10 ms·

A few years ago I couldn’t tell you the name of a Chinese company off the top of my head, now I can not only rattle of a list, they’re companies I’ve worked wit

by xir78 9y ago

A few years ago I couldn’t tell you the name of a Chinese company off the top of my head, now I can not only rattle of a list, they’re companies I’ve worked with or have significant investments in companies in the US. I also have a roster of WeChat contacts. I also work with multiple ex-pats that fled fearing for their life due to persecution based on their religion (Falung Gong), and laugh at how freaked people are about an insignificant Trump compared to a truly vicious government.

linkmotif 9y ago
If it makes sense, would you please elaborate the connection between these two thoughts?
- clacke2 9y ago
  1. China is gaining in relevance. 2. People don't understand that they should worry about this.
  - latch 9y ago
    1. Like many countries, China has long been relevant. Like many countries, China has long been gaining relevance. 2. Because they shouldn't If instead of treating global economy as a zero-sum game, and if we backed off from the fear mongering and admitted that China's economic growth has largely (and unsurprisingly) been to most people's benefits, then we'd welcome the competition and innovation and productivity that China has and will continue to provide.
    - richard___ 9y ago
      Telling that you've been downvoted.
    - ben_w 9y ago
      Religious persecution doesn’t disappear just because of economic growth. Neither does discrimination against sexual preferences (+). That’s the fear expressed above. (+) unless you limit your knowledge of sexual preferences to just gay/straight — human sexuality is much more complicated than that.
      - chvid 9y ago
        Actually it does - history is full of examples of just that. As the middle class grows in economic terms, it grows in political influence and the overall values of the society changes to accommodate that class. Introduction of democracy and women’s rights in Europe are good examples.
        cabalamat 9y ago
        China may be different. Their planned social credit reputation system, coupled with ubiquitous surveillance, may make it impossible for public opinion in China to force the Chinese government to liberalise. In the past, the West has had a massive advantage because: (1) their econpomic system was better than everyone else's, and (2) in order to modernise, other cultures have had to adopt some of the West's characteristics, including a greater level of freedom of speech/thought than in other societies. The combination meant that the West had few serious ideological competitors. But if China becomes the world's biggest economy, if it continues to increase its economy so its per capita GDP is the same as in the USA and western Europe, and it does this while still being an autocracy, things will get very very serious. The future may well be a jackboot stamping on a human face forever.
        chvid 9y ago
        Maybe. But china’s overall path is towards more democracy and civil liberty. Compare tianamen square 30 years ago with the handling of the Hong Kong protests.
        coldtea 9y ago
        Or, maybe, compare Tianamen square with Kent state, the Chicago '68 democratic convention, and so on.
        dctoedt 9y ago
        After both Chicago '68 and the Kent State shooting, there was immediate, extensive blowback in the American press and public. Quite the opposite happened in China after Tiananmen Square. (Of course, all of the above were decades ago, so we need to keep an open mind about the condition today in the respective countries.)
    - org3432 9y ago
      Turns out economics, like rational thought on what's best, doesn't naturally prevail.
  - lloeki 9y ago
    > Laissez donc la Chine dormir, car lorsque la Chine s'éveillera le monde entier tremblera > Let China thusly slumber, for when China wakes up the world will shiver — Napoleon 1er
  - herbst 9y ago
    Why is this particularly a reason to worry? I for one welcome a well needed fresh wind in our global ecosystem.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Well, those that lose their 1st place might not welcome it as much...
    - tenpies 9y ago
      Because as much as people love to hate on the West and its faults, it is also the most tolerant system and allows for the most freedom in every category. The Chinese do not value things like freedom or tolerance very much, especially if they conflict with order. The value of the individual is also extremely low, whereas the West held the individual as the most valuable thing until just recently when group identities became incredibly important for the sake of skin-deep diversity. It will be interesting to see how that continues to creep into Western culture.
      - moltar 9y ago
        Just a reminder that slavery was abolished in 1865, 153 years ago. And recently, lots of laws have been passed restricting freedom. NSA has been watching your every move. The west only has freedom on paper. And countries change and adapt.
        mieseratte 9y ago
        > The west only has freedom on paper. Let me know when they start black-bagging dissidents for speaking up a bit too much. There are festering problems regarding surveillance in the West, and the prison system is a bit much here in the US, but "freedom on paper" is a load of BS.
        jazzyk 9y ago
        >"freedom on paper" is a load of BS “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....” - Noam Chomsky
ksec 9y ago
>about an insignificant Trump compared to a truly vicious government Which is true. But most US citizen doesn't realize how their system, while extremely bureaucratic in nature, protect real bad things from happening. There both have upside and downside. Only History will tell.
- anc84 9y ago
  * causes real bad things to happen Fixed that for you. Do I need to get the CIA and various wars lists from Wikipedia?
  - Noos 9y ago
    oh FFS, compare that to the cultural revolution, which ended in 1976. the whataboutism here is annoying; while we were debating and agonizing over the impact of the vietnam war, China was busy imprisoning, torturing, and relocating its own citizens over ideology. It created a culture of children informing on their own parents. I wish people would realize how much they have dodged a bullet by growing up in western nations.
    - Hydraulix989 9y ago
      Not only do they torture them, they harvest their organs (sometimes while they are alive for "freshness"). China is on a whole different level.
      - freeflight 9y ago
        Got any sources for that? Many of these claims remind me far too much about stories about babies being thrown out of incubators and whatnot.
        Hydraulix989 9y ago
        I think it's pretty believable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...
iforgotpassword 9y ago
Ah yes, a topic about China and the top comment is some American spreading the usual fud about how China is the pure evil, like it has been engrained into their brains from the day they were born. Sad to see hn is no better than reddit these days.
- coldtea 9y ago
  Especially since throughout the 20th and 21st century, it wasn't China who was a constant global cop/aggressor, invading countries, spreading "democracy", meddling in Latin America, Asia, Middle East AND Europe, and so on...
  - dash2 9y ago
    China did not have the power before. Who knows how it will act when it does? It's treatment of Tibet, invaded in 1948 and still occupied, is not encouraging.
    - oblio 9y ago
      It used to have this power and it turned all the countries in its neighborhood into tributary states. Which, all things considered, was not that bad, since it was overall a peaceful and stable relationship. Hard to say how Communist China as a superpower will differ from Imperial China, though...
      - eyeinthepyramid 9y ago
        If you look at how Communist China treats minority populations as a blueprint, it's not encouraging.
        coldtea 9y ago
        So like blacks?
        9y ago
ataturk 9y ago
Such bs--nobody in the US .gov is persecuting people based on their religion. The US is trying very hard to protect its citizens while still being a beacon of hope to refugees and emigres. The problem is that there is tremendous demand to get to the US because well, it's not currently as bad a place to live as wherever they are coming from. As far as Islam goes, if Muslims would like to act decent and get up with the 21st century and not usurp and undermine our country and non-Muslims, then the are welcome to be here and nobody is going to bother them and we aren't. On the other hand, if you're coming to the US looking for trouble or to create your Caliphate or what have you, well, the gloves are off. Americans have to have a peaceful place to live and we work hard to build nice communities.
romanovcode 9y ago
Yeah, and Snowden had so fun time and didn't had to flee and hide from U.S. for the rest of his life at all!
- anthonybsd 9y ago
  There is a world of a difference between spilling out state secrets, a crime in any Western democracy and simply voicing your displeasure with the government. False equivalence much?

