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Zurich, along with London, has the highest salaries for development in Europe. You may need to work in a finance-related position, but you can make fairly big b

Zurich, along with London, has the highest salaries for development in Europe. You may need to work in a finance-related position, but you can make fairly big bucks.

jpatokal 9y ago
The one major non-finance option is Google, which has a large and growing engineering office there. https://careers.google.com/locations/zurich/ https://careers.google.com/locations/zurich/ Disclaimer: I work for Google, but not in ZRH.
- electricslpnsld 9y ago
  Apple also has an office in Zurich.
wil421 9y ago
The population of Zurich seems quite small to support a large amount of developers. Everyone here is comparing London, SF, and other places that have over 4 million more people. Zurich also has a high cost of living and well above any US cities.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 9y ago
  If you include rent (which is high but not as insane as in SF), it's comparable to SF: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=San+Francisco%2C+CA&country2=Switzerland&city2=Zurich https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
- m_mueller 9y ago
  Zurich can draw from around 1.6M people, which is its metropolitan area with >8.3% people commuting to the center. So yeah, >4M more people is probably underselling how small Zurich is in comparison to London and SF. Nevertheless, it's not a world capital, but with its concentration of highly qualified students and graduates from two of the top universities I think it is quite competitive. Plus it helps that it's not 1.6M people isolated somewhere in a desert, rather it's a continuation of Europe's most densely populated stretch of land (London-Netherlands-Ruhr-SW-Germany-Milano), which helps at getting lots of business/talent in neighboring countries.
- hocuspocus 9y ago
  > Zurich also has a high cost of living and well above any US cities. SF and NYC are a lot more expensive. You're right about the size of the job market though, it's tiny, even relative to the population size.
  - kgwgk 9y ago
    It depends on how you calculate the cost. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities_for_expatriate_employees https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_citie... https://www.atlasandboots.com/remote-jobs/most-expensive-cities-for-expats/ https://www.atlasandboots.com/remote-jobs/most-expensive-cit... https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index
    - hocuspocus 9y ago
      If you calculate unrealistically, yes, sure :) Day-to-day expenses are a tiny part of a typical budget. In most scenarios, housing, income taxes and transportation alone will easily cost you twice as much in SF compared to Zürich. As a software engineer, the salary difference should make up for it, or even reach levels that are unlikely in Switzerland. That's great, but for most people, I can guarantee you, Zürich is a lot cheaper.
      - kgwgk 9y ago
        I don’t argue that Zurich can be affordable (mostly because salaries are higher in general). But the median single family home seems to go for $1.5mn both in Switzerland and Zurich. I don’t think transportation is cheaper in Zurich but I guess income taxes alone can make a difference. The point is that many things, including many things that “rich foreigners” use to do, are more expensive in Zurich than in San Francisco. For example [1] a hair cut is twice as much ($62 vs $30), a basic dinner at a neighborhood pub for two is 50% more ($74 vs $50), going to the cinema is 30% more ($18 vs $14), a gym membership is 30% more ($118 vs 91$), etc. [1] https://www.finews.ch/images/download/Mapping.the.worlds.prices.2017.pdf https://www.finews.ch/images/download/Mapping.the.worlds.pri... edit: in the linked document, monthly rent for a mid-range 2-bedroom apartment is 37% higher in San Francisco ($3449 vs $2520). However, the cost of transportation in its different forms is higher in Zurich.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
London has very poor salaries for development, especially compared to Switzerland. Standard developers make 30-40k pounds...
- richardknop 9y ago
  Yes but high end (financial industry and top MNCs) and contract jobs can pay 3-4x more than that. So when you are a good developer and are either from Europe or looking to relocate to Europe, London and Zurich are two top places you should concentrate your job hunt on.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    You'll also make good money in Bern, Basel, Lausanne, and Geneva. It isn't just Zurich, the French part is good also.
- MagnumOpus 9y ago
  20-year-old fresh uni graduates or government employees make 30-40k pounds. Seasoned competent devs easily earn twice as much -- or three times as much if they are contracting, or four times as much if they are good enough to hack it in the well-paying industries (bigTech or finance).
- barrkel 9y ago
  Entry-level developers with a couple of years experience, perhaps. Not the case for senior developers (more like 60-90k), and getting six figures GBP is not difficult if you're working in finance.

