6 ms·

Hey, but at least you get paid more in U.S., right?

electricslpnsld 9y ago
Zurich pay can eclipse Valley pay. I have friends who went to ETH for grad school and were getting close to 100k CHF a year. This is grad school -- the pay goes up from there.
- _nalply 9y ago
  This is true. I know someone who works as a dev for CHF 150k+ in Bern, and Zurich has even higher levels of salary.
- rconti 9y ago
  Getting paid while in grad school? Or you're saying the pay goes up as you go from graduate degree to Ph.D?
  - hobo_mark 9y ago
    Yes (both).
    - rconti 9y ago
      Nice. Working in Europe is definitely on my list for the next handful of years.. just need to figure out how to make the move (have EU citizenship, just a matter of making the jump)
  - shafyy 9y ago
    Getting paid while in grad school. As a grad student at ETH, depending on your department, you'll earn anything from $60k - $100k (ballpark).
  - chrisseaton 9y ago
    If you aren't getting paid to be in grad school, then that was a hint that they didn't really want to take you. Any reputable grad school place will be paying you.
    - toomanybeersies 9y ago
      Depends on the country. In New Zealand it's not common to be paid to do post grad.
- andersonmvd 9y ago
  Do not forget that the taxes are way different and should be accounted for in a comparison.
  - joe3774 9y ago
    I lived in Switzerland, paid 12% taxes and 5% for AHV (public pension fund, you don't get this money back), lived in a 100sqm (1000sqf) flat for 1800 chf a month, 25 min to zurich by train but only a 15min bike ride to work, ~110k salary
- hobo_mark 9y ago
  On the other hand, you will need that much to live there! Take this 250k googler, he's more frugal than anyone I know and yet they spend 90k/yr living in Zuerich. http://retireinprogress.com/2017-q4/ http://retireinprogress.com/2017-q4/
  - maehwasu 9y ago
    If you read the post, he spent $27K on two wedding ceremonies, and $10K on a huge trip (presumably his honeymoon). Actual "normal" cost was closer to $50K.
    - kgwgk 9y ago
      And that’s the most frugal guy he knows!
  - chrisper 9y ago
    > On the other hand, you will need that much to live there! This is not true. (I live in Switzerland)
matttproud 9y ago
Hardly. The tax system in the United States and California is markedly inefficient in terms of price and what you get out of it. CH taxes are minimal, and the body politic and municipalities just work. Source: I lived and worked in S.V. and live in Zürich for several years.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  It really depends on what you are doing, though pay for grad students and post docs was definitely higher in Switzerland than in the states. Living expenses were high also, and if you think finding an apartment in San Francisco is hard, it is MUCH harder in Switzerland as a foreigner, and probably more expensive to boot.
barrkel 9y ago
Zurich, along with London, has the highest salaries for development in Europe. You may need to work in a finance-related position, but you can make fairly big bucks.
- jpatokal 9y ago
  The one major non-finance option is Google, which has a large and growing engineering office there. https://careers.google.com/locations/zurich/ https://careers.google.com/locations/zurich/ Disclaimer: I work for Google, but not in ZRH.
  - electricslpnsld 9y ago
    Apple also has an office in Zurich.
- wil421 9y ago
  The population of Zurich seems quite small to support a large amount of developers. Everyone here is comparing London, SF, and other places that have over 4 million more people. Zurich also has a high cost of living and well above any US cities.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 9y ago
    If you include rent (which is high but not as insane as in SF), it's comparable to SF: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=San+Francisco%2C+CA&country2=Switzerland&city2=Zurich https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
  - m_mueller 9y ago
    Zurich can draw from around 1.6M people, which is its metropolitan area with >8.3% people commuting to the center. So yeah, >4M more people is probably underselling how small Zurich is in comparison to London and SF. Nevertheless, it's not a world capital, but with its concentration of highly qualified students and graduates from two of the top universities I think it is quite competitive. Plus it helps that it's not 1.6M people isolated somewhere in a desert, rather it's a continuation of Europe's most densely populated stretch of land (London-Netherlands-Ruhr-SW-Germany-Milano), which helps at getting lots of business/talent in neighboring countries.