by xir78 9y ago

linkmotif 9y ago

If it makes sense, would you please elaborate the connection between these two thoughts?

clacke2 9y ago
1. China is gaining in relevance. 2. People don't understand that they should worry about this.
- latch 9y ago
  1. Like many countries, China has long been relevant. Like many countries, China has long been gaining relevance. 2. Because they shouldn't If instead of treating global economy as a zero-sum game, and if we backed off from the fear mongering and admitted that China's economic growth has largely (and unsurprisingly) been to most people's benefits, then we'd welcome the competition and innovation and productivity that China has and will continue to provide.
  - richard___ 9y ago
    Telling that you've been downvoted.
  - ben_w 9y ago
    Religious persecution doesn’t disappear just because of economic growth. Neither does discrimination against sexual preferences (+). That’s the fear expressed above. (+) unless you limit your knowledge of sexual preferences to just gay/straight — human sexuality is much more complicated than that.
    - chvid 9y ago
      Actually it does - history is full of examples of just that. As the middle class grows in economic terms, it grows in political influence and the overall values of the society changes to accommodate that class. Introduction of democracy and women’s rights in Europe are good examples.
      - cabalamat 9y ago
        China may be different. Their planned social credit reputation system, coupled with ubiquitous surveillance, may make it impossible for public opinion in China to force the Chinese government to liberalise. In the past, the West has had a massive advantage because: (1) their econpomic system was better than everyone else's, and (2) in order to modernise, other cultures have had to adopt some of the West's characteristics, including a greater level of freedom of speech/thought than in other societies. The combination meant that the West had few serious ideological competitors. But if China becomes the world's biggest economy, if it continues to increase its economy so its per capita GDP is the same as in the USA and western Europe, and it does this while still being an autocracy, things will get very very serious. The future may well be a jackboot stamping on a human face forever.
        chvid 9y ago
        Maybe. But china’s overall path is towards more democracy and civil liberty. Compare tianamen square 30 years ago with the handling of the Hong Kong protests.
        coldtea 9y ago
        Or, maybe, compare Tianamen square with Kent state, the Chicago '68 democratic convention, and so on.
        dctoedt 9y ago
        After both Chicago '68 and the Kent State shooting, there was immediate, extensive blowback in the American press and public. Quite the opposite happened in China after Tiananmen Square. (Of course, all of the above were decades ago, so we need to keep an open mind about the condition today in the respective countries.)
  - org3432 9y ago
    Turns out economics, like rational thought on what's best, doesn't naturally prevail.
- lloeki 9y ago
  > Laissez donc la Chine dormir, car lorsque la Chine s'éveillera le monde entier tremblera > Let China thusly slumber, for when China wakes up the world will shiver — Napoleon 1er
- herbst 9y ago
  Why is this particularly a reason to worry? I for one welcome a well needed fresh wind in our global ecosystem.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Well, those that lose their 1st place might not welcome it as much...
  - tenpies 9y ago
    Because as much as people love to hate on the West and its faults, it is also the most tolerant system and allows for the most freedom in every category. The Chinese do not value things like freedom or tolerance very much, especially if they conflict with order. The value of the individual is also extremely low, whereas the West held the individual as the most valuable thing until just recently when group identities became incredibly important for the sake of skin-deep diversity. It will be interesting to see how that continues to creep into Western culture.
    - moltar 9y ago
      Just a reminder that slavery was abolished in 1865, 153 years ago. And recently, lots of laws have been passed restricting freedom. NSA has been watching your every move. The west only has freedom on paper. And countries change and adapt.
      - mieseratte 9y ago
        > The west only has freedom on paper. Let me know when they start black-bagging dissidents for speaking up a bit too much. There are festering problems regarding surveillance in the West, and the prison system is a bit much here in the US, but "freedom on paper" is a load of BS.
        jazzyk 9y ago
        >"freedom on paper" is a load of BS “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....” - Noam Chomsky

