have much insight in to the differences, but it would be nice to hear why that is so. I'm a proponent of strong unions with generally binding collective agreements (= collective agreements defining legally binding minimum terms for the whole industry), but I suppose the model won't work everywhere for one reason or another.
mantas 9y ago
Fun story... Major supermarkets in my country announced they're phasing out caged chicken eggs. Vast majority of feedback I saw so far is people pissed off cheapest eggs will be gone. Looks like there's agreement this is conspiracy to rip off customers. So yeah.. I doubt people could gang up on unsustainable businesses as long as they personally pay less.
- limaoscarjuliet 9y ago
  "We are pledging we are in the process of thinking about moving towards streamlining possible future transition to making 10% of <turn really lagre fonts on> EGGS CAGE FREE." Ok, not a direct quote from mayo bottle but you get the gist of it. Now the funny part, my better half has a hotel and restaurant. She has trouble working with good ingredients because people demand crap ones they are used to.
  - mantas 9y ago
    > Now the funny part, my better half has a hotel and restaurant. She has trouble working with good ingredients because people demand crap ones they are used to. That was my exact experience first time I bought high quality peanut butter. The oil had separated and stayed at the top. I thought something went wrong and I was ripped off. Took me some googling to realise that's what happens if the maker don't take away natural nuts oil and don't replace it with palm oil. Took me some time to adjust to natural no-unnecessary-additives jams too. Now cheap knockoffs taste like shit though. The overexposed taste is just too lame and lacks depth.
    - magic_beans 9y ago
      I always thought it was ridiculous that natural peanut butter has the disclaimer "oil will separate." I guess now I know why :) But nothing, NOTHING comes close to freshly blended peanut butter warm from those little blending machines at natural grocery stores or Whole foods.
mindcrime 9y ago
And for the workers for whom that "abuse" is better than the other options? If I have a choice between dying in the street of starvation, or working in a hot kitchen for $2.00 /hour, no healthcare, no breaks, etc., would you deny me that chance to make $2.00 / hour? If so, all I can say is "who the hell do you think you are?"
- davidcbc 9y ago
  As a society we shouldn't make people choose between the two. That's why we have things like a social safety net and minimum wage.

barry-cotter 9y ago

This is a coordination problem, i.e. of the same general class as how to maintain a cartel or avoid a race to the bottom to the cost of producers and benefit of consumers in an oligopolistic market. To summarise; it can’t be done unless the cartel can make and enforce legal contracts divining the market or with more than three market participants. Same reason the bidders for Amazon HQ2 can’t collude; cooperation is really, really hard. You need an enforcement mechanism.

distances 9y ago

The burden to track company behaviour shouldn't be on customers. The normal way to counter this is via unions.

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
It sounds like unions are the new Rust on Hacker News.
- smacktoward 9y ago
  in both cases, it's unsurprising that when the status quo so obviously sucks as badly as it does that people go looking for alternatives.
- 18pfsmt 9y ago
  I've got many friends in unions (e.g. pipefitters/welders) and based on the stories they tell me, unions need a 21st century reboot. They need a simple platform to organize/communicate digitally. Do you know of anything that exists like that?
  - Apocryphon 9y ago
    If only there was an industry that was good at building new communications platforms + revamping 20th century institutions.
  - distances 9y ago
    I feel there's a clear difference how people see unions in the US vs. in Europe. I don't have much insight in to the differences, but it would be nice to hear why that is so. I'm a proponent of strong unions with generally binding collective agreements (= collective agreements defining legally binding minimum terms for the whole industry), but I suppose the model won't work everywhere for one reason or another.

mantas 9y ago

Fun story... Major supermarkets in my country announced they're phasing out caged chicken eggs. Vast majority of feedback I saw so far is people pissed off cheapest eggs will be gone. Looks like there's agreement this is conspiracy to rip off customers. So yeah.. I doubt people could gang up on unsustainable businesses as long as they personally pay less.

limaoscarjuliet 9y ago
"We are pledging we are in the process of thinking about moving towards streamlining possible future transition to making 10% of <turn really lagre fonts on> EGGS CAGE FREE." Ok, not a direct quote from mayo bottle but you get the gist of it. Now the funny part, my better half has a hotel and restaurant. She has trouble working with good ingredients because people demand crap ones they are used to.
- mantas 9y ago
  > Now the funny part, my better half has a hotel and restaurant. She has trouble working with good ingredients because people demand crap ones they are used to. That was my exact experience first time I bought high quality peanut butter. The oil had separated and stayed at the top. I thought something went wrong and I was ripped off. Took me some googling to realise that's what happens if the maker don't take away natural nuts oil and don't replace it with palm oil. Took me some time to adjust to natural no-unnecessary-additives jams too. Now cheap knockoffs taste like shit though. The overexposed taste is just too lame and lacks depth.
  - magic_beans 9y ago
    I always thought it was ridiculous that natural peanut butter has the disclaimer "oil will separate." I guess now I know why :) But nothing, NOTHING comes close to freshly blended peanut butter warm from those little blending machines at natural grocery stores or Whole foods.

mindcrime 9y ago

And for the workers for whom that "abuse" is better than the other options? If I have a choice between dying in the street of starvation, or working in a hot kitchen for $2.00 /hour, no healthcare, no breaks, etc., would you deny me that chance to make $2.00 / hour? If so, all I can say is "who the hell do you think you are?"

davidcbc 9y ago
As a society we shouldn't make people choose between the two. That's why we have things like a social safety net and minimum wage.