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I have been involved with Swissnex and been advising Swiss startups for some time. I also go to Switzerland every other year if not every year and meet with sta

I have been involved with Swissnex and been advising Swiss startups for some time. I also go to Switzerland every other year if not every year and meet with startups there. Things I noticed: 1. Incredibly smart people. 2. Behind Silicon Valley on best technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. 3. Great work ethic and social responsibility. 4. Do not have world conquering ambitions - which kinda works against them. One of the founders was talking about an idea and was being very conservative with market size estimates. So I suggested to him - Think about how you can conquer the world. And his reply was - We are Swiss, we don't conquer the world. I think one of the biggest challenge for Switzerland tech scene is that there is no viable immigration path for a non-EU citizen. Even after decades, you might not get a citizenship [1]. It makes it difficult for them to attract talent from outside, especially those with Silicon Valley experience. Not that US is any better for Indians. Based on current estimates, if someone from India applies for an employment based Green Card now, they might get it in 70 years. And life is a pain because you have to do a lot of paperwork throughout. If there was a viable immigration path in Switzerland, I would move there tomorrow! 1. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/naturalisation-controversy_american-professor-denied-swiss-citizenship/41075124 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/naturalisation-controversy_amer...

Voloskaya 9y ago
> Do not have world conquering ambitions - which kinda works against them. Works against them towards what? Not wanting to conquer the world is legitimate, I don't see why everyone should absolutely want to become the next Bezos.
- whatshisface 9y ago
  Sure, but if nobody in your country wants to conquer the world then the others will never reap the benefits of someone having conquered a piece of it.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    No, but they'll reap the benefits of being decent people.
    - Cyph0n 9y ago
      I don't follow. So if your company "conquers" the world, everyone associated with it is an "indecent" person?
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - coldtea 9y ago
        Statistically yes. Though, not "everyone associated with it", mostly the top dogs.
  - llukas 9y ago
    How they'd reap the benefits if big corps and rich individuals do not pay their share of taxes? SF locals that are priced out of their city would have likely different opinion.
    - whatshisface 9y ago
      You have to strike a balance. If there's no personal ambition then there's no wealth to redistribute. If there's no fairness then one person takes everything and the whole thing stops. To that end, why shouldn't people fully invest themselves in their role? Expecting CEOs to manage social fairness would be a massive conflict of interest - so we should probably expect other people to keep tabs on that.
      - llukas 9y ago
        CEO's already manage social fairness. Just look at lobbying efforts.
- throwawayfinal 9y ago
  It also means that they have trouble acquiring certain types of talent (reputation is free talent advertising). In addition, having a few world conquerers around helps bring talent and money which is then turned into startups - there are a lot of great companies and non-profits that make SV what it is because some founder or early employee exited with retirement money and decided they wanted to apply their skills to helping society. Not that's the norm, mind you, or that world-conquerers are amazing. Just, why having the occasional "big vision" around helps out.
  - Voloskaya 9y ago
    Good point :)
- gervase 9y ago
  Based on the other context from the comment, probably something like "[...] works against them [when they are looking to fundraise from SV VCs]."
- timewarrior 9y ago
  Imagine you build an AirBnb like solution limited to Switzerland market. AirBnb will eventually come and eat your lunch. In today's globalized world - if you are not one of the bigger players and do not have moat (govt contract, some other kind of exclusivity) - other bigger players will come after you.
  - quickthrower2 9y ago
    Yeah plus the Y-combinators of this world won't want to throw cash at a 10-1 chance of making a few million, when they can do the same on a 100-1 chance of making a few billion.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      This is a great observation: we need better accelerators to incubate startups that are more realistic and not willing to salt the earth to win at all costs [1]. [1] I'm not referring to YC specifically, but investors and incubators who are comfortable with Uber-esq behavior.
      - timewarrior 9y ago
        Not all global mega corps need to salt the earth. To some extent disruption will have side effects. Some like Uber are deliberately evil and others like Apple, Salesforce etc might not. My original point was that people were attempting ideas which were in the realm of potential global mega corps. If you don't grow to be one, you get eaten up!
      - ZenoArrow 9y ago
        > "This is a great observation: we need better accelerators to incubate startups that are more realistic and not willing to salt the earth to win at all costs [1]." We already have that. They're called banks.
        beatpanda 9y ago
        There's a huge gap between investments banks consider too risky and the kinds of things SV investors in particular want to fund.