Zurich, along with London, has the highest salaries for development in Europe. You may need to work in a finance-related position, but you can make fairly big bucks.

jpatokal 9y ago

The one major non-finance option is Google, which has a large and growing engineering office there. https://careers.google.com/locations/zurich/ https://careers.google.com/locations/zurich/ Disclaimer: I work for Google, but not in ZRH.

electricslpnsld 9y ago
Apple also has an office in Zurich.

wil421 9y ago

The population of Zurich seems quite small to support a large amount of developers. Everyone here is comparing London, SF, and other places that have over 4 million more people. Zurich also has a high cost of living and well above any US cities.

tgsovlerkhgsel 9y ago
If you include rent (which is high but not as insane as in SF), it's comparable to SF: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=San+Francisco%2C+CA&country2=Switzerland&city2=Zurich https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
m_mueller 9y ago
Zurich can draw from around 1.6M people, which is its metropolitan area with >8.3% people commuting to the center. So yeah, >4M more people is probably underselling how small Zurich is in comparison to London and SF. Nevertheless, it's not a world capital, but with its concentration of highly qualified students and graduates from two of the top universities I think it is quite competitive. Plus it helps that it's not 1.6M people isolated somewhere in a desert, rather it's a continuation of Europe's most densely populated stretch of land (London-Netherlands-Ruhr-SW-Germany-Milano), which helps at getting lots of business/talent in neighboring countries.
hocuspocus 9y ago
> Zurich also has a high cost of living and well above any US cities. SF and NYC are a lot more expensive. You're right about the size of the job market though, it's tiny, even relative to the population size.
- kgwgk 9y ago
  It depends on how you calculate the cost. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities_for_expatriate_employees https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_citie... https://www.atlasandboots.com/remote-jobs/most-expensive-cities-for-expats/ https://www.atlasandboots.com/remote-jobs/most-expensive-cit... https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index
  - hocuspocus 9y ago
    If you calculate unrealistically, yes, sure :) Day-to-day expenses are a tiny part of a typical budget. In most scenarios, housing, income taxes and transportation alone will easily cost you twice as much in SF compared to Zürich. As a software engineer, the salary difference should make up for it, or even reach levels that are unlikely in Switzerland. That's great, but for most people, I can guarantee you, Zürich is a lot cheaper.
    - kgwgk 9y ago
      I don’t argue that Zurich can be affordable (mostly because salaries are higher in general). But the median single family home seems to go for $1.5mn both in Switzerland and Zurich. I don’t think transportation is cheaper in Zurich but I guess income taxes alone can make a difference. The point is that many things, including many things that “rich foreigners” use to do, are more expensive in Zurich than in San Francisco. For example [1] a hair cut is twice as much ($62 vs $30), a basic dinner at a neighborhood pub for two is 50% more ($74 vs $50), going to the cinema is 30% more ($18 vs $14), a gym membership is 30% more ($118 vs 91$), etc. [1] https://www.finews.ch/images/download/Mapping.the.worlds.prices.2017.pdf https://www.finews.ch/images/download/Mapping.the.worlds.pri... edit: in the linked document, monthly rent for a mid-range 2-bedroom apartment is 37% higher in San Francisco ($3449 vs $2520). However, the cost of transportation in its different forms is higher in Zurich.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

London has very poor salaries for development, especially compared to Switzerland. Standard developers make 30-40k pounds...

richardknop 9y ago
Yes but high end (financial industry and top MNCs) and contract jobs can pay 3-4x more than that. So when you are a good developer and are either from Europe or looking to relocate to Europe, London and Zurich are two top places you should concentrate your job hunt on.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  You'll also make good money in Bern, Basel, Lausanne, and Geneva. It isn't just Zurich, the French part is good also.
MagnumOpus 9y ago
20-year-old fresh uni graduates or government employees make 30-40k pounds. Seasoned competent devs easily earn twice as much -- or three times as much if they are contracting, or four times as much if they are good enough to hack it in the well-paying industries (bigTech or finance).
barrkel 9y ago
Entry-level developers with a couple of years experience, perhaps. Not the case for senior developers (more like 60-90k), and getting six figures GBP is not difficult if you're working in finance.