6 ms·

Wealth anorexia a.k.a. hating yourself because you're not Larry Ellison

58 points by hernan7 16y ago

natrius 16y ago
> What we're really talking about here, in its extreme form, is Wealth Anorexia--a disease of distorted self-image that causes even the wildly successful to pursue their obsession beyond a reasonable point. ... Wealth anorexia is a problem for men. There's no evidence that this is a common problem that negatively affects people's lives. The most common result of trying extremely hard to be ridiculously rich is becoming modestly successful, except for the cases in which someone throws their entire life savings into a business that fails. I doubt that is common. The allure of parallelism has lead the author to an odd and inaccurate metaphor.
- vishaldpatel 16y ago
  Location location location. Where there are more eligible men than women - men have to work harder.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    Even in those places where women outnumber men, men still outnumber desirable women, so hard work still pays off. I suppose if women outnumbered men by four to one then men might be able to slack off... except such a society would almost certainly reinstitute polygamy, so men would have to work harder than ever to compete for quality and quantity of wives.
- sgman 16y ago
  "The most common result of trying extremely hard to be ridiculously rich is becoming modestly successful" The most common result of trying extremely hard to be ridiculously thin is becoming modestly healthy. The analogy stands.
  - natrius 16y ago
    I disagree. I don't think many people at all try to become ridiculously thin. Plus, such attempts rarely lead to good health, which is why eating disorders are such a big issue.
    - ugh 16y ago
      Trying extremely hard is not without health risks, physiological and psychological.
    - sgman 16y ago
      Just as "ridiculously rich" is relative (for some people in 3rd world countries it could be having a few thousand dollars) so is "ridiculously thin" (for someone weighing 350 pounds this could be weighing 250 pounds). And I would argue that achieving this goal, in general, leads to better health. This is not to say that exceptions which lead to poor results don't exist in both cases, which makes the correlation even stronger.
      - natrius 16y ago
        You're stretching this metaphor further and further into absurdity. The author of the post wonders why "wealth anorexia" doesn't get similar attention to that of actual anorexia. The answer is because anorexia actually has negative effects on the lives of many people. "Wealth anorexia" does not.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  The most common result of trying extremely hard to be ridiculously rich is becoming modestly successful, except for the cases in which someone throws their entire life savings into a business that fails. I doubt that is common. I can't tell you exactly how common it is. But one have to imagine that the sale of lottery tickets is strongly motivated by the desire to become ridiculously wealthy. This isn't something that generally results in improved savings...
aidenn0 16y ago
I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather be poor than be Larry Ellison.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Why is that?
  - jacoblyles 16y ago
    Because Larry Ellison has different beliefs on patents than what is generally accepted in this crowd. So of course, it would be a horror to be him.
  - byw 16y ago
    I get the impression that he's deeply discontent. He's always doing things to prove himself. Warren Buffett on the other hand I wouldn't mind, he seems to have things figured out.
- philk 16y ago
  You're right. Billions of dollars, fancy toys and a hot wife. I don't know how he makes it through the day.
  - nlogn 16y ago
    Having what Larry Ellison has is not the same thing as being Larry Ellison.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
- ghjjj 16y ago
  If you were Larry Ellison, you'd like being Larry Ellison.
rwhitman 16y ago
If this is a real problem I'd say it applies less to successful entrepreneurs who try too hard, but more for semi-successful middle-managers and sales people etc who put themselves in debt to gain the appearance of wealth. I mean isn't this partly the root cause for the housing bubble and subsequent collapse? When you walk into a swanky club, the guys getting bottle service, that buy Range Rovers and overpriced condos they have to make ridiculous payments on - I would say these are the guys with wealth anorexia.
Marticus 16y ago
I just really liked one of the comments: "(Steve Jobs = Angelina Jolie; Mark Zuckerberg = Scarlett Johansson; who's Paris Hilton?) Well, Paris Hilton is pretty but dumb. So the "wealth anorexia" version would be someone who's insanely rich, but dumb. So Paris Hilton is... Paris Hilton."
Synthetase 16y ago
Money makes a wonderful servant and a terrible master. You have to ask yourself, is money what you're after or a simulacrum for something else? I suspect for most people its the latter.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Money can buy political power, and chicks dig people with power. So yeah, it is a simulacrum for something else - hot girls.
lionhearted 16y ago
