5 ms·

User succumbs to a seizure in virtual reality while other players can only watch

60 points by atomicnumber1 9y ago

randomdrake 9y ago
VRChat was released last year and has been picking up momentum all over the place. If you have not had the chance to see what it's like, it's worth at least checking out as an observer. The worlds and experiences are reminiscent of Stephenson's Snow Crash or Cline's Ready Player One in so many ways. It's eery, fascinating, and altogether odd. Add on top of this that spectators, sometimes in the thousands, watch these virtual experiences live on Twitch.tv, and you have a very "we're in the future" feeling. You can check out plenty of live streams of people experiencing this on Twitch.tv now: https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/VRChat https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/VRChat
- tlrobinson 9y ago
  I wonder why Second Life hasn’t been more aggressive capitalizing on VR. It seems like they were perfectly positioned for it.
  - aphextron 9y ago
    The founder of Linden Labs, Philip Rosedale, recently released his new VR only successor to second life, Sansar (https://atlas.sansar.com/ https://atlas.sansar.com/). It seems pretty promising.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  >The worlds and experiences are reminiscent of Stephenson's Snow Crash or Cline's Ready Player One in so many ways. It's eery, fascinating, and altogether odd. It looks more like VR Idiocracy to me. Especially if you check out twitch and see donation stuff and stream overlays. It's just a platform for vomiting memes. https://imgur.com/ZkJq1cr https://imgur.com/ZkJq1cr On the other hand, if it were super-serious-Deus-Ex-plotting-the-control-of-the-proletariat-VR-Chat, I don't think I could take that seriously either (and would be quickly overrun with Uganda knuckles anyway).
  - randomdrake 9y ago
    There's more to it than simply what you see at first glance. Snow Crash and Ready Player One described the experience at length. The freedom of expression, of identity of who or what you could be. The ways that people talk, interact, explore, and represent themselves in the virtual realities of those books is more than just "how it looks." Some concrete examples are pulling up virtual windows to access resources from "outside" the reality, or the multitude of sizes and shapes that people represent themselves with. The descriptions of what earlier versions of the virtual realities in Snow Crash or Ready Player One were, line up with the basics that VRChat encompasses. Those are some of the things I was addressing when I said it was reminiscent.
rjbwork 9y ago
The person in that super color flashing psychedelic wendy's costume is a real asshole. That is probably what caused his episode. Then, when he's all seized up with the headset on, she's sitting in front of him and doing all kinds of crazy moves.
- jey 9y ago
  > That is probably what caused his episode. Photosensitive epilepsy is a real thing, but this is just speculation.
  - rjbwork 9y ago
    It is speculation, but it's not uncommon. I remember about, oh 10 years ago or so, someone attacked an epilepsy forum with a flashing image - the forum had images set to display inline and voila - headaches, and various other ailments beset the community. I don't think there were any seizures proper, per se, from that episode.
- sergers 9y ago
  I don't see any mallace in the video. They have no idea what is happening to the guy truly, and we don't know what set it off. If you have proof, or more info please cite. Noone knows what set this person off, it could be not related to visuals. Yes, that person is dancing in front, but as soon as someone says to move away any flashing LED costumes, that person moved. If that person was an asshole truly, they wouldn't have moved when asked to do so
  - floatingatoll 9y ago
    > They have no idea what is happening to the guy truly Either they're intentionally wearing a seizure-inducing costume, or they're not. It's impossible to be certain, but that's no reason to drop the topic altogether. > If you have proof, or more info > Noone knows what set this person off These are extremely odd questions to ask in this context, and imply significant insider knowledge about this community. Can you give us the context we're missing that helps us understand your background with flashing LED costumes? > If that person was an asshole truly, they wouldn't have moved Incorrect. Behaving politely and saying "oh, I'm so sorry" is the appropriate action to take, but offers no guidance whatsoever as to their intention. Was their intention to trigger seizures in others, or were they oblivious to the problem when they designed the costume? We don't have the evidence to say with certainty what the user's intentions were, and probably never will. But we still need to have a conversation about seizures and user intentions. This is the human brain we're snow crashing, not just a program, and we owe it to ourselves to try harder to solve this problem. Intentions must be assumed sporadically malicious, as with all Internet-based things, and we should have — and have not — protected these folks from harm. EDIT: Direct accusations about the individual aren't cool outside of their tight-knit community, because it's not our place to pass judgement or step in as moderators in their (VR-based) forum. It's still okay to discuss culpability of both parties in general and especially in VR and so forth. This is Hacker News. What can we hack together that can be used to filter seizures? Is there a photosensitive material that reacts to strobing by going dark until the strobing stops? Be the first to the finish line to make the danger-sensitive glasses from Hitchhiker's Guide!
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tlrobinson 9y ago
There’s a “Black Mirror” episode in there somewhere...
amelius 9y ago
Could the VR have triggered the seizure? That's one aspect I would have expected in the article.
- sergers 9y ago
  I think it definitely could have, but it's very hard to determine the trigger for a seizure. It could not be related to any triggers too (audio/visual). It can only be identified by review of the person who it happened to... The rest of us are just speculating, and no point in that :) Systems, including VR, should have an option to disable/slowdown fast paced color switching on a end-user level of they are known to be susceptible to seizures with visual triggers
btown 9y ago
> Rogue Shadow VR says he caught up with the player afterwards on Steam, and that he is doing better now. Since one of the definitions of "succumb" is "die from the effect of a disease or injury," this title is more than a little clickbaity! Mods, can you potentially edit to "User has seizure..."?
- Klathmon 9y ago
  Another is to "fail to resist", and I don't think the title is trying to imply the user died (at least I didn't read it that way at all).
- chesimov 9y ago
  I also associate succumb with die for some reason, although I'm not sure why. Maybe in the newspapers if they say 'x succumbed to their injuries' it would imply that?
  - berberous 9y ago
    If you succumb to cancer or another often fatal disease - "fail to resist" it -- that clearly has to mean death. If you succumb to a cold -- failing to resist it just means you are stuck in bed with a bad cold. So I think it's probably because you are used to hearing it used with more serious illnesses, and in your mind a seizure is closer to cancer than a cold.
    - Buttes13 9y ago
      You can absolutely die from a seizure. Very appropriate language IMHO.
United857 9y ago
Misleading headline -- the person managed to survive and didn't "succumb" (die)
- fao_ 9y ago
  1. To submit to an overpowering force or yield to an overwhelming desire; give up or give in. See 'yield'. 2. To die, especially from a disease or injury.
- JshWright 9y ago
  Just because "succumb" is euphemistically used to refer to death doesn't mean it's the only meaning. Perhaps "Users suffers a seizure..." would have been a better phrasing though.
  - CodeWriter23 9y ago
    Not for driving clicks.
- petraeus 9y ago
  succumb only means failed to prevent it in no way means die, you literally need to add "die" into the sentence to indicate death succumbed to fear <> die succumbed to love <> die etc
chrisper 9y ago
What is it with twitch and other game streamers all having crazy colored hair? What am I missing?