Zurich pay can eclipse Valley pay. I have friends who went to ETH for grad school and were getting close to 100k CHF a year. This is grad school -- the pay goes up from there.

_nalply 9y ago
This is true. I know someone who works as a dev for CHF 150k+ in Bern, and Zurich has even higher levels of salary.
rconti 9y ago
Getting paid while in grad school? Or you're saying the pay goes up as you go from graduate degree to Ph.D?
- hobo_mark 9y ago
  Yes (both).
  - rconti 9y ago
    Nice. Working in Europe is definitely on my list for the next handful of years.. just need to figure out how to make the move (have EU citizenship, just a matter of making the jump)
- shafyy 9y ago
  Getting paid while in grad school. As a grad student at ETH, depending on your department, you'll earn anything from $60k - $100k (ballpark).
- chrisseaton 9y ago
  If you aren't getting paid to be in grad school, then that was a hint that they didn't really want to take you. Any reputable grad school place will be paying you.
  - toomanybeersies 9y ago
    Depends on the country. In New Zealand it's not common to be paid to do post grad.
andersonmvd 9y ago
Do not forget that the taxes are way different and should be accounted for in a comparison.
- joe3774 9y ago
  I lived in Switzerland, paid 12% taxes and 5% for AHV (public pension fund, you don't get this money back), lived in a 100sqm (1000sqf) flat for 1800 chf a month, 25 min to zurich by train but only a 15min bike ride to work, ~110k salary
hobo_mark 9y ago
On the other hand, you will need that much to live there! Take this 250k googler, he's more frugal than anyone I know and yet they spend 90k/yr living in Zuerich. http://retireinprogress.com/2017-q4/ http://retireinprogress.com/2017-q4/
- maehwasu 9y ago
  If you read the post, he spent $27K on two wedding ceremonies, and $10K on a huge trip (presumably his honeymoon). Actual "normal" cost was closer to $50K.
  - kgwgk 9y ago
    And that’s the most frugal guy he knows!
- chrisper 9y ago
  > On the other hand, you will need that much to live there! This is not true. (I live in Switzerland)

matttproud 9y ago

Hardly. The tax system in the United States and California is markedly inefficient in terms of price and what you get out of it. CH taxes are minimal, and the body politic and municipalities just work. Source: I lived and worked in S.V. and live in Zürich for several years.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
It really depends on what you are doing, though pay for grad students and post docs was definitely higher in Switzerland than in the states. Living expenses were high also, and if you think finding an apartment in San Francisco is hard, it is MUCH harder in Switzerland as a foreigner, and probably more expensive to boot.

barrkel 9y ago

Zurich, along with London, has the highest salaries for development in Europe. You may need to work in a finance-related position, but you can make fairly big bucks.

jpatokal 9y ago
The one major non-finance option is Google, which has a large and growing engineering office there. https://careers.google.com/locations/zurich/ https://careers.google.com/locations/zurich/ Disclaimer: I work for Google, but not in ZRH.
- electricslpnsld 9y ago
  Apple also has an office in Zurich.
wil421 9y ago
The population of Zurich seems quite small to support a large amount of developers. Everyone here is comparing London, SF, and other places that have over 4 million more people. Zurich also has a high cost of living and well above any US cities.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 9y ago
  If you include rent (which is high but not as insane as in SF), it's comparable to SF: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=San+Francisco%2C+CA&country2=Switzerland&city2=Zurich https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
- m_mueller 9y ago
  Zurich can draw from around 1.6M people, which is its metropolitan area with >8.3% people commuting to the center. So yeah, >4M more people is probably underselling how small Zurich is in comparison to London and SF. Nevertheless, it's not a world capital, but with its concentration of highly qualified students and graduates from two of the top universities I think it is quite competitive. Plus it helps that it's not 1.6M people isolated somewhere in a desert, rather it's a continuation of Europe's most densely populated stretch of land (London-Netherlands-Ruhr-SW-Germany-Milano), which helps at getting lots of business/talent in neighboring countries.