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The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly an
by mabbo 9y ago
The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them.
It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried.
Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just because the affordability of everything is falling for them. The result is the same.
- felipemnoa 9y ago>>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Doesn't this just create an illegal distribution network that sells them cheaper?
- phoe-krk 9y agoNowhere to get cheaper tobacco from, nothing to distribute cheaper.
- draw_down 9y agoHow about, I dunno, Turkey?
- johnchristopher 9y agohttp://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/nyregion/tobacco-companies-broke-law-by-selling-untaxed-cigarettes-judge-rules.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/nyregion/tobacco-companies... > The city has argued that the availability of cheaper cigarettes is a public health concern because taxes were in part a way to discourage smoking. There's also that story about that manfacturer smuggling cigarettes into a country I can't remember to avoid paying taxes.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Moru 9y agoYou can always steal them.
- pxeboot 9y agoAt least in the US, you can still buy cigarettes really cheap on Indian reservations and states like West Virginia.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoSame in Washington.
- Grue3 9y agoIn late USSR and 90s Russia, smuggled cigarettes were absolutely a thing.
- xvedejas 9y agoIt does a bit of both. Cigarettes become both more expensive for everyone, and there exists incentive for a black market which is necessarily cheaper than the legitimate market (otherwise why have it?), but still more expensive than a tax-free market (you can't reach the same efficiency as a legal, tax-free market).
- exlurker 9y agoNot only that. Cigging is just not cool anymore, it's looked down upon. At least where I live. But high taxes work, too.
- sergers 9y agoIncreased taxes don't have effect on people with poor life choices. I have a few colleagues who are way behind paycheck to paycheck, but will always have smokes. They would rather have a pack or 2 and skip meals not being able to afford them (packs costing ~$13 cad).
- toomuchtodo 9y agoIndeed. The only solution is subsidized rehabilitation or elimination of tobacco (the latter I intend to kickstart, to fund the use of CRISPR to gene drive a detrimental gene in tobacco). If we can do it with mosquitoes, no reason we can’t use it against tobacco.
- mnx 9y agoThat sounds like a really bad idea. Also, you can make synthetic nicotine. So eliminating tobacco wouldn't help.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoNicotine, while highly addictive, would still cause far less damage to its users if consumed through a patch, gum or e-cigarette. I’m disrupting a suboptimal consumption method.
- mirimir 9y agoIndeed. The last time that I quit tobacco, I kept chewing nicotine gum for several months. To get the attention-focusing effect. But I really don't like chewing gum, and so gave it up. And modafinil is better, anyway.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 9y agoCongratulations on quitting!
- dmix 9y ago> The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. [citation needed] I grew up with plenty of poor high school kids who had no problem finding cigarettes even when the taxes were jacked up on them here in Canada. I know many of them as adults who continued to smoke even as the price has continued to climb over the last 10yrs. I've never heard anyone say they quit smoking because it was too expensive. It was merely a perk of quitting. Especially considering it's always been an irrational and escapist habit. I also smoked for years and I can't imagine the price being $5 vs $11 would have had any effect on my decision. High prices via taxes was merely an additional burden, a burden usually placed on people who are in the most need of money. The only two major change I've seen in recent years pushing people off cigarettes is a) it's no longer cool and b) e-cigarettes
- kjksf 9y agoCitation: "Most studies found that raising cigarette prices through increased taxes is a highly effective measure for reducing smoking among youth, young adults, and persons of low socioeconomic status" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228562/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228562/
- walshemj 9y agoOnly works for countries that don't have a large "black" economy and HMRC spends a lot of effort tracking down smuggled tobacco - normally sold in the back bar of the less salubrious pubs.
- copper_think 9y agoHer Majesty's Revenue Collector ?
- twic 9y agoHer Majesty's Revenue and Customs. Roughly speaking, revenue being taxes on what you earn, and customs being taxes on what you buy. There used to be separate departments for each, but they were merged years ago. This was a slightly odd move, as the revenue were people who were good at doing very detailed analysis of paper trails, whereas customs were people who were good at kicking down smugglers' doors.
- Gustomaximus 9y agoMany countries now have rules where the packets of cigarette show people suffering serious health concerns. This is also said to work well. I'm also sure no smoking indoors or on public streets laws works to reduce smoking well too.
- oAlbe 9y agoIt doesn't. A packet cover (yes, they make cigarette packets covers) costs 2 Euros, and smokers don't seem to be concerned about the disgusting images they put on the packets. With all the added benefits that everybody at the table with a smoker gets to enjoy the view of a gangrenous foot with a missing finger or a black lung destroyed by tar and nicotine whenever the smoker pulls out the packet and places it on the table.