> I felt compelled to point out that the chances of becoming a billionaire were pretty darn slim. There's something subtle here I disagree with... "chances of becoming a billionaire" - chance is involved, but so is choice. I see this a lot, people talking about becoming a billionaire as if it's a random thing. How many people make a serious commitment to becoming a billionaire, research how to do it, manage their time, and actively try? I'll wager - not too many. I've crunched the numbers on what it'd take to be a billionaire, and I'm not interested in putting in that time - I have science and art and writing to do. But I think I could if I set my mind to it. Or maybe not! But how many people actually look at what it'd take to become a billionaire, say, "Okay, I'm willing to do all of the first steps, then keep taking risks, investing wisely, consumingly moderate/lowly, and so on." How many people try, and how many of them succeed? I'll wager not many try, and quite a lot of those who seriously try succeed. Edit: About his general point about "wealth anorexia" - yeah, it's just money, not something worth evaluating yourself by. Make a lot of money because there's no real reason not to make a lot of money, so long as you're doing it by creating things people want and getting a small fraction of the value you create in return. This is a common point I see - people who aren't single-minded don't understand single-minded people. I tried to cover it here - http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/?p=107 http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/?p=107 - "Rule an Empire, a Fistful of Rice" - it's with excerpts from the Lone Wolf and Cub comic as an argument and eventual duel between two fallen samurai. The first is telling the second that he's doing bad things for money, and why does he need the money? No matter how much money you have, your belly only holds one fistful of rice. But he doesn't understand that people who build empires are very aware of that - the money is a tool for doing other things. Me, I'd like to make at least hundreds of millions so I can sponsor research, build hospitals, build universities, build temples, commission art and support artists, get great engineers working on amazing projects... a friend said he'd be happy making $80k and can't think of anything else he'd do with it. I said - really? Work on curing diseases, sponsor arts, build a private military and go dismantle the North Korean government? I can think of lots of things I'd do with a hell of a lot of money...
- Jun8 16y ago
  Excellent blog entry you have there, although I tend to agree more with Sakon: We should not disregard "higher principles", whatever those may be (religion, samurai code, etc.), otherwise, what good are the things that being single-minded brings us? I am curious, what happens to Daigoro?
deco 16y ago
I think it's worth noting that someone who develops an eating disorder like anorexia is mostly hurting themselves through emotional distress and physical damage to their body. The emotional pain their friends and family experience when such a disorder takes hold of a loved one is part of the situation as well. When someone pursues the goal of becoming ridiculously rich they get into the position of being able to inflict great financial and emotional pain on a much larger number of people. The Enron executives who contributed to the destruction of many people's pensions and heads of state who siphon government funds to support their royal lifestyles while their citizens starve are two prime examples. I'm not trying to trivialize eating disorders nor am I saying that pursuit of wealth is inherently bad, but history has numerous examples of how greed can cause people to carry out extremely inhumane actions that affect large numbers of other people.
phren0logy 16y ago
Speaking as someone who treats anorexia, this is a deeply flawed metaphor. Anorexia is not only about self-image but often about control, particularly controlling the one thing that is extremely difficult for other people to force you to do: eat. It is more often rooted in control than mere vanity or jealousy. It is not the same, even as a shallow metaphor, as desiring to be wealthy.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Interesting. The idea that gets spread around about anorexics is that they honestly believe themselves to be too fat, even when they're dangerously underweight. Are you saying that's not really the case? (It always seemed iffy to me...)
  - phren0logy 16y ago
    No, the distorted body image is absolutely a part of it. But it's just one part of several that make anorexia what it is. It is a complex problem, and not well reduced to one element.
tdmackey 16y ago
Even if the people who actually become billionaires are small those who attempt and fail are often better off than they started. The middle ground between ones current status in life and reaching billionaire status is an immense landscape with many opportunities. In contrast to the counterpoint in his article the middle ground between playing basketball in say high school playing in the NBA is very slim; it is very much an all or nothing game where as the quest for wealth is vastly opposite.
sabj 16y ago
25 Comments, no one has yet pointed out the fact that one might not want to be Larry Ellison... ;) That said, I would like to have Larry Ellison's money.
switch 16y ago
what about people who want to money for the the joy of the experience itself? isn't anyone here addicted to making money - it feels amazing. anyways - it's glad to see that one girl and this guy writing all these posts and weeding out the non-serious people. lionhearted's comment is spot on - Not very many people go all out to be a billionaire. If posts like these keep proliferating the numbers might go down even more.
aufreak3 16y ago
Going by what the Gates family is doing these days, running for billionaire seems a heck of a fun roller coaster ride to raising funds for the kinds of betterment of the world that you care about. The other options being running for president or prime minister.