- kuschku 9y ago
  Look at the example of Taxi apps. There are many in the European market, Germany alone has half a dozen local to the country. Yet, while uber operated in Germany, they could get basically 100% of the customers – simply by throwing billions of VC money at the task to subsidize rides. If competitors use such methods, there’s little you, as smaller company, can do.
  - timewarrior 9y ago
    Not just that. This happened when a Uber like model doesn't have any inherent global market place advantages. Most users in a city take a cab in their own city most of the time. If even having this in their favor, small players are finding it difficult to survive - imagine if a bigger player comes in a space where there is a play for global level market place.
    - itronitron 9y ago
      where there is a play for global level marketplace you will see real competition (smart phones seem to be a good example here) ... Uber is basically alone at the global level because of the local advantage as suggested and also the unwillingness of other big players to lose hundreds of millions of dollars each year or ignore local laws.
  - untog 9y ago
    While Uber operated in Germany... shall we recount the reasons why they do not do so any more? There are two sides to a coin: while Uber has world-dominating ambition, that also means they aren't anywhere near as flexible to local market conditions as a local startup is. And I wouldn't consider Uber an unmitigated success yet - they still depend on VC cash to keep going, we'll see what happens when it runs out.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      > While Uber operated in Germany... shall we recount the reasons why they do not do so any more? They refused to pay insurance for their drivers? That's the reason why Uber stopped. Because they didn't want to pay for the time between the driver leaving their home and entering the car, and the time that the driver picked up the first customer. Which meant that during this time the driver was entirely uninsured, which in turn is illegal.
- tomc1985 9y ago
  Agreed. The world is saturated with wannabe empires. Stop trying to take over the world!
quickthrower2 9y ago
> Behind Silicon Valley on best technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. Can you elaborate on that? Are these "best practices" around technology or process? Are they found in books, or are the books out of date and you just have to 'be there' to discover them?
- timewarrior 9y ago
  I used to be in SF and in South Bay. Recently moved to Seattle , closely associated to the India and Swiss tech ecosystem. In my experience further away you are from SF, less cutting edge you are. In my experience even South Bay is 6 months behind SF. SF is a big melting pot, where a huge amount of talent are trying out new things and they are open to sharing their experiences - be it about latest technologies or latest customer acquisition strategies. Because of this, you find out about the latest strategies and associate advantages and disadvantages much earlier. By the time these strategies turn in blog posts and capture popular mind share - it takes months and years. Of course there are exceptions everywhere and some companies outside SF are great at being at cutting edge. However on an amortized basis, further away from SF you are, more likely you are to be behind the cutting edge.
  - mathgladiator 9y ago
    There is also a lot of hot air generated by SF that may be advantageous to ignore.
    - timewarrior 9y ago
      Maybe choosing own network and use of own time wisely would help. Filter might be better vs ignore. If would rather be in a position where I can get potentially useful and useless information so that I can filter vs not having much information.
  - Karrot_Kream 9y ago
    What does "cutting edge" mean? They don't use modern deployment startegies? They don't use recently popular web frameworks? "Cutting edge" is so vague it's not clear whether SV just cargo cults more or whether it's actually more technically innvovative.
pkaye 9y ago
> Not that US is any better for Indians. Based on current estimates, if someone from India applies for an employment based Green Card now, they might get it in 70 years. And life is a pain because you have to do a lot of paperwork throughout. I thought that is because so many Indians applying for green cards but there is a limit by country so it takes a long time?
- timewarrior 9y ago
  Yes, that is one of the main factors. And the ground reality is that right now a new employment based Green Card petitioner from India would need to wait 70 years.
  - propman 9y ago
    Need to get this fixed. A bipartisan bill cosponsered by 340 house representatives is there but Paul Ryan is not allowing the vote on it. Perhaps not the limit fixed, but the backlog that's currently there for H1bs. It will be extremely beneficial for the country, for the H1bs and family, and would drive up tech wages. Literally no negatives. Their cause is even more sympathetic than DACA. I sincerely believe if they were protesting and more politically involved, they'd easily pass it through but no noise is being made. That's a good thing personally in my opinion since I'm turned off by protests and think that it divides us, and most protesters are very aggressive and bluntly not very bright. However, protests are very effective in American History in order to make change and if I were in their position I'd say that's the best bet. Some protests seem politically manufactured and arguments easily refuted, but movements like the civil rights movements and the American Disability Act would not have been possible without protests.