60 points by atomicnumber1 9y ago

VRChat was released last year and has been picking up momentum all over the place. If you have not had the chance to see what it's like, it's worth at least checking out as an observer. The worlds and experiences are reminiscent of Stephenson's Snow Crash or Cline's Ready Player One in so many ways. It's eery, fascinating, and altogether odd. Add on top of this that spectators, sometimes in the thousands, watch these virtual experiences live on Twitch.tv, and you have a very "we're in the future" feeling. You can check out plenty of live streams of people experiencing this on Twitch.tv now: https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/VRChat https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/VRChat

tlrobinson 9y ago
I wonder why Second Life hasn’t been more aggressive capitalizing on VR. It seems like they were perfectly positioned for it.
- aphextron 9y ago
  The founder of Linden Labs, Philip Rosedale, recently released his new VR only successor to second life, Sansar (https://atlas.sansar.com/ https://atlas.sansar.com/). It seems pretty promising.
FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>The worlds and experiences are reminiscent of Stephenson's Snow Crash or Cline's Ready Player One in so many ways. It's eery, fascinating, and altogether odd. It looks more like VR Idiocracy to me. Especially if you check out twitch and see donation stuff and stream overlays. It's just a platform for vomiting memes. https://imgur.com/ZkJq1cr https://imgur.com/ZkJq1cr On the other hand, if it were super-serious-Deus-Ex-plotting-the-control-of-the-proletariat-VR-Chat, I don't think I could take that seriously either (and would be quickly overrun with Uganda knuckles anyway).
- randomdrake 9y ago
  There's more to it than simply what you see at first glance. Snow Crash and Ready Player One described the experience at length. The freedom of expression, of identity of who or what you could be. The ways that people talk, interact, explore, and represent themselves in the virtual realities of those books is more than just "how it looks." Some concrete examples are pulling up virtual windows to access resources from "outside" the reality, or the multitude of sizes and shapes that people represent themselves with. The descriptions of what earlier versions of the virtual realities in Snow Crash or Ready Player One were, line up with the basics that VRChat encompasses. Those are some of the things I was addressing when I said it was reminiscent.

rjbwork 9y ago

The person in that super color flashing psychedelic wendy's costume is a real asshole. That is probably what caused his episode. Then, when he's all seized up with the headset on, she's sitting in front of him and doing all kinds of crazy moves.