58 points by hernan7 16y ago

> What we're really talking about here, in its extreme form, is Wealth Anorexia--a disease of distorted self-image that causes even the wildly successful to pursue their obsession beyond a reasonable point. ... Wealth anorexia is a problem for men. There's no evidence that this is a common problem that negatively affects people's lives. The most common result of trying extremely hard to be ridiculously rich is becoming modestly successful, except for the cases in which someone throws their entire life savings into a business that fails. I doubt that is common. The allure of parallelism has lead the author to an odd and inaccurate metaphor.

vishaldpatel 16y ago
Location location location. Where there are more eligible men than women - men have to work harder.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Even in those places where women outnumber men, men still outnumber desirable women, so hard work still pays off. I suppose if women outnumbered men by four to one then men might be able to slack off... except such a society would almost certainly reinstitute polygamy, so men would have to work harder than ever to compete for quality and quantity of wives.
sgman 16y ago
"The most common result of trying extremely hard to be ridiculously rich is becoming modestly successful" The most common result of trying extremely hard to be ridiculously thin is becoming modestly healthy. The analogy stands.
- natrius 16y ago
  I disagree. I don't think many people at all try to become ridiculously thin. Plus, such attempts rarely lead to good health, which is why eating disorders are such a big issue.
  - ugh 16y ago
    Trying extremely hard is not without health risks, physiological and psychological.
  - sgman 16y ago
    Just as "ridiculously rich" is relative (for some people in 3rd world countries it could be having a few thousand dollars) so is "ridiculously thin" (for someone weighing 350 pounds this could be weighing 250 pounds). And I would argue that achieving this goal, in general, leads to better health. This is not to say that exceptions which lead to poor results don't exist in both cases, which makes the correlation even stronger.
    - natrius 16y ago
      You're stretching this metaphor further and further into absurdity. The author of the post wonders why "wealth anorexia" doesn't get similar attention to that of actual anorexia. The answer is because anorexia actually has negative effects on the lives of many people. "Wealth anorexia" does not.
joe_the_user 16y ago
The most common result of trying extremely hard to be ridiculously rich is becoming modestly successful, except for the cases in which someone throws their entire life savings into a business that fails. I doubt that is common. I can't tell you exactly how common it is. But one have to imagine that the sale of lottery tickets is strongly motivated by the desire to become ridiculously wealthy. This isn't something that generally results in improved savings...

aidenn0 16y ago

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather be poor than be Larry Ellison.

hugh3 16y ago
Why is that?
- jacoblyles 16y ago
  Because Larry Ellison has different beliefs on patents than what is generally accepted in this crowd. So of course, it would be a horror to be him.
- byw 16y ago
  I get the impression that he's deeply discontent. He's always doing things to prove himself. Warren Buffett on the other hand I wouldn't mind, he seems to have things figured out.
philk 16y ago
You're right. Billions of dollars, fancy toys and a hot wife. I don't know how he makes it through the day.
- nlogn 16y ago
  Having what Larry Ellison has is not the same thing as being Larry Ellison.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
ghjjj 16y ago
If you were Larry Ellison, you'd like being Larry Ellison.

rwhitman 16y ago

If this is a real problem I'd say it applies less to successful entrepreneurs who try too hard, but more for semi-successful middle-managers and sales people etc who put themselves in debt to gain the appearance of wealth. I mean isn't this partly the root cause for the housing bubble and subsequent collapse? When you walk into a swanky club, the guys getting bottle service, that buy Range Rovers and overpriced condos they have to make ridiculous payments on - I would say these are the guys with wealth anorexia.

Marticus 16y ago

I just really liked one of the comments: "(Steve Jobs = Angelina Jolie; Mark Zuckerberg = Scarlett Johansson; who's Paris Hilton?) Well, Paris Hilton is pretty but dumb. So the "wealth anorexia" version would be someone who's insanely rich, but dumb. So Paris Hilton is... Paris Hilton."