    - untog 9y ago
      > Their cause is even more sympathetic than DACA. I wouldn't go that far. DACA recipients were brought to the country as children and literally know nothing else, often including the language of their "home" country. H1Bs might be more beneficial economically, but I'm not convinced they are more sympathetic.
dwc 9y ago
> We are Swiss, we don't conquer the world. I am curious what such Swiss people think of Nestlé, then. Or other companies and industries where Switzerland has a prominent global reputation? I would just chalk it up to personal preferences and motivations, but the statement as written suggests it's a Swiss thing in general.
- kzrdude 9y ago
  You know, it's most likely said with a cheeky smile and a play on ones own stereotypes.
bogomipz 9y ago
>"I think one of the biggest challenge for Switzerland tech scene is that there is no viable immigration path for a non-EU citizen" This is not true. It's up to the local canton to grant citizenship[1]. It has noting to do with EU vs non-EU either. Switzerland itself is not actually part of the EU[2]. For someone who visits so often, it seems odd that you don't know that. In fact even in the video in your link says that the same committee that rejected this person's citizenship awarded it to a Turkish individual and Turkey is not part of the EU. >"Do not have world conquering ambitions" Yes in the majority of the world this is actually considered quite normal and acceptable. Many would even say "preferable." [1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376 [2] https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries_en https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-c...
- timewarrior 9y ago
  Probably I used the wrong word. Maybe a better word is no definitive path after getting permanent residency. It depends on the whim and fancy of the local canton. Most countries have a definitive path after getting permanent residency.
- microtherion 9y ago
  > It has noting to do with EU vs non-EU either. Switzerland has a treaty with the EU that gives EU citizens the right to live and work in Switzerland (and vice versa). For non-EU citizens, the situation is far less clear cut.
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    Yes understood, but the OPs claim was about citizenship no working and living in Switzerland. And Swiss citizenship has nothig to do with whether you are from an EU country or not.
nextstep 9y ago
Oh HN, how is this the top comment on this fantastic blog post about the huge lifestyle drawbacks from living in SV? >> 2. Behind Silicon Valley on best technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. This was clearly written in earnest, but works better as a satirical joke about the inward-facing nature of bay area tech. Please explain what "best technology and product building practices" means here, and how you can quantify that over time. What were the best practices of early 2016 which are just now being implemented in Zurich-base startups?
- adventured 9y ago
  How much experience do you personally have with Switzerland based start-ups? Serious question. The parent's comment is valuable because they actually have direct experience with the topic. It's being upvoted accordingly. Very few people on HN are likely to have direct experience with Swiss start-ups, further amplifying the value of the parent's input.
  - jpatokal 9y ago
    The parent's comment is valuable overall, but nextstep is quite correctly pointing out that that particular observation is phrased in absurd terms. You know how people joking referly to something that was a recent fad as being "so 2016"? That was two years ago. Are Swiss startups hopeless because they're still focused on "millennial engagement" (so 2016) instead of "viral learning" or "augmented reality talent management"? (Yes, this apparently is a thing.)
    - timewarrior 9y ago
      Nowhere did I say that Swiss startups are hopeless, either due to this reason or overall. This was a conclusion driven by nextstep and few others. And I think it was largely due to my mistake. I should have used "latest" where as I used "best". What I really meant was: >> 2. Behind Silicon Valley on latest technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. In fact I said that if it weren't for immigration uncertainty, I would move there tomorrow. Last year, I moved to Seattle from SF to experience a change of pace. So it's not that I have blind love for all things SF. SF has a lot more startups trying out things in a small geography. They are trying a lot more things and failing a lot more and consequently learning a lot more. There are benefits and drawbacks of not being the first mover. Many a times you do not waste time, effort and money going after dead end ideas (remember HomeJoy). Sometime it leads to missing out on things like AirBnb (especially relevant to as tourist driven economy as Switzerland). With lesser startups being formed, comparatively lesser capital available - Swiss ecosystem is trying to find it equilibrium. And as I originally mentioned - they are really smart people. They will figure out what is best for them. This thread was also a good learning for me. Every word matters. Sometimes, you try to sneak a post in between other work and things slip!
timewarrior 9y ago
I can't edit my previous comment anymore. The point 2 should have been: >> 2. Behind Silicon Valley on latest technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. I instead used the word "best" which doesn't really capture what I had meant. This thread also helped me develop a better understanding of my learnings.