ksec 9y ago

>about an insignificant Trump compared to a truly vicious government Which is true. But most US citizen doesn't realize how their system, while extremely bureaucratic in nature, protect real bad things from happening. There both have upside and downside. Only History will tell.

anc84 9y ago
* causes real bad things to happen Fixed that for you. Do I need to get the CIA and various wars lists from Wikipedia?
- Noos 9y ago
  oh FFS, compare that to the cultural revolution, which ended in 1976. the whataboutism here is annoying; while we were debating and agonizing over the impact of the vietnam war, China was busy imprisoning, torturing, and relocating its own citizens over ideology. It created a culture of children informing on their own parents. I wish people would realize how much they have dodged a bullet by growing up in western nations.
  - Hydraulix989 9y ago
    Not only do they torture them, they harvest their organs (sometimes while they are alive for "freshness"). China is on a whole different level.
    - freeflight 9y ago
      Got any sources for that? Many of these claims remind me far too much about stories about babies being thrown out of incubators and whatnot.
      - Hydraulix989 9y ago
        I think it's pretty believable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

iforgotpassword 9y ago

Ah yes, a topic about China and the top comment is some American spreading the usual fud about how China is the pure evil, like it has been engrained into their brains from the day they were born. Sad to see hn is no better than reddit these days.

coldtea 9y ago
Especially since throughout the 20th and 21st century, it wasn't China who was a constant global cop/aggressor, invading countries, spreading "democracy", meddling in Latin America, Asia, Middle East AND Europe, and so on...
- dash2 9y ago
  China did not have the power before. Who knows how it will act when it does? It's treatment of Tibet, invaded in 1948 and still occupied, is not encouraging.
  - oblio 9y ago
    It used to have this power and it turned all the countries in its neighborhood into tributary states. Which, all things considered, was not that bad, since it was overall a peaceful and stable relationship. Hard to say how Communist China as a superpower will differ from Imperial China, though...
    - eyeinthepyramid 9y ago
      If you look at how Communist China treats minority populations as a blueprint, it's not encouraging.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        So like blacks?
        9y ago

ataturk 9y ago

Such bs--nobody in the US .gov is persecuting people based on their religion. The US is trying very hard to protect its citizens while still being a beacon of hope to refugees and emigres. The problem is that there is tremendous demand to get to the US because well, it's not currently as bad a place to live as wherever they are coming from. As far as Islam goes, if Muslims would like to act decent and get up with the 21st century and not usurp and undermine our country and non-Muslims, then the are welcome to be here and nobody is going to bother them and we aren't. On the other hand, if you're coming to the US looking for trouble or to create your Caliphate or what have you, well, the gloves are off. Americans have to have a peaceful place to live and we work hard to build nice communities.

romanovcode 9y ago

Yeah, and Snowden had so fun time and didn't had to flee and hide from U.S. for the rest of his life at all!

anthonybsd 9y ago
There is a world of a difference between spilling out state secrets, a crime in any Western democracy and simply voicing your displeasure with the government. False equivalence much?