- systoll 9y agoThose that are sufficiently concerned tend to stop being, or avoid becoming smokers, so the unconcerned are what remain. Same goes for prices. I think we can both agree that taxation is the better ‘value’ policy [negative costs are hard to beat], but studies such as the described at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396458/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396458/ suggest that generic packaging has positive effects too.
- fjsolwmv 9y agoFor a nonsmoker, the smoker himself is far more disgusting than the picture on the packet. It's a bit backtaking to be reminded that there are still backward places where smoking is legal in public.
- jackvalentine 9y agoIt does. The plain packaging with disgusting imagery as used in Australia has been shown to be effective in reducing youth smoking. The less people try smoking when young, the less continue smoking when older. The tobacco industry's own studies show that their branding is an important part of getting people to start smoking initially.
- 9y ago
- lazyjones 9y ago> Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just because the affordability of everything is falling for them. Greece raised the tax rate on tobacco from 57,5% to 70% in 2010. So this effect was doubled (everything else became more expensive too, wages dropped...).
- jdietrich 9y ago>The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. The only measure that reliably gets people to stop smoking. Lots of other things can reduce the number of people who start smoking, which is at least as important. There's a reasonable evidence base for a large number of tobacco control measures - banning flavoured products, setting minimum pack sizes, banning advertising and sponsorship, mandating plain packaging etc.
- WalterBright 9y agoTwo or three decades back Canada tried high cigarette taxes to reduce smoking. A black market promptly appeared, complete with smuggling across the border and drive by shootings, until the tax was lowered back. (During WW2 which had extensive gas rationing, a black market for that appeared as well, and (you guessed it) drive by shootings.) Of course, today we have the failed war on drugs, with drive by shootings. There are limits to government power attempting to force morality on people.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoThe high cigarette tax works in Australia. Smuggling across the border is a bit difficult being an island and guns are relatively rare.
- WalterBright 9y agoIt's all a matter of how high the taxes are. The higher they are, the more profit there is in smuggling.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoAustralia is pretty high, in Sydney they go for more than $25 a pack. Still, smuggling would require long boats rides and stuff, while Australia is a pretty rule of law place.
- xref 9y agocigarette snuggling sounds like an RJ Reynolds plan to get more kids smoking
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoOops, fixed!
- girvo 9y agoYeah. If you’re going to take the huge risk of importing something illegal here, it might as well be cocaine or heroin et al. That way you make a decent profit for your risk at least.
- afsina 9y agoI don't think so. In Turkey it first seemed working. High taxation caused decline in consumption . Then, inevitably smuggling and tobacco shops that sell open tobacco bloomed. Besides, smokers with lower income got a hit. They cannot quit and smoke anyway. Now there are even more smokers than before.
- ACow_Adonis 9y agoNot that I disagree with you that taxing cigarettes work, but what about Australian examples of additional policies including plain packaging laws, banning on advertising, the graphic health warnings on packs, combined with workplace and hospitality smoking bans?
- kodablah 9y ago> The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Not exactly. A better way to phrase it: "The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make laws around how smoking items can be sold." Whether that law is to require tax, or age, or whatever. In your example, they are laws around requiring extra money be charged when selling something. Whether something works should not be the only factor in its implementation, especially at the state/legal level. Otherwise, you fall victim to the prohibitionist fallacy.
- YeGoblynQueenne 9y agoJust to put some numbers on this, in Greece this summer a pack of 30 g. of rolling tobacco cost €7.20. For comparison, in the UK, the same costs £13.60 or €15.42 - so more than double the money. As others have reported in this thread the tax on tobacco is 70% in Greece. I'm not sure what it is in the UK. The detail to take into account is that Greece produces tobacco locally. So it's going to be cheaper. Bottom line- I'm not convinced it's the price that's making a difference.
- spystath 9y agoGiven that the average wage in Greece is roughly half (or even less) that of the UK I would say they are comparable. Although I partially agree; it's not only the price that affects the consumption of tobacco. It's could also be that there is nothing cool about smoking nowadays.
- burfog 9y agoOther stuff works too. Australia mostly killed branding by enforcing plain packages, and they added images of what smoking can do to you. It worked. Varying the images matters, so that people don't tune them out. It is best to focus on sex appeal: wrinkles, erectile dysfunction, nasty teeth, etc. The next best thing is to focus on the harm to children, both unborn and living in the house.
- perseusprime11 9y agoStill cant understand why we cant simply ban them.
- fjsolwmv 9y agoFundamental civil rights? It's wrong to punish someone for anything beyond harming other people's
- brokenmachine 9y ago> We now know that 53,800 people die every year from secondhand smoke exposure. http://www.no-smoke.org/getthefacts.php?id=13 http://www.no-smoke.org/getthefacts.php?id=13 - the first link I found from a google search for "secondhand smoke kills how many"
- girvo 9y agoBecause that has worked for every other addictive (or not) drug.
- yorby 9y agoIf you raise the price too much, the black market takes over though...