Voloskaya 9y ago

> Do not have world conquering ambitions - which kinda works against them. Works against them towards what? Not wanting to conquer the world is legitimate, I don't see why everyone should absolutely want to become the next Bezos.

whatshisface 9y ago
Sure, but if nobody in your country wants to conquer the world then the others will never reap the benefits of someone having conquered a piece of it.
- coldtea 9y ago
  No, but they'll reap the benefits of being decent people.
  - Cyph0n 9y ago
    I don't follow. So if your company "conquers" the world, everyone associated with it is an "indecent" person?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Statistically yes. Though, not "everyone associated with it", mostly the top dogs.
- llukas 9y ago
  How they'd reap the benefits if big corps and rich individuals do not pay their share of taxes? SF locals that are priced out of their city would have likely different opinion.
  - whatshisface 9y ago
    You have to strike a balance. If there's no personal ambition then there's no wealth to redistribute. If there's no fairness then one person takes everything and the whole thing stops. To that end, why shouldn't people fully invest themselves in their role? Expecting CEOs to manage social fairness would be a massive conflict of interest - so we should probably expect other people to keep tabs on that.
    - llukas 9y ago
      CEO's already manage social fairness. Just look at lobbying efforts.
throwawayfinal 9y ago
It also means that they have trouble acquiring certain types of talent (reputation is free talent advertising). In addition, having a few world conquerers around helps bring talent and money which is then turned into startups - there are a lot of great companies and non-profits that make SV what it is because some founder or early employee exited with retirement money and decided they wanted to apply their skills to helping society. Not that's the norm, mind you, or that world-conquerers are amazing. Just, why having the occasional "big vision" around helps out.
- Voloskaya 9y ago
  Good point :)
gervase 9y ago
Based on the other context from the comment, probably something like "[...] works against them [when they are looking to fundraise from SV VCs]."
timewarrior 9y ago
Imagine you build an AirBnb like solution limited to Switzerland market. AirBnb will eventually come and eat your lunch. In today's globalized world - if you are not one of the bigger players and do not have moat (govt contract, some other kind of exclusivity) - other bigger players will come after you.
- quickthrower2 9y ago
  Yeah plus the Y-combinators of this world won't want to throw cash at a 10-1 chance of making a few million, when they can do the same on a 100-1 chance of making a few billion.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    This is a great observation: we need better accelerators to incubate startups that are more realistic and not willing to salt the earth to win at all costs [1]. [1] I'm not referring to YC specifically, but investors and incubators who are comfortable with Uber-esq behavior.
    - timewarrior 9y ago
      Not all global mega corps need to salt the earth. To some extent disruption will have side effects. Some like Uber are deliberately evil and others like Apple, Salesforce etc might not. My original point was that people were attempting ideas which were in the realm of potential global mega corps. If you don't grow to be one, you get eaten up!
    - ZenoArrow 9y ago
      > "This is a great observation: we need better accelerators to incubate startups that are more realistic and not willing to salt the earth to win at all costs [1]." We already have that. They're called banks.
      - beatpanda 9y ago
        There's a huge gap between investments banks consider too risky and the kinds of things SV investors in particular want to fund.
kuschku 9y ago
Look at the example of Taxi apps. There are many in the European market, Germany alone has half a dozen local to the country. Yet, while uber operated in Germany, they could get basically 100% of the customers – simply by throwing billions of VC money at the task to subsidize rides. If competitors use such methods, there’s little you, as smaller company, can do.
- timewarrior 9y ago
  Not just that. This happened when a Uber like model doesn't have any inherent global market place advantages. Most users in a city take a cab in their own city most of the time. If even having this in their favor, small players are finding it difficult to survive - imagine if a bigger player comes in a space where there is a play for global level market place.
  - itronitron 9y ago
    where there is a play for global level marketplace you will see real competition (smart phones seem to be a good example here) ... Uber is basically alone at the global level because of the local advantage as suggested and also the unwillingness of other big players to lose hundreds of millions of dollars each year or ignore local laws.
- untog 9y ago
  While Uber operated in Germany... shall we recount the reasons why they do not do so any more? There are two sides to a coin: while Uber has world-dominating ambition, that also means they aren't anywhere near as flexible to local market conditions as a local startup is. And I wouldn't consider Uber an unmitigated success yet - they still depend on VC cash to keep going, we'll see what happens when it runs out.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    > While Uber operated in Germany... shall we recount the reasons why they do not do so any more? They refused to pay insurance for their drivers? That's the reason why Uber stopped. Because they didn't want to pay for the time between the driver leaving their home and entering the car, and the time that the driver picked up the first customer. Which meant that during this time the driver was entirely uninsured, which in turn is illegal.
tomc1985 9y ago
Agreed. The world is saturated with wannabe empires. Stop trying to take over the world!