jey 9y ago
> That is probably what caused his episode. Photosensitive epilepsy is a real thing, but this is just speculation.
- rjbwork 9y ago
  It is speculation, but it's not uncommon. I remember about, oh 10 years ago or so, someone attacked an epilepsy forum with a flashing image - the forum had images set to display inline and voila - headaches, and various other ailments beset the community. I don't think there were any seizures proper, per se, from that episode.
sergers 9y ago
I don't see any mallace in the video. They have no idea what is happening to the guy truly, and we don't know what set it off. If you have proof, or more info please cite. Noone knows what set this person off, it could be not related to visuals. Yes, that person is dancing in front, but as soon as someone says to move away any flashing LED costumes, that person moved. If that person was an asshole truly, they wouldn't have moved when asked to do so
- floatingatoll 9y ago
  > They have no idea what is happening to the guy truly Either they're intentionally wearing a seizure-inducing costume, or they're not. It's impossible to be certain, but that's no reason to drop the topic altogether. > If you have proof, or more info > Noone knows what set this person off These are extremely odd questions to ask in this context, and imply significant insider knowledge about this community. Can you give us the context we're missing that helps us understand your background with flashing LED costumes? > If that person was an asshole truly, they wouldn't have moved Incorrect. Behaving politely and saying "oh, I'm so sorry" is the appropriate action to take, but offers no guidance whatsoever as to their intention. Was their intention to trigger seizures in others, or were they oblivious to the problem when they designed the costume? We don't have the evidence to say with certainty what the user's intentions were, and probably never will. But we still need to have a conversation about seizures and user intentions. This is the human brain we're snow crashing, not just a program, and we owe it to ourselves to try harder to solve this problem. Intentions must be assumed sporadically malicious, as with all Internet-based things, and we should have — and have not — protected these folks from harm. EDIT: Direct accusations about the individual aren't cool outside of their tight-knit community, because it's not our place to pass judgement or step in as moderators in their (VR-based) forum. It's still okay to discuss culpability of both parties in general and especially in VR and so forth. This is Hacker News. What can we hack together that can be used to filter seizures? Is there a photosensitive material that reacts to strobing by going dark until the strobing stops? Be the first to the finish line to make the danger-sensitive glasses from Hitchhiker's Guide!

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tlrobinson 9y ago

There’s a “Black Mirror” episode in there somewhere...

amelius 9y ago

Could the VR have triggered the seizure? That's one aspect I would have expected in the article.

sergers 9y ago
I think it definitely could have, but it's very hard to determine the trigger for a seizure. It could not be related to any triggers too (audio/visual). It can only be identified by review of the person who it happened to... The rest of us are just speculating, and no point in that :) Systems, including VR, should have an option to disable/slowdown fast paced color switching on a end-user level of they are known to be susceptible to seizures with visual triggers

btown 9y ago

> Rogue Shadow VR says he caught up with the player afterwards on Steam, and that he is doing better now. Since one of the definitions of "succumb" is "die from the effect of a disease or injury," this title is more than a little clickbaity! Mods, can you potentially edit to "User has seizure..."?

Klathmon 9y ago
Another is to "fail to resist", and I don't think the title is trying to imply the user died (at least I didn't read it that way at all).
chesimov 9y ago
I also associate succumb with die for some reason, although I'm not sure why. Maybe in the newspapers if they say 'x succumbed to their injuries' it would imply that?
- berberous 9y ago
  If you succumb to cancer or another often fatal disease - "fail to resist" it -- that clearly has to mean death. If you succumb to a cold -- failing to resist it just means you are stuck in bed with a bad cold. So I think it's probably because you are used to hearing it used with more serious illnesses, and in your mind a seizure is closer to cancer than a cold.
  - Buttes13 9y ago
    You can absolutely die from a seizure. Very appropriate language IMHO.

United857 9y ago

Misleading headline -- the person managed to survive and didn't "succumb" (die)

fao_ 9y ago
1. To submit to an overpowering force or yield to an overwhelming desire; give up or give in. See 'yield'. 2. To die, especially from a disease or injury.
JshWright 9y ago
Just because "succumb" is euphemistically used to refer to death doesn't mean it's the only meaning. Perhaps "Users suffers a seizure..." would have been a better phrasing though.
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  Not for driving clicks.
petraeus 9y ago
succumb only means failed to prevent it in no way means die, you literally need to add "die" into the sentence to indicate death succumbed to fear <> die succumbed to love <> die etc

chrisper 9y ago

What is it with twitch and other game streamers all having crazy colored hair? What am I missing?