Synthetase 16y ago

Money makes a wonderful servant and a terrible master. You have to ask yourself, is money what you're after or a simulacrum for something else? I suspect for most people its the latter.

tomjen3 16y ago
Money can buy political power, and chicks dig people with power. So yeah, it is a simulacrum for something else - hot girls.

lionhearted 16y ago

> I felt compelled to point out that the chances of becoming a billionaire were pretty darn slim. There's something subtle here I disagree with... "chances of becoming a billionaire" - chance is involved, but so is choice. I see this a lot, people talking about becoming a billionaire as if it's a random thing. How many people make a serious commitment to becoming a billionaire, research how to do it, manage their time, and actively try? I'll wager - not too many. I've crunched the numbers on what it'd take to be a billionaire, and I'm not interested in putting in that time - I have science and art and writing to do. But I think I could if I set my mind to it. Or maybe not! But how many people actually look at what it'd take to become a billionaire, say, "Okay, I'm willing to do all of the first steps, then keep taking risks, investing wisely, consumingly moderate/lowly, and so on." How many people try, and how many of them succeed? I'll wager not many try, and quite a lot of those who seriously try succeed. Edit: About his general point about "wealth anorexia" - yeah, it's just money, not something worth evaluating yourself by. Make a lot of money because there's no real reason not to make a lot of money, so long as you're doing it by creating things people want and getting a small fraction of the value you create in return. This is a common point I see - people who aren't single-minded don't understand single-minded people. I tried to cover it here - http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/?p=107 http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/?p=107 - "Rule an Empire, a Fistful of Rice" - it's with excerpts from the Lone Wolf and Cub comic as an argument and eventual duel between two fallen samurai. The first is telling the second that he's doing bad things for money, and why does he need the money? No matter how much money you have, your belly only holds one fistful of rice. But he doesn't understand that people who build empires are very aware of that - the money is a tool for doing other things. Me, I'd like to make at least hundreds of millions so I can sponsor research, build hospitals, build universities, build temples, commission art and support artists, get great engineers working on amazing projects... a friend said he'd be happy making $80k and can't think of anything else he'd do with it. I said - really? Work on curing diseases, sponsor arts, build a private military and go dismantle the North Korean government? I can think of lots of things I'd do with a hell of a lot of money...

Jun8 16y ago
Excellent blog entry you have there, although I tend to agree more with Sakon: We should not disregard "higher principles", whatever those may be (religion, samurai code, etc.), otherwise, what good are the things that being single-minded brings us? I am curious, what happens to Daigoro?

deco 16y ago

I think it's worth noting that someone who develops an eating disorder like anorexia is mostly hurting themselves through emotional distress and physical damage to their body. The emotional pain their friends and family experience when such a disorder takes hold of a loved one is part of the situation as well. When someone pursues the goal of becoming ridiculously rich they get into the position of being able to inflict great financial and emotional pain on a much larger number of people. The Enron executives who contributed to the destruction of many people's pensions and heads of state who siphon government funds to support their royal lifestyles while their citizens starve are two prime examples. I'm not trying to trivialize eating disorders nor am I saying that pursuit of wealth is inherently bad, but history has numerous examples of how greed can cause people to carry out extremely inhumane actions that affect large numbers of other people.

phren0logy 16y ago

Speaking as someone who treats anorexia, this is a deeply flawed metaphor. Anorexia is not only about self-image but often about control, particularly controlling the one thing that is extremely difficult for other people to force you to do: eat. It is more often rooted in control than mere vanity or jealousy. It is not the same, even as a shallow metaphor, as desiring to be wealthy.

hugh3 16y ago
Interesting. The idea that gets spread around about anorexics is that they honestly believe themselves to be too fat, even when they're dangerously underweight. Are you saying that's not really the case? (It always seemed iffy to me...)
- phren0logy 16y ago
  No, the distorted body image is absolutely a part of it. But it's just one part of several that make anorexia what it is. It is a complex problem, and not well reduced to one element.

tdmackey 16y ago

Even if the people who actually become billionaires are small those who attempt and fail are often better off than they started. The middle ground between ones current status in life and reaching billionaire status is an immense landscape with many opportunities. In contrast to the counterpoint in his article the middle ground between playing basketball in say high school playing in the NBA is very slim; it is very much an all or nothing game where as the quest for wealth is vastly opposite.

sabj 16y ago

25 Comments, no one has yet pointed out the fact that one might not want to be Larry Ellison... ;) That said, I would like to have Larry Ellison's money.

switch 16y ago

what about people who want to money for the the joy of the experience itself? isn't anyone here addicted to making money - it feels amazing. anyways - it's glad to see that one girl and this guy writing all these posts and weeding out the non-serious people. lionhearted's comment is spot on - Not very many people go all out to be a billionaire. If posts like these keep proliferating the numbers might go down even more.

aufreak3 16y ago

Going by what the Gates family is doing these days, running for billionaire seems a heck of a fun roller coaster ride to raising funds for the kinds of betterment of the world that you care about. The other options being running for president or prime minister.