quickthrower2 9y ago

> Behind Silicon Valley on best technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. Can you elaborate on that? Are these "best practices" around technology or process? Are they found in books, or are the books out of date and you just have to 'be there' to discover them?

timewarrior 9y ago
I used to be in SF and in South Bay. Recently moved to Seattle , closely associated to the India and Swiss tech ecosystem. In my experience further away you are from SF, less cutting edge you are. In my experience even South Bay is 6 months behind SF. SF is a big melting pot, where a huge amount of talent are trying out new things and they are open to sharing their experiences - be it about latest technologies or latest customer acquisition strategies. Because of this, you find out about the latest strategies and associate advantages and disadvantages much earlier. By the time these strategies turn in blog posts and capture popular mind share - it takes months and years. Of course there are exceptions everywhere and some companies outside SF are great at being at cutting edge. However on an amortized basis, further away from SF you are, more likely you are to be behind the cutting edge.
- mathgladiator 9y ago
  There is also a lot of hot air generated by SF that may be advantageous to ignore.
  - timewarrior 9y ago
    Maybe choosing own network and use of own time wisely would help. Filter might be better vs ignore. If would rather be in a position where I can get potentially useful and useless information so that I can filter vs not having much information.
- Karrot_Kream 9y ago
  What does "cutting edge" mean? They don't use modern deployment startegies? They don't use recently popular web frameworks? "Cutting edge" is so vague it's not clear whether SV just cargo cults more or whether it's actually more technically innvovative.

pkaye 9y ago

> Not that US is any better for Indians. Based on current estimates, if someone from India applies for an employment based Green Card now, they might get it in 70 years. And life is a pain because you have to do a lot of paperwork throughout. I thought that is because so many Indians applying for green cards but there is a limit by country so it takes a long time?

timewarrior 9y ago
Yes, that is one of the main factors. And the ground reality is that right now a new employment based Green Card petitioner from India would need to wait 70 years.
- propman 9y ago
  Need to get this fixed. A bipartisan bill cosponsered by 340 house representatives is there but Paul Ryan is not allowing the vote on it. Perhaps not the limit fixed, but the backlog that's currently there for H1bs. It will be extremely beneficial for the country, for the H1bs and family, and would drive up tech wages. Literally no negatives. Their cause is even more sympathetic than DACA. I sincerely believe if they were protesting and more politically involved, they'd easily pass it through but no noise is being made. That's a good thing personally in my opinion since I'm turned off by protests and think that it divides us, and most protesters are very aggressive and bluntly not very bright. However, protests are very effective in American History in order to make change and if I were in their position I'd say that's the best bet. Some protests seem politically manufactured and arguments easily refuted, but movements like the civil rights movements and the American Disability Act would not have been possible without protests.
  - untog 9y ago
    > Their cause is even more sympathetic than DACA. I wouldn't go that far. DACA recipients were brought to the country as children and literally know nothing else, often including the language of their "home" country. H1Bs might be more beneficial economically, but I'm not convinced they are more sympathetic.

dwc 9y ago

> We are Swiss, we don't conquer the world. I am curious what such Swiss people think of Nestlé, then. Or other companies and industries where Switzerland has a prominent global reputation? I would just chalk it up to personal preferences and motivations, but the statement as written suggests it's a Swiss thing in general.

kzrdude 9y ago
You know, it's most likely said with a cheeky smile and a play on ones own stereotypes.

bogomipz 9y ago

>"I think one of the biggest challenge for Switzerland tech scene is that there is no viable immigration path for a non-EU citizen" This is not true. It's up to the local canton to grant citizenship[1]. It has noting to do with EU vs non-EU either. Switzerland itself is not actually part of the EU[2]. For someone who visits so often, it seems odd that you don't know that. In fact even in the video in your link says that the same committee that rejected this person's citizenship awarded it to a Turkish individual and Turkey is not part of the EU. >"Do not have world conquering ambitions" Yes in the majority of the world this is actually considered quite normal and acceptable. Many would even say "preferable." [1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376 [2] https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries_en https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-c...

timewarrior 9y ago
Probably I used the wrong word. Maybe a better word is no definitive path after getting permanent residency. It depends on the whim and fancy of the local canton. Most countries have a definitive path after getting permanent residency.
microtherion 9y ago
> It has noting to do with EU vs non-EU either. Switzerland has a treaty with the EU that gives EU citizens the right to live and work in Switzerland (and vice versa). For non-EU citizens, the situation is far less clear cut.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  Yes understood, but the OPs claim was about citizenship no working and living in Switzerland. And Swiss citizenship has nothig to do with whether you are from an EU country or not.

nextstep 9y ago

Oh HN, how is this the top comment on this fantastic blog post about the huge lifestyle drawbacks from living in SV? >> 2. Behind Silicon Valley on best technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. This was clearly written in earnest, but works better as a satirical joke about the inward-facing nature of bay area tech. Please explain what "best technology and product building practices" means here, and how you can quantify that over time. What were the best practices of early 2016 which are just now being implemented in Zurich-base startups?

adventured 9y ago
How much experience do you personally have with Switzerland based start-ups? Serious question. The parent's comment is valuable because they actually have direct experience with the topic. It's being upvoted accordingly. Very few people on HN are likely to have direct experience with Swiss start-ups, further amplifying the value of the parent's input.
- jpatokal 9y ago
  The parent's comment is valuable overall, but nextstep is quite correctly pointing out that that particular observation is phrased in absurd terms. You know how people joking referly to something that was a recent fad as being "so 2016"? That was two years ago. Are Swiss startups hopeless because they're still focused on "millennial engagement" (so 2016) instead of "viral learning" or "augmented reality talent management"? (Yes, this apparently is a thing.)
  - timewarrior 9y ago
    Nowhere did I say that Swiss startups are hopeless, either due to this reason or overall. This was a conclusion driven by nextstep and few others. And I think it was largely due to my mistake. I should have used "latest" where as I used "best". What I really meant was: >> 2. Behind Silicon Valley on latest technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. In fact I said that if it weren't for immigration uncertainty, I would move there tomorrow. Last year, I moved to Seattle from SF to experience a change of pace. So it's not that I have blind love for all things SF. SF has a lot more startups trying out things in a small geography. They are trying a lot more things and failing a lot more and consequently learning a lot more. There are benefits and drawbacks of not being the first mover. Many a times you do not waste time, effort and money going after dead end ideas (remember HomeJoy). Sometime it leads to missing out on things like AirBnb (especially relevant to as tourist driven economy as Switzerland). With lesser startups being formed, comparatively lesser capital available - Swiss ecosystem is trying to find it equilibrium. And as I originally mentioned - they are really smart people. They will figure out what is best for them. This thread was also a good learning for me. Every word matters. Sometimes, you try to sneak a post in between other work and things slip!

timewarrior 9y ago

I can't edit my previous comment anymore. The point 2 should have been: >> 2. Behind Silicon Valley on latest technology and product building practices by at least 2 years. I instead used the word "best" which doesn't really capture what I had meant. This thread also helped me develop a better understanding of my